Jehovah is Zeus. The link!

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Exactly. I read the Babylonian flood story too. I believe you are right.
And lets not forget the other link: Saturn is sometimes referred as "Satan's star". Now, What does Lucifer (Satan) means? Of course we both know it means "The one that carries light". Lucius=light, and ferre=to carry.
Now, Saturn's name in Greek was Kronos. Kronos of course means "time". Now, if you study just a bit of physics, you discover an interesting link: Space-TIME carries light rays. "Kronos" (Time) is "Lucifer" (carries the light).

reply to post by Nightchild


Yeah! I think this could be the answer.

Originally posted by BlueMule
Jung would probably say that Jehovah and Zeus are different manifestations of the same archetype of the collective unconscious.

Yeah. And Freud says that everything that is long is a representation of the penis. I mean, really.

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
The letter to the church at Pergamos (also referred to as Pergamum) "I know where you live--where Satan has his throne. Yet you remain true to my name. You did not renounce your faith in me, even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, who was put to death in your city--where Satan lives." Revelation 2:13

Pergamos had the alter of Zeus. Which was moved to Berlin.

Guess what replica Obama gave an address from?

www.fivedoves.com...

Very good observation! This contradicts my theory but I like the fact that you supported your claim with facts, so I definitively consider your opinion.
Jesus knew where the Throne of Satan was, and He pointed us toward Zeus's altar... It makes me wonder.
A star for your input, mate.

reply to post by milkyway12


Wow. I should call myself Zeus!

reply to post by swan001


I think you're confusing Roman and Greek mythologies. In early Roman mythology (borrowed from Greek mythology) Saturn was associated with Cronus. In pure Greek mythology though, Cronus along with all of the other Titan generation of deities, represent elements of time.

Cronus, as the chief Titan, represented time in relation to the harvest: time which either sustained, or devoured life.

Beneath Cronus was the Titan Oceanus, who represented the ebb and flow of the tides, which during flood season was an adequate measure of seasonal changes.

Hyperion, as the Titan of distant light, represented solar time, or the passage of day to night to dawn.

Crius, the Titan of the earth's pole star represented the seasonal constellation alignments, which were yet another way to represent the passage and telling of time.

Iapetus was the Titan of mortal life-spans, or the existence of humans for their short times on the earth. This is, obviously, a way of telling time, as generations were often used in ancient days to discuss how long ago something was.

Finally, Coeus is, scholarly, believed to have simply been added in to create 12 Titans for the 12 Olympians to replace. His Titan duties are vague, and most believe he just represents the Golden Age of the Titans, and nothing more.

All of the female Titans were, essentially, just female versions of the males. So all 12, together, represent measurements of time.

Lucifer (the light-bringer) is actually representative not of physical light, but illumination. Rome had several deities (again borrowed from Greece) to represent the sun, light, fire, dawn, day, stars, etc. Lucifer is representative of wisdom, understanding, and knowledge; man's light.

I still agree with the concept that Yahweh/YHVH is a pagan deity though.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by swan001

Yeah. And Freud says that everything that is long is a representation of the penis. I mean, really.

Don't be so quick to diss this one. Zeus and YHVH do both fit the archetype of the King of the Gods. This archetype is called Chesed in the Qabalistic Tree of Life, and represents the order, and glory of manifestation. Other deities of a similar nature include Marduk, Enlil, Zeus, Odin, YHVH, Allah, etc. They are all from a similar unconscious archetype. But that is not why they are the same.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


I must say that your way of thinking reminds me of a certain philosophy... I think your post makes sense, but I respectfully disagree with the final opinion. But there is a possibility that you are right. Are you from a masonic lodge? I talked with some masons and you remind me of one.

reply to post by swan001

I must say that your way of thinking reminds me of a certain philosophy...

My post is based on subjective interpretation, and analysis, of classical mythology. My own study of Greek mythology comes primarily from the Folio Society and Robert Graves anthology The Greek Myths. I've also used a series of encyclopedias of mythology to buffer it.

