Need help choosing my weapon

Ok, I've had a lot of guns in my life, but through swapping and trading I find myself with none at the moment. I'm a doomsayer and expect bad times very soon. I have enough money to buy one good gun. I've narrowed it down to either a Taurus 1911 or a DPMS M4. I'm torn between the two and cannot make up my mind.

Both have obvious advantages and weaknesses. The M4 has firepower. The 1911 has concealability and portability. Both cost about the same. I have had both a 1911 and an AR in the past so I know them well and love them both. In Arkansas we have CC, so that makes me sort of lean toward the 1911. It isn't the best CC gun out there, but in my mind it is a more versatile gun than the smallish handguns. My previous 1911 had GI sights and even at 75 yards it was deadly accurate. On the other hand the M4 is a wicked little machine for a sustained fight..

I'd enjoy reading some opinions on the matter as this may be gun I am stuck with during impending economic doom. I didn't put this in with the doom threads because I'd rather hear from the weapons people on matters concerning weapons.

reply to post by Erectus


What is the purpose of having the weapon? What is it's "mission"?

Self defense under any and all circumstances. To me that probably means the 1911 because an M4 at home won't help much at WalMart or wherever. Remember though, this is a doom weapon and in such a case I'd spend a lot of time on my own land in the country where ranges are intermediate.

Grrr, it's a two weapon world. I haven't the money though.

i prefer the bo-staff.

A straw and some chewed up paper.

Can't go wrong

reply to post by Erectus


I'd probably take a beretta 92 fs, not sure if it is only chambered in 9? I hav a glock 22 .40 sw and a ruger sr-9 took me awhil to figure out the sight on the glock but sems to be dialed in now. check out arsenal firearms dual 1911 acp single or dual trigger , that would stop a car

reply to post by Erectus


You have more experience with the 1911 I take it. I would go with a hand gun first. You mentioned a plan to get a CCW license. Pretty much limits you to a handgun. I don't know the prices you found for those two guns. For the same price, you might be able to get yourself an AK and another type of pistol. You can get some decent pistols for under $300, even less at a gun show. You can probably find a decent AK for $600.

If you are seriously just talking a SHTF situation, then get an M4 type weapon. 223 and 556 ammo will be easier to acquire and you will be using it for both food and defense.

If you are really preparing for that, you need to be saving to acquire what I consider the big 5.

1. A 5.56 caliber M4 tactical style semi-auto rifle - this gives you access to the most abundant tactical ammunition around, the .223 and the 5.56.

2. A 9mm semi-auto pistol, preferably a Glock - This is the most widely used handgun caliber and more spare parts and magazines exist for this than any other, making repair easier if need be.

3. A 22 lr gun, preferably a Henry Survival rifle - you can use this for practice and hunting, easy to bug out with and with subsonic ammunition you can hunt without giving away your location.

4. A 12 guage pump shotgun - great for home defense, and hunting, lots of ammo available.

5. A 357 revolver - this gives you a handgun that has fewer moving parts than a semi-auto so it is more reliable and even inexperienced users can pick it up and fire without training. You have the ability to use 357 and 38 caliber ammo with this.

This gives you the most versatility and longevity of weapons and ammo. You can handle any situation you may need, and you have more than one gun for support if additional people are around.

reply to post by Erectus


i love 1911s but the m4 is much more versatile,good for self defense and it can put food on the table.have you thought about a nice pump action 12 gauge? ak's are the pinnacle of reliability

reply to post by Erectus

For intermediate range I am thinking of picking up a compound bow, half price sale at a local pawn shop, a couple of nice ones for $200. If you dont mind the walk you can retrieve your ammo. and in a shtf scenario is somewhat stealthy. i did just try out a buddys norinco ar-15 that he has all kitted out. worked good for a chinse knockoff

Surplus 45 acp and the rifle of your pocketbooks choice....
You can pick up a shooter for 150$ of some type.....dont go with one gun
If you have to take the long gun because its the one oul nost need......shtf..........
I have rebuilt many a 100$ surplus 45 into a great shooting gun.....pus you can change the caliber and put together extra top ends for it....
Id say 38 super is my favourite in a 1911, extra shot too flat shooting out to 100 ds if you zip em up a bit to ipsc major cal velocity.....

Bleach and vinegar

Every "B.O.B" (bug out bag) Needs to include at least three firearms. A good solid sidearm, a decent rifle in any caliber and a dedicated shotgun.

To limit yourself to just one, is asking for trouble. But I would consider this if it is your only option...

A good gun is only as good as it's ammo. How much can you carry? How much does it weigh? Is it going to be readily available? How much does ammo cost?

A good shotgun is relatively inexpensive and can serve a double duty in both hunting and defense. But shot shells are large and difficult to carry in quantity.

A pistol is mainly only effective for concealing and offers minimal use as a food provider.

I would recommend this.

Buy a used 1911 that can be had for around the $400 mark or a different style pistol that shoots .45acp if you are set on that caliber, and a good little, accurate .22lr and a basic pump 12 guage.

OR:

Buy an entry level pistol and rifle that use the same caliber like 9mm or even 7.62X25 and a cheap single shot shotgun.


Whatever you decide, remember that if it gets as bad as some believe it could, A handful of bullets could hold a lot of value when bartering for things you need...

Let us know what you decide and why...



Either way you can stay around the $700 - $750 mark and have versatility.

You should wait.

When something does happen, you can find both on corpses.

Uzi

cheap and easy to hide. Accuracy is a bit off

I had considered a glock .40 and Kel Tec sub2000 .40 for ammo and mag interchangability. If I bought the Glock used I could come close to my $750 budget.

