Masonry, the ultimate lie (keep the discourse civil please)

reply to post by getreadyalready

reply to post by getreadyalready


You stated 'Temperance' as a virtue you related to yourself, and yet you are drunk? Maybe you should also look up the definition of Hypocrisy in a dictionary. Im sorry for your daughter, but bringing that up in a debate as a psychological tool is innapropriate. For the money I dont have any Religion. In relation to your claim about the Crusades, Jihad predates Crusades by centuries. The so named Crusades were a defence campaign against Jihadism and Arab Dictatorship of the planet. Similarly the Arab Trans Sahara slave trade was 3 times larger than the Trans Atlantic one. You simply cannot place the umbrella term of Religion and compare them as the same in terms of crime and immoral acts. You claim to study Platos Math, yet clearly know nothing of Probability and Statistics. You are not very good at this are you? So far It looks like I would be joining a Drinking club for materialists and hypocrits that know very little about God. And added to that I would be expelled by you for refusing to associate with Paedophiles, Polygamists etc. Freemasonry certainly is not for me.

Originally posted by rendezvouswithrama
So far It looks like I would be joining a Drinking club for materialists and hypocrits that know very little about God. And added to that I would be expelled by you for refusing to associate with Paedophiles, Polygamists etc. Freemasonry certainly is not for me.

edit on 28-7-2012 by rendezvouswithrama because: .

i am in no way advocating either side...

in my search for knowledge- could you show me information which proves this as fact?

i am not down playing you assertions as i have no knowledge of the mentioned, on either side

obviously mason will claim bunk...but that is all i hear from non masons...if it is undeniably true...then why would the organization be allowed to continue? understandably if the leaders of all levels of government then they would not shut it down...but if this is as true as you would imply...why would communities allow their buildings and meetings continue to take place?

again, not an attack, just a sincere request for information...

thank you

Originally posted by emsed1

Originally posted by rendezvouswithrama
Appreciate the replies. I cant create topics until I reach 20 posts, so appolagies to the OP if Im going off topic. I have considered joining Freemasonry, but I cant join something if I am not in posession of the facts about it. I would also feel uncomfortable mixing with Muslims. I sent off for a 'Mail Order course' to a similar organisation named the Rose Cross. Maybe Freemasonry have the same courses. You pay the quarterly sub, sign a confidentiality form and receive your degree study material via mail.

Freemasonry doesn't offer anything via mail order. The entire purpose is to be present and experience the degrees in person.

I think associating with Freemasons would cure your discomfort with Muslims. Firstly, no man is ever obligated, or asked, to disclose his faith. The only requirement is a belief in a Supreme Being.

Discussions of particular religious beliefs are forbidden in lodge meetings.

When I first started researching masonry (coincidentally on ATS) with a skeptical viewpoint, I found this site:

Anti-Masonry: Points of View

That cleared up every question I have.

As far as facts I can give you these -

1 - Freemasonry is the world's oldest and largest fraternity, with about 3 million members worldwide.

2 - Masons (mostly through Shriners hospitals donation) contribute on average more than one million dollars per day to charitable causes.

3 - Freemasonry consists of three degrees, which are conveyed through a beautiful symbolic ritual.

4 - The 'secrets' of Freemasonry only include the grips, passwords and obligation. Everything else is fair game for discussion.

5 - The vast majority of men in Freemasonry participate for the social and charitable aspects. A small minority pursue further personal spiritual development through understanding the true meaning of the lessons of Freemasonry.

6 - The tenets of Freemasonry, taught in ritual, include such things as:

- Faith, Hope, Charity
- Brotherly Love, Relief, Truth
- Temperance, Prudence, Justice, Fortitude


I hope this helps.

Why would being physically present at a Lodge be critical to completing the degrees, tracing boards and your evolution? Can you point me to any Peer Reviewed study that would illustrate this?