I think your post makes sense, but I respectfully disagree with the final opinion

That is quite alright.

Mythology is meant to be subjective. It will always mean something a little different, from person to person. My interpretation of the Titans as representative of Earth cycles (seasons, floods, harvests, the axial precession, etc) is not the only one either. Most students of Greek myth simply see the Titans as elemental figures. To each their own.

Even concerning Lucifer, as the "bringer of light," I have come across several interpretations before. As a figure who brings culture to the people, via enlightenment he is represented as a Heavenly Figure, much like Adapa from Sumer. As a representation of the Devil in Christian mythology he represents everything that Christianity disliked: enlightened masses, literacy, the furthering of scientific advancement, and removing the authority of the corrupted Church.

Saturn, to me, however, never has the interpretation of being "Satan's Star," because the "Morning Star" (as Lucifer, and many before him have been called) has always been Venus in mythology. Saturn, as a planet, is typically the planet of solidity, steadfastness, and formation. The idea of the world-come-into-being. Perhaps that is why Lucifer is considered to be the Prince of the Earth. I cannot say for certain though.

As for my conclusion, that is just the conclusion arrived at through classical mythology.

Are you from a masonic lodge? I talked with some masons and you remind me of one.

I am a member of the local chapter of Free Masons in my town, yes. I never pursued it further than as a casual membership to the Order though. I am familiar with a majority of their teachings, and rites though. Not that I agree with them all though (I have a bit of trouble believing in a Great Architect of the universe).

I prefer to let my other areas of study (ancient and modern mythology; comparative religion and syncretism; Theosophy and Hermeticism; Jungian psychology; etc) lead the way in my interpretation and analysis of myths and spirituality.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by manna2


Excellent point. If I may humbly add that Websters supports this statement you have made. No letter "J" much prior to 1650 A.D. of the KJV and per Websters some 500 years ago and no JJJJeh sound in the language of the people of YAH.


Where does the name Jehovah come from? Religions of this world agree that Yod Heh Waw Heh or YHWH is the most ancient understanding by way of existing manuscripts that predate the more modern A.D. Greek Latin names like Iehovah which became Jehovah and Iesous to Iesus which became Jesus. KJV went from IeSous to Iesus to Jesus in later versions. If there is only one Name by which we may be saved does this not pose a problem at all for the Christian religions of this World?

YAH is universally known and even said in most churches by way of the Praise Statement "halleluYAH" (JAH).

In the spelling of JeHovaH the first H is proceeded by "e" yet the last H is proceeded by "a" yet this has no consistent reasoning. It is understood in recent years however that the vowel-consonant of the ancient YAHudi language existed and is consistent with the "a" before the H. So it would at the very least be YaHovaH. However what about the oV. Well "V" as a letter and the sound VVVVVVah is a latin influence and not of the tongue of the YAHudi people. The actual History of the letter V as we know it today and as it relates to Waw of YH"W"H is as follows: UU to W to VV to V. Yet the sound changed along with the actual understandings of the letter. Therefore if we are in keeping with YaH with also the ending aH we then put in the middle of it uU or more modern uW to understand YAHUWAH and the sound of it as it was. YAH-WHO-AHHHH.

Also little know that there are masonic jesuit roots of Jehovah and Jesus also. Strong's Concordance #1943 defines hovah as mischief and ruin. Ie has a meaning and so does hovah and so does sous or sus. Constantine was well aware of the understandings but we are not as much today. In fact most believe a name does not matter... Really? Well anyone that says that is deceiving themselves because names do matter and if you do not think so, the next time you see someone of a different race not your own, call them by a slang name that is derogatory and see how they respond.... Do you think our Creator will be forgiving of those who make His Name as Unimportant? In the 10 Commandments it says "I cannot hold him sinless who makes My Name YAHUWAH as unimportant"!

