German court bans circumcision for religious reasons

Originally posted by Flavian

Originally posted by detachedindividual

Originally posted by tovenar

Hypocrites.

If it was a tattoo or a piercing, everyone would be raving about artistic expression.

I'm sorry, I'm confused.

Are you suggesting that it is okay to tattoo someone against their will, because it's artistic expression?

The fact of the matter is that adults are making a choice to alter a child without their consent. That is the argument here. This is child abuse, and it would be the same if it were piercing or tattooing. If you did either of those things TO ANOTHER PERSON WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT it is assault, and in the case of a child it is abuse.

You're missing the fundamental fact that this is being done to another human against their will.

Absolutely brilliant way of putting it, thanks.

Obviously though, as you have now basically accused those of a religious bent of child abuse (you haven't actually but im sure some will miss the point), i would strongly recommend reaching for the tin hat and deploying to the bunker......

edit on 26-6-2012 by Flavian because: (no reason given)

It's not an accusation, it's fact.

If you genitally mutilate a child it is child abuse. There are no if's or but's here, and I won't back down on my assertion that those who take a knife to a child under any circumstance other than saving their life through surgery are the scum of the Earth and should be locked away and kept as far from children as possible.

It's fascinating that so many scream about the religious practice of stoning or whipping women, but this practice is allowed, because it's a different religion.

I don't care who wants to debate me on it, whether they are an idiot American trailer trash mother too ignorant to understand the implications of their arrogance or a religious fanatic who thinks his particular brand of sick behavior is more acceptable than that of another religion. There is one fact that none of them can get away from.

Circumcision is against the will of the individual, it is a violation.

Originally posted by tovenar
reply to post by bluemirage5

 

If you ever have any doubts about religion-haters, just remember this thread.

They only accept tolerance because they have to. For now. And all their claims that religion tries to "control other peoples' lives" also describes their own desire to control YOUR life. They don't like you and will support any government that curtails your rights and the expression of your faith.

I don't hate religion, I hate ORGANIZED RELIGION.

I also hate child abuse and mutilation based on religious extremist views.

I also note the derailing of the discussion by those who have no way to debate without bringing in all kinds of other nonsense. We're talking about the rights of children not to be genitally mutilated by their parents against their will, that has nothing to do with being pro-life, or spaying animals.

You guys have clearly shows that you are not able to defend this practice, and so you try to divert the discussion away and paint everyone as something they are not.

Do you or do you not agree that this is an act perpetrated on a child against their will? Yes or no?

It's not a hard question.

Then, as you would like to defend such archaic and barbaric practices under the banner of religion, do you accept that other religions have the right to stone women? Are witch doctors in Africa perfectly within their rights to genitally mutilate girls? Are Islamic extremists perfectly within their rights to blow up an Israeli bus - these are all things excused by religion, just as you are excusing this act using religion.

I would really like to see your response to this, but I'm betting you won't be able to answer without sounding like a complete religious hypocrite.

reply to post by detachedindividual


Starred your posts. Very well written. You're doing the world a big favor by telling it like it is. If only everybody could see the common sense in what you say.

You can really tell alot about girls when this topic comes up. If we hacked off every unattractive bit, most of you females would be walking around with no lips.
Maybe if your man stinks, you should be a better judge of character. You ladies don't exactly smell nice down there.
Some females are so materialistic and superficial, no wonder us men don't want to marry

And now this is being used to attack religion? Wow, how low can you go? Some people don't deserve to vote or have babies, but we will let them, while they try to regulate everyone else.
NAZIS

Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

nice strawman - I thought we were talking about human beings

Actually it is a simple question.

Yes it is a simple question - but it is OT and a transparently obvious attempt at a strawman argument.

And look up what a strawman argument is since you obviosuly have no idea what it is.

I'll ask again.

Is it wrong to spay or neuter a pet?

You can ask as often as you like.

Who said anything about setting them free?? Another strawman

It's not a strawman,

Look up what a strawman argument is since you obviosuly have no idea what it is.

it is a fact that murderers have been given parole and murdered again.

Also irrelevant and a strawman argument.

I got a better idea - let's allow contraception and sex education

Wow, what a completely new and novel idea, let's alert the media!

Because we all know that sex education and contraception ain't allowed.

go look at the original post you are complaining about

Please....

Yes..please go look up the post you're complaining about!

Yeah - and since we've made them lousy irresponsible human beings let's punish them for it!

You mean the unborn babies,

right?

Wrong - like your entire post.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
For those of you against circumcision - that's most of you......

My bet is you don't mind subjecting your baby to plentiful vaccines he/she does'nt need and when the kid becomes a toddler you feed your kids with absolute garbage unfit for even a dog!

Wow, massive sweeping assumptions.. Firstly, say what you like about Vaccinations but the fact of the matter is, and you simply cannot refute it, is that most of us are only alive today because diseases like smallpox, diptheria, measles, polio etc have been all but eliminated in the developed world.

Secondly, I have three kids (all vaccinated and not a single one with any health issues as a result) and they most certainly don't eat "absolute garbage unfit for even a dog!". The fact you are even insinuating this without knowing jack about any of us shows what an infantile mind you have.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
How many young children now have Diabetes 2? It's now a bloody epidemic!