Originally posted by rendezvouswithrama

I would also feel uncomfortable mixing with Muslims.

it is hard to have a serious discussion with you knowing this...why are you afraid of Muslims? the religion does not promote violence any more or less than Christianity...

extremist do...but even Christians have extremists...

poor form friend...release your fear

and why would being in the lodge have to do with finishing a ceremony? really lol...im not even a mason but i could understand why...

boyscouts cant go from cub scouts to webelos, then webelos to boy scouts with out being present at their place of meeting for the ceremony

thats just one example...many more

i dont like taking sides...but i encourage civil, intelligent debate...and your last post was the exact opposite lol...think about what you asked, the answer provided, and your response...

trolling is completely unproductive my freind

reply to post by JAsay1LOVE


Prove what as a fact? That Freemasons perceive all Religions the same? Or that the Koran permits and Islam legalised Paedophilia, Polygamy, Slavery, Sexism, Stoning, Beheading, Honour Killing, Jihad, Lying etc? Or that Freemasons are involved in similar immoral crimes, whether by guilt by association or otherwise?

reply to post by JAsay1LOVE


Please desist from addressing me any further. I have not trolled anybody or broken any T&C. Your claims are erroneous, devisive and loaded with misqotes and defamation of character.

reply to post by rendezvouswithrama


what about the catholic priest touching their little boys?

wait...thats not a christian religion right?

"christian" politicians who were caught with little boys...having gay sex...trafficing people...trafficing guns and drugs...but they only use "christian" as a cover right?

all religions do practice the same principles...

please understand that you could entirely be right...i dont know...

but prove directly that this is what freemasonry stands for please...again...it could be true...but then again...most founding fathers were masons...many prominent people are masons...

are they so negative because they have power? and money? if that is the reason then i would have to say those claims are made from jealousy

if there are 1000 people....and only 10 are masons...and they hold seats of power...the other 990 people were turned down from admission....

then the 990 say all these bad things about the group that neglected them...it seems like a sore loser

opinions are great...but an unbased opinion is ignorance

i mean no animosity towards you...i just dont understand how they do all these things...and it is "known"... but there is no documentation to directly prove this as such...and if there is...

why are they still aloud to meet and practice in so many place and publicly?

thank you

For the benefit of uninformed users, neither Western Countries, Laws, Human Rights legislation or Christianity permit or legalize any of the above crimes. I was slandered by a 'Worshipful Mason' in this topic for simply having Morals, so I defended my statement for the benefit of others! In fact, a large percentage of Muslims believe the Anti-Mohammed will be a Freemason with the 'One eye' symbollism. I havent stated any slurs to Freemasonry itself, and have remained objective. Maybe I should ask you to prove every statement in the deceased Stephen Knights book 'The Brotherhood' is entirely untrue?

Originally posted by rendezvouswithrama
For the benefit of uninformed users, neither Western Countries, Laws, Human Rights legislation or Christianity permit or legalize any of the above crimes.

i respect our service men very much so...but you are wrong in this aspect...

publicintelligence.net...

ill stick with just the drug pushing angle...they most def do

same reason sodom and gomorrah and babel were destroyed in the Bible...the distribution of drugs by government....

again...i respect our servicemen/women...and hold them in an extremely high regard; however, this doesnt mean they still dont push drugs, promote dictators, slaughter innocent people "collateral damage", and so on so forth

GODS- Guns. Oil. Drugs. Sex.

reply to post by rendezvouswithrama


and please do not say "only a few. not the whole"

would that not also be true for masons?

some do bad things...but not all

some catholic priest penetrated little boys...but not all

so again...what basis does anyone have that these claims you made against the Masons...as a whole...are valid?

reply to post by JAsay1LOVE


The claims are baseless.

A small number of Masons have commited hanus crimes. They were punished within the Order and brought to justice with the law. They are also, no longer Freemasons after being expelled from the Order for the crimes commited.