So who is this latin based ruinator? Well the name IeSous-IeSus or now JeSus with its name Sous from Zeus makes it very clear does it not? Sus name was put into many names back then. In the days of YAHUWAH's People they also put YA, aH, uW into their own names and the names of their lands such as HimalaYA(H)'s, Africa(H), KenYA(H) AmericAH, EliYAH (JaH) and ALL the true names of The Prophets of YAHUWAH all agree in declaring His Great Name by way of their own name to honor Him! Yet those who were aligned with and worshiped the Zeus or Sous or SUS showed their support by putting SUS into important names such as EpheSUS, HerodeSUS, DionySUS, PegaSUS and yes sadly.... JeSUS.... Thank you very much Constantine of the Jesuit ordo... Do you see why scriptures warned of great deceptions!

So do names really matter? Anyone who reads scriptures, even the twisted Jesuit Scriptures of KJV cannot hide the fact that "THE NAME" is mentioned over and over as being important, having power and must be honored and treated as sacred. That in THE NAME comes Salvation alone... yes it is very important and all those who have been deceived will be revealed the Hidden Manna and allowed to show whom they serve.

So in summary if there is only one Name by which we may be saved per Scriptures then we realize that YAHUWAH the Most High and His Son YAHUWAH who is our Creator both agree in their names in this statement. There is only one Name above all other names that YAHUWAH had and also gave to His Son. AmaniYA!

aHleleuWYaH - PRAISE BE TO YAHUWAH!

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


That is a great field to study, mythologies. I feel that all mythologies from the world emerged from one (or a series of) event that happened before -3000. They all basically refer to similar figures: A super-God, an Earth goddess, some smaller gods for other concepts. Although the concept of, lets say, the Earth goddess may be a result of early civilization to idolize their mother, projecting that concept to one Goddess that nurtures Earth and is the queen of Life, and, lets say, that Zeus/Odin/The Great Spirit may be a result of these civisation's fear and awe for their father, projecting that concept unto one powerful God that sometimes feels love and sometimes destructive anger, there is nonetheless a great possibility that those two concept may instead have emerged from an encounter with outside, more advanced beings, thus explaining why all civilizations portrays the Gods as living in the sky (except, of course, Poseidon that lived in the seas and Hades that lived in the under-world). Chinese, Sumer, Native Americans, everywhere the same concepts are repeated, living no room for individualized psychological construction (which would lead to different concepts of God).
BTW I am an atheist. I studied particle physics. Nice to meet you.

reply to post by swan001


There are certainly overlaps in mythology. But, they go deeper than just a series of events/experiences which every single culture adheres to, because the first one did. There are a series of mythological outlines present in Middle-Eastern mythology for sure.

The most common being a three-tier system of existence. The ruling deities live in the Heavens (sky), the terrestrial deities who tackle mundane tasks live on the Earth, and the Cthonic, afterlife deities live within, or beneath the Earth in the Underworld. Beyond this, only a small smattering of concepts cross all lines. The Celestial Goddess and the Earth Goddess; the Dying-and-Rising deity; the Ruling God. Those are about it.

What you have instead, are focuses on a variety of topics. In Sumer the focus was on vegetation, agriculture, crops, and farming. All of their myths (the Sacred Marriage of Inanna and Dumuzi; the Descent of Inanna; the Creation of Man; the Deluge; etc.) were all focused on crops, and harvests. Even the "Seven Who Decree Fate" (the Lords of Sumer) are all involved in agricultural associations: Anu is the All-Seed which allows life to exist. Enki is the waters of the Earth which feed the plant life and vegetation. Enlil is the storm-lord, and King of the Gods who waters the Earth from the Heavens. Utu as the sun represents the life-granting rays and heat and nutrients of the sun. Nanna as the moon is the lunar harvest cycle. Ninhursag is the fertile earth herself. And Inanna is the divine feminine, and the one who "eats" plants to learn their properties, and in mixing them creates cross-blended seeds. All agricultural.