I can't hardly come off the 1911, though. I've had other handguns, but when I got a Rock Island 1911 I became infatuated with it and actually got into combat style shooting (unnatural for me as I'm a rifle guy). I put 9,000 rounds through it before cracking the cheap cast frame. That gun and I matched up like no other handgun I've ever had. Accuracy was easy and after a few thousand rounds became instinctive at 5-10 yards. I could ignore the sight altogether and focus more on hand hold, wrist and elbow for hitting my target. This may be something that handgunners have done with other guns, but for me only my 1911 ever done that. Admittedly, I've never put so many rounds through any other handgun, so that probably had something to do with it.

Are surplus 1911s still available? I know they can be rebuilt until the end of time. I've read of them going over 100,000 rounds on rebuilds.

I've had an AK. Actually it was a Saiga 308 with aftermarket trigger. It was a cool gun and the AK mechanicals are super simple. I don't think I want an AK in 7.62x39, though.

I'll be on a family farm with others who own guns, too. For hunting there are guns for that. I'm looking for my personal fighting gun.

reply to post by Erectus


I understand the love of 1911's. However, for what your considering, a doomsday scenario and interim concealed carry, they are not the best weapon of choice. They are heavier, larger, carry less ammunition and are not as versatile as modern designs.

A modern design in 9mm or 40 are more reliable, have better sights, hold twice as much ammo, most have adjustable grips, are lighter and have tactical rails for equipping lights or lasers when in the home.

If you are only getting one, your needs dictate a modern handgun, but your infatuation is saying 1911.

ETA: Your present needs cannot be met with a M4 style rifle. However, in a doomsday scenario, one will be highly useful for both food acquisition and stand-off home defense. If you do get a handgun, you should still intend to get the rifle and then a 12 gauge pump shotgun.

Originally posted by Erectus
I put 9,000 rounds through it before cracking the cheap cast frame.

I hate to break it to you, but Taurus builds most of their guns, including the PT1911 with cast parts, as well.
I have to ask, did you do a spring overhaul on your RIA at any time before the frame failed? And was it new when you bought it?

A milspec 1911 is designed to handle quite a beating, thanks to Mr Browning's intuition, but today's ammo is far more punishing than it was those many years ago...

Hotter ammo will shorten the life of a good recoil spring and cause the gun to literally beat itself to pieces.
I would wager that you didn't replace the springs as recommended by most 1911 buffs and builders at the 3-4,000 mark, and if you had your Rock Island would still be alive today.

Just something else to consider. The .40 S&W round is pretty lathargic compared to .38 super, .357 SIG and even 10mm. Look at the ballistics. Some more food for thought...

The .308 is the best due to the fact you can hunt with it and it is a great all around rifle.I would always keep a rifle before a side arm..A man can do wonders with a blade if he has the will.Archery is also a good skill to learn.The 1911 needs to be adjusted to function reliably and accurately.I also must be cleaned effectively.I of course swear by it.

Originally posted by GoOfYFoOt

Originally posted by Erectus
I put 9,000 rounds through it before cracking the cheap cast frame.

I hate to break it to you, but Taurus builds most of their guns, including the PT1911 with cast parts, as well.
I have to ask, did you do a spring overhaul on your RIA at any time before the frame failed? And was it new when you bought it?

A milspec 1911 is designed to handle quite a beating, thanks to Mr Browning's intuition, but today's ammo is far more punishing than it was those many years ago...

Hotter ammo will shorten the life of a good recoil spring and cause the gun to literally beat itself to pieces.
I would wager that you didn't replace the springs as recommended by most 1911 buffs and builders at the 3-4,000 mark, and if you had your Rock Island would still be alive today.

Just something else to consider. The .40 S&W round is pretty lathargic compared to .38 super, .357 SIG and even 10mm. Look at the ballistics. Some more food for thought...

I did go with new spring, original weight spec...though I no longer remember what that was. I shot a lot of +P stuff through it. I theorize that may have contributed to the failure. I figure too that that is just what happens to a near bottom dollar gun. I'm not knocking it though, I liked the Rock Island gun.

I understand the PT1911 has a forged frame. I'm sure many other parts are cast though.

I had thought about the .40 cal handgun/carbine combo, but I abandoned it because the carbine would be underpowered. I don't think the recoil reduction of the .40 carbine over an M4 justifies that choice. The price is nice though. I'm no .40 fan. I've no experience with the 38 super or 357 SIG, but they do seem popular.

I'm liking the idea of an M4 and then trying to find a cheap surplus 1911 and rebuilding it, as mentioned above in a comment. Failing that maybe I could just get a highpoint or something. Either way I'll go overbudget. Hmmm, maybe I can talk the wife into letting me cut off our satellite for a few months.

if you can afford it you should go with a 1911 as you have had much experience with it , but you will need to spend some money to get a good one , or a used one "tuned up", for me a good .45 ready to go would be a Ruger, or glock, nothing but night sights needed on these two.as for rifle or pistol, well, remember what Jeff Cooper said , "a pistol is what you use to fight your way to a real weapon, the Rifle,Queen of the Battle field".The pistol has concealability ,but its really only for up close emergency us, which means DA on the first shot,.A good 308 bolt action rifle w scope can be used out to 600 yrds, and as long as you dont have mutiple enemys charging you at close range for self defence too.a AR or AK will always atract too much attention,whereas the bolt rifle , or 12 ga pump, or 1911, or all 3 together will not. maybee this is a factor to you or not.A high grade AR you can depend on , is not cheap, you can get all 3 i mentioned for the price of a high grade AR.its your life ,your money, your choice.good luck