Many on this websight like to throw accusations around that speak of treachery. It's impossible to attatch these allegations to the reality of what goes in within Freemasonry. It's also absolutely absurd that so many people believe this crap as factual.

reply to post by W3RLIED2



i agree my friend...all groups across the board have individuals who do bad...remember the US Military men whom pissed on dead bodies...purposefully killed innocent...

we do not hold this against the entirety of the armed services (unless your that wacko church group that claims "god hates faggots" "god hates Jews"...you know the group im talking about)

why is it that the masons have such a bad wrap?

could you point me in a direction to attempt to study mason beliefs...i understand secret means secret...i would not wish to offend you, or any mason by asking, but i would like to learn, and attempt to understand

i have a fairly solid grasp of geometry and sacred geometry...but with no resources to fully explore the possibilities of this science...i only know what my interpretations and application are...

i trust myself and my mind more so than any others opinions...but when one only has themselves as a resource...i believe, that their mind can more easily become closed minded, as they have no other contrasting opinion to debate from...if we cannot debate, then we cannot see past our own objectives

i am a student of knowledge. i believe this is why i am here...i am just at a dead end in my pursuit of factual knowledge

thank you for your reply

reply to post by JAsay1LOVE


Phoenix Masonry Internet Museum

Grand Lodge of California

These two are a good place to start. The California GL is my GL, and Pheonix Masonry is loaded with great resources.

Best of luck, bud!

reply to post by W3RLIED2


to clarify my objective...

i understand the beliefs presented by masons on how to act and treat one another...


i mean in terms of geometry and its applications pertaining building...i believe this may be where the secrets lie...i am good at finding meanings and applications...

i just am look to find out where to begin

thank you

Originally posted by W3RLIED2

Best of luck, bud!

edit on 28-7-2012 by W3RLIED2 because: Fix link

thank you my friend...

i appreciate your insight, and guidance

Show me a quote from me that has said Freemasons are guilty of these crimes? A single quote? Meanwhile in reality I stated that these crimes are Koranic and Islamically legalised. And that I would be uncomfortable associating with Freemasonry due to these facts. I was then demonized by a 'Mason' and now I am being conveniently misqoted by other 'Masons', and so would hardly have any faith of any of your claims.

reply to post by W3RLIED2


i have an ignorant...and fairly blunt...question to present-

i have recently been exposed to theories such as this-

saturndeathcult.com...

and when i went to a site you referenced- phoenix masons- the first image i saw was that of the eye-

now i am not one of those whom would cry illuminati and nwo yadda yadda...nor would i claim this to be satanic...

but could the two links i provided share a similar belief system?

please dont see that question...and see that the first link starts with "death cult"...i dont believe either to be satanic...i think satanic is thrown in for sales and site hits

but i was fasinated by the story of saturn as our original sun...and seeing how saturn, jupiter, mars, and the axis mundi aligned when viewed (according to this website)...it struck something deep within my mind and i have yet to unwrap it from around my mind...

i have NEVER spoke to anyone whom had heard of this notion before.. but again...when i read through that entire site- satanism was not the feeling i was left with...

but i was left with a sense of potentially true history...

have you heard of this saturn ideology before? how would you interpret this in conjunction with the symbols often associate to freemasonry?

if that was a series of ignorance, in your mind, then i apologize for my waste of your time. but normally when my mind speaks to me...i at least ask questions

thank you for your time, and replies

Originally posted by rendezvouswithrama
And added to that I would be expelled by you for refusing to associate with Paedophiles, Polygamists etc. Freemasonry certainly is not for me.

edit on 28-7-2012 by rendezvouswithrama because: .

is that not a blanket assertion of freemasonry?

Originally posted by rendezvouswithrama
And added to that I would be expelled by you for refusing to associate with Paedophiles, Polygamists etc. Freemasonry certainly is not for me.

edit on 28-7-2012 by rendezvouswithrama because: .

reply to post by JAsay1LOVE


After reading through your link for a few, the only link I can find right off the bat is that that group has a strong interest in the occult. Aside from that, there is no links to Masonry.

Freemasonry does have teachings about death but not in the same likeness of a 'death cult'. You may be interested to know that a perfect replica of the Temple of Mousolus exists in The Federal City, though.