Meanwhile, their neighbors in Egypt have almost no mythology detailing agriculture, crops, or harvests. Instead, their mythology is entirely solar, and based on resurrection themes in relation to the sun's daily birth, life, decay, and journey through the Underworld. All of their mythologies inevitably settle upon the birth of Horus (the light of the sun), Re (the sun as a giver of life), Khepra-Re-Atum (the resurrecting sun), or Amun-Re (the All-Pervasive Sun). The Ogdoad (Creation of Eight) ends in the Cosmic Egg being laid by Thoth, and the Young Horus being born. The Ennead (Group of Nine) with the Set-vs-Horus myth, and the myth of Isis and Osiris is heavily focused on the salvation and reunification of Egypt due to Horus (the life-providing sun) conquering Set (the inhospitable desert).

While in Greece, the later age (Olympians) are all highly focused on human qualities. Unlike the Titans, who I pointed out represented natural cycles on the Earth, the Olympians are sensualists, warriors, artificers, poets and prophets, vintners, hunters, etc. representing not natural cycles, but human qualities. The children of the Titans as well, like Pan the satyr, and Aesculapius the healer, are also very human in nature and quality. The mythology has definitely moved from agricultural in Sumer, to solar and royalty-based in Egypt, to human in Europe.

Similar mythological concepts do continue to exist though.

In Sumer the Sacred Marriage between Inanna and Dumuzi was to grant kingship. A King (Dumuzi) was chosen, and wed to the patron goddess of the city-state (Inanna), to notarize his right to rule the lands. In Egypt this same Sacred Marriage exists between Isis and Osiris, but now the foundation has changed to the Cult of Death and Resurrection. The deceased is now being wedded to the goddess to ensure his resurrection and continuation in the Afterlife. Then, in Greece, the Sacred Marriage is tainted by Hades, who kidnaps Persephone and tricks.forces her into living with him in the Underworld. The Greek myth is then about Persephone's attempt to escape from this clause. Same myth, different focus and destination.

I can't be sure what it all means though. Maybe it is all influenced by a truly divine hand. All I know, is that it's danged interesting, and gives you a much greater appreciation for the mental and creative faculties of early man when you study them.

~ Scribe

P.S., I'm an Alekaite. I studied comparative religions, ancient history, mythology, and my focus was as an English major. Nice to meet you as well.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Very interesting indeed. Your knowledge is very impressive. What's an Alekaite?
I Have observed, on my point of view, that more is a civilization is advanced, more the number of gods in that civilization is diminished. Christians have only one major God, now, and communism/atheism (our future) have no god. I see a link with the entropy principle.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

Wandering Scribe, you beat me to the punch! Very well said, and all true. All Roads lead to Ancient Sumer, and it's past time Christians came to realize this. The Annunaki created humankind, and Humankind saw them as Gods. The practice continued all through history, but the names were changed to reflect different languages and customs. Will the Annunaki return one day? Perhaps they will. Then, on that day, all will know.

reply to post by swan001


I think that the advancement of a society comes less from the number of deities, and more from what those deities represent, and encourage. Monotheism has, in my opinion, only slowed down the advancement of the human species.

The Christian Dark Ages, the Crusades, the Inquisition. The locking up, or killing, of early supporters of scientific theory, like Galileo. Christianity's modern war on science, their attempt to reinstate creationism as the origin of all life. Even (and I don't know if you're American, or not) the Texas Republican's new goal of doing away with critical and higher thinking, because it moves us away from traditional Biblical values. The Jews are a little bit better, as they're much more self-restricted; keeping their faith to themselves. Muslims however, can be very much akin to their Christian brethren. Jihads, Holy Wars, suicide bombing, cutting off communication of any anti-Islamic media, and the like.