WTF has that got to do with the price of fish? Nothing.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
How many young children are fed unecessary medications? That too is an epidemic!

Not mine, so stop making generalisations.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
How many kids go through unnecessary tonsil and adenoid surgery?

What? Tonsil removal is actually beneficial if you have repeated bouts of tonsillitis, such as myself. They get so infected they are more harm if left in. NOt sure what the hell that has to do with this topic though, as you could argue that is medically necessary and the Germans haven't banned circumcision if it is deemed necessary.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
And how many are pro-choice when it comes to abortion?

Pro choice, in so far as I can do nothing about someone elses body, but just so you know, my ex aborted a baby of mien she was carrying against my wishes, so just be careful about the accusations you're throwing around. If you had said this to me in person, instead of safely behind your computer, I would have decked you.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
Most of you are a bunch of hypocrites; you have your right to opinion as those who are for it but to enforce your anti-circumcision policies on to us parents who have chosen to circumcise our sons (no matter what the reason) better not live in glass houses!

I'm sorry, wanting to mutilate your child's genitals is just sick and it has, in most cases, no actual benefit and plenty of cons. Following your logic to it's conclusion, you would defend a parents right to remove their child s ear lobes, or eye lids, simply because it is "their choice".

It is also ironic that you want people to respect "your choice" with circumcision, but are obviously an anti-choice abortion fanatic. Can't have it both ways.

Apparently none of you realize that circumcision releases some chemical that benefits the child's health.

Further, a parent is in charge of a child until they reach the legal age of adulthood. They should decide.

reply to post by joesomebody


"some chemical"?

Going to need a lot more than that, matey...

Originally posted by joesomebody
Apparently none of you realize that circumcision releases some chemical that benefits the child's health.

Further, a parent is in charge of a child until they reach the legal age of adulthood. They should decide.

edit on 27-6-2012 by joesomebody because: (no reason given)

Which chemical? Never heard that before.

reply to post by stumason

I've heard some stupid ones, but wowza!

For your information, circumcision is magic.

I'm not going to go find the articles, and as such, I figured you were all experts on the subject anyway, considering the bloviating going on in this thread.

So apparently parents are free to abort and murder their children, yet circumcision is a big no no?

reply to post by joesomebody


So basically it's a case of "You don't know, well I'm not going to tell you..."

Roughly translated as "I am talking out of my arse"

If you make a claim, it's up to you to prove it. You can't just say "it releases some chemical or another" and then sit back feeling smug.

And again, what's with the whole abortion thing?

I'm glad my mother decided to get me circumcised as a baby. Here in America, I haven't heard one guy say "I really wish I had my foreskin". Chances are if I didn't already have one, I probably wouldn't have gotten one because of how painful it would be. Now I've been with girls that have been with circumcised and uncircumcised, they prefered circumcised.

reply to post by wardk28


Just like girls will always say "You're the best I've ever been with", "You're the best looking guy", "You're the funniest..."

Get the picture?

reply to post by stumason


No, not really. I don't base meaningless sex on lies.
My folks raised me better than that

reply to post by wardk28


I wasn't saying you lied....

I was suggesting that the women may have said what they thought you wanted to hear...

reply to post by stumason


You might want to do your homework thoroughly before spouting off, I did mine!

Most vaccines kids are given today is not needed nor required and young kids diagnosed with Diabetes 2 because of their lazy fat parents is now at epidemic proportions.....only an idiot will refute that!

Compare the deaths of children because of a vaccine v children circumcised.....I rest my case!

Originally posted by tovenar
reply to post by bluemirage5

 

If you ever have any doubts about religion-haters, just remember this thread.

They only accept tolerance because they have to. For now. And all their claims that religion tries to "control other peoples' lives" also describes their own desire to control YOUR life. They don't like you and will support any government that curtails your rights and the expression of your faith.

You know if you said that about me almost anywhere else it would probably be actionable slander.

I don't care what you believe - you can believe in the flying spaghetti monster, yaweh, allah, buddah, Zeus, thor or anything else for all I care.

I happen to be an atheist, but as long as you dont' shove it down my throat or that of anyone else then you can believe that your little toenail is jesus christ for all I care.

However I despise the efforts of various religions to tell me that they are the only way to salvation or whatever.....

I also happen to think that abortion is wrong - but I know it is not murder because murder is defined in law. AND I am against ANY involuntary mutilation of anybody - whether genital or otherwise.

So thank you for confirming my low opinion of religious nutjobs like yourself, and kindly take your one-dimensional religious bigotry and shove it up your fundamental orifice.

reply to post by wardk28


Every woman I know also agree.

The only idiots in disagreement on circumcisim are uncircumcised men and the very women who go with them and probably have never seen a circumcised man.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


I'm not a very religious person at all. Religion or not, circumcision is tradition in our family and it's part of our way of life and has been for thousands of years.

Who are you to judge those who choose to circumcise our boys?

I'll say it again, there are alot more kids dying because of a jab than a kid dying of circumcision.

There are more kids with severe health problems whose lives are going to be cut alot shorter because of parental abuse feeding them dog food - it's called Diabetes 2. Do you know what Diabetes 2 does to certain organs? Must I educate you ?