I can agree that the atheistic way is the truest, most advanced society can become at this point in time. But I cannot see Monotheism as having contributed anything that society wouldn't have done without them, much sooner. Consider the following:

Egypt pioneered the mathematics of geometry, as well as the studies of astronomy and alchemy (which developed into chemistry). They also pioneered law codes, and human rights. They divided people into classes by need, over skin color or gender. They were also the first great architects, creating the Sphinx, pyramids, Valley of the Kings, and other monuments which have stood for roughly 6000 years. Egypt had, roughly, 3000 known and commonly worshiped gods. Plus an addendum of thousands more tutelary, and lesser-known deities.

Sumer and Babylon were the first to use multiplication, invented a consistent writing system (hieroglyphics developed into writing, but began as pictographs). The Mesopotamian's also studied astrology and combined it with astronomy to map the route of heavenly bodies like Venus and the Moon. They're also known for sculptures, and carvings as well. Wine and alcohol also found their origin in Mesopotamia, where it was known as the elixir of the gods. Irrigation, the use of the hoe, and much of pastural agriculture arose from Sumer as well. The Law Code of Hammurabi, also, stands as the first universal Law system of an entire land (Egypt's law code was more like the 10 commandments, relating to living a proper life for judgement in death). Alongside the "Seven Who Decree Fate," Mesopotamia as a whole, possessed innumerable deities (thousands to be sure).

Greece, in it's pagan and atheistic turns, is responsible for the recording of history, the advancement of logic, reason, ethics, and language. They're also the first real philosophers, and scientists (by our modern standards). Their breakthrough in math (like the Pythagorean Theorem; the discovery and calculation of Pi) and breakthroughs in sea travel and machinery (see Archimedes) were astounding. They even knew that the Earth was round. Medicine, writing, architecture, the Greek Adonis Body in art, warfare (Athens and Sparta), the use of precious metals and stones... on and on. The Muslims recovered and reinstated so much Greek scholarly work after the Fall of Greece. Likewise, I don't need to point out the sheer number of gods present in the 13-or-so generations of Greek polytheism.

Those are just three deity-oriented cultures who pushed us countless ages ahead in scientific, mathematics, biologic, and other avenues of modern thought. Of course, they had their shortcomings too. But, every culture does. Where they had people who believed lightning was Zeus's rage; we have people who believe the Earth is flat, 4000 years old, and that hurricanes are God's wrath.

To each their own, ha ha.

~ Scribe

reply to post by autowrench


Thanks for the compliment, Autowrench.

The Annunaki, actually, did not have a hand in the creation of humans. That is a misinterpretation from later. The Annunaki are the Lord of the Earth, or, the second-generation deities who did earthly tasks. They're the ones who got upset with the "Seven Who Decreed Fate" because they were tired of working. Anu, Enki, Enlil, Ninhursag, Nanna, Utu, and Inanna were not of the Annunaki though.

Humans were created from clay in the Sumerian account. In this myth Enki and Ninhursag, being Father Sea and Mother Earth engage in a contest. Ninhursag will make seven beings with some kind of short-coming, and Enki will give them a role so they are worthy of life. Enki succeeds all seven times. Then the tables turn, and Enki can make seven, which Ninhursag will give jobs to. Enki makes one, and it is completely unable to do anything itself. Ninhursag cannot solve the problem, as it cannot hold anything, write anything, speak, or move itself. Frustrated she gives up, and Enki gives it to Ninhursag's seven beings to raise. Thus, the first baby, and seven humans, were created, and the first family began. This is, possibly, a hint that we're native to the Earth.

In the Babylonian account humans are created from clay, blood, and spittle. The cosmic savior Marduk, slays Tiamat the chaos-serpent, and her champion Qingu. Then, taking some of Tiamat's flesh, Qingu's blood, and his own spittle, Marduk mixes them with an empty clay shell and makes humans. In this account, the Anunnaki (children of Anu) were upset at having to do all of the heavy work for the Higher Gods. Marduk fastened man to replace the burden, so the Anunnaki did not have to do so much work.While there is room for "genetic modification" or panspermia in this account, I don't know if I quite believe it though.

I guess only time will tell.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


People always bring up the crusades and inquisition to present christianity in a negative way but they always fail to mention that those actions have nothing to do with what Christ teached. It's even more weird when i see freemasons mentioning those things while you admire and respect the knights of templar and those knight did participate in the crusades.You've even given de Molay's name to an organization for boys.
I could use the very same way of thinking you used to present anything i want as bad.

That's pretty much what i wanted to point out,i could start arguing with you about the rest you've said but i know it wont lead to anything, Know though that i used to be an atheist myself and i also used to say the things you say,such as "christianity holds humanity back instead of helping it","it doesn't like literacy","it's only good to keep people dumb and scared" etc. So,if your first thought when reading my reply was that i have a whole different mindset and things like that,remember that i once was on the same tracks you are right now.

By the way,someone probably will ask so i better save us time by saying straight off the bat that i'm not a christian,i'm afraid i can't (and shouldn't) call myself one.

reply to post by Oceanborn


Considering that Jesus is absent from the picture, the only frame of reference we have for weighing the value of Christianity is from the Christians themselves, and the things recorded down in the Bible. Christians are supposed to represent the values of Christ, and the worldview presented in the Bible. Unfortunately, the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Christian dark ages, the modern war against equal rights for homosexuals, and the tirade against abortion and allowing a woman full control of her own body, as well as groups like the Westboro Baptists are all representations of modern Christianity.

You may not want to lump the Catholic Church, the Young Earth Creationists, the Ku Klux Klan, or the Westboro Baptist group in with Christianity, but go ahead and try to tell the Pope, or Fred Phelps that they aren't representing Christianity, and see how well they agree with you.

The reality of the situation remains: Christianity is a religion, and the practice of it is subjective to the individual. None of the groups I listed above would ever be caught dead saying they're not Christians. Instead, they would say that you're not a "real Christian," because you're not accepting the Bible as literally as you should be, or some such.

Concerning Jesus, a lot of people like to tote the "peace and love" left-wing Jesus image. After all, Christianity is supposed to be the religion of love. However, like their Islamic brethren who are the religion of peace... by suicide bombing, and oppressing women, etc., Jesus has another message which Christians absolutely love to overlook. You can find this message in the Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 5:17-19

Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place. For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

He also says so in Luke 16:17

It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.

So, the reality is, that all of the horrible things from Leviticus, and all of the negative acts committed in the name of God during the Old Testament are not only supported by Jesus, but even encouraged. If you are a champion of the Old Testament's racist, pro-slavery, bigoted, sexist, and misogynistic ways then you will be crowned as great in Heaven.

New Age pop-spiritualists, and "Neopagan Christians" (they exist! I'm just as surprised as you) like to try and gloss over Jesus' less admirable actions, and associate Him with a purely peaceful, and loving message. This is a false facade though. Jesus is the Messiah of a religion. His entire message was one of discrimination, because if you did not agree with, or follow Him, then you were cast out from the Holy Kingdom.

I too began as a Catholic (by birth), and became a "born again" when I joined the Evangelical church in my town, I tried to understand, and even support the Christian way when I was young. But my moral compass would not let me do so. I came to see the corruption, and judgement-based mentality of Christianity as a whole. So I left it behind.

That doesn't mean I'm an atheist though. I'm just not a Christian.

~ Wandering Scribe

Christ is not absent,His Word is still with us.

What can i say?I misjudged you and the blame is on me.I actually thought i could get a sincere reply and that you weren't biased.


Have it your way.

reply to post by Oceanborn


I do have a bias, for sure. I am of the mentality that Christianity is neither loving or peaceful, nor enlightened. It is, as with the messages of the Buddha, Moses, Muhammad, Zarathustra, L. Ron Hubbard, Adi Da, and others, a religion with an intent, and it's own mechanism of discrimination, short-comings, and vile activities to its name.

And yes, Christ' Word is certainly still with us. It can be found in the 66 books of the Bible. As well as the entirety of the Biblical Apocyphya.

~ Wandering Scribe