The Know How

I dont think U.S., Russia, or China know how to go to war with each other.

A superpower doesn't know how to attack another superpower.

What do you think?

A superpower hasn't attacked another superpower yet...

Nor will they?

Something that makes you go, hmmm.

reply to post by WarJohn

Plenty of times over history has it happened. Greek states vs Persia. Rome vs. Carthage. All the wars of the 18th and 19th century that involved the superpowers of the times (most often England vs. France). Then of course, all of the superpowers in 1914 and again in 1939.
Even during the Cold War, there were multiple times that the USA and USSR came VERY close to a hot war. And of course they had proxy wars all over the globe.
During times of economic hardship, demand for resources, and international tension, it doesn't take much for a spark to ignite the fuel. Not saying it is definite, but I wouldn't assume that just because the Cold War never got hot, that modern superpowers will never fight. In fact, looking at the long run of history, it is much more likely that they will. I hope not. We have much more to lose than Russia or China.

It certainly seems that everyone is poised to do it; must be an illuminati date they have to overcome first.

Probably momma reptile calling and asking for everyone to quiet down until after the Olympics.

I doubt we will be able to destroy the earth.Someone always stops it.Either a person or event always stops it from happening because nobody who actually does things, as opposed to those who get ideas,actually wants it to happen.

The United States is only nation on earth that trains for that level of conflict. The command and control, doctrine and logistics of a major global conflict along with global power projection are large parts of what make the US a global power and not a regional power like China and Russia. The Russians may still have some of the old Soviet doctrines lying around but, they would be of little use with the huge decline in the Russian Armed forces. They are mostly geared toward the threat of a growing China and minor conflicts within new states of the old Soviet Union. China is having a hard enough time on getting its armed forces in shape enough to just be a regional power and dealing with its closest threats Russia, India, RoC, Japan, South Korea, ASEAN ect.

I think people have a hard time understanding that China and Russia have little to no power projection beyond their own borders. While smaller in size both France and the UK have can project power better than China or Russia. They however are limited to small expectionary forces mostly geared for minor operations in third world nations either propping up a local gov or helping foriegn nationals escape a hostile enviroment. Those abilities are beyond both Russia and China who with most of the planet count on The US/NATO/EU to get people out.

So to sum up. Russia and China are regional powers and that is what they design their military to deal with. The US is a global power and so its military is geared towards that.

reply to post by MrSpad


What's surprised me is the seeming number of people that believe China has the whole world at its feet. Don't get me wrong, I don't think China is in *bad* shape, but they have problems like everyone else does with economy, politics, balancing guns and butter, manufacturing or consumerism...

China aint airlifting crap. They have one defunct aircraft carrier with no planes. The US has 13! China would be a force to be reckoned with IN ITS BACKYARD but then again SO WOULD A LOT OF COUNTRIES!!

CHINA STILL CANNOT PROJECT POWER IN ANY MEANINGFUL WAY.

Originally posted by BobM88
reply to post by MrSpad

 

What's surprised me is the seeming number of people that believe China has the whole world at its feet. Don't get me wrong, I don't think China is in *bad* shape, but they have problems like everyone else does with economy, politics, balancing guns and butter, manufacturing or consumerism...

Originally posted by BobM88
reply to post by MrSpad

 

What's surprised me is the seeming number of people that believe China has the whole world at its feet. Don't get me wrong, I don't think China is in *bad* shape, but they have problems like everyone else does with economy, politics, balancing guns and butter, manufacturing or consumerism...

Indeed China has a long hard road ahead. Their biggest asset is also their biggest problem. Population. That low wage population has given the ability to make stuff cheap and that drives the economy. However those people see China getting rich and want a piece of the pie. Low wages and long hours are not something they will continue to accept. And that is when China's economy is going to have to change. And that as Japan learned is not easy.

Superpower or not

Its their nukes who make the difference
thats why the US know fully well they can destroy or conquer any country
who DONT have nukes

There are 5 members whom we may see that will pop up and declare the great US demise.I don't know why they seem to believe beyond any logic that we are crashing down and China will destroy us economically and militarily with all evils done monetarily laid at our feet.We are also trying to dominate the world.
I don't follow such thinking or why they believe so.The tactics and strategy would be completely different and we wouldn't have a civil affairs unit or spend a dime for infrastructure support.
That being said we can do it if we have to.I just know we don't

Originally posted by princeofpeace
China aint airlifting crap. They have one defunct aircraft carrier with no planes. The US has 13! China would be a force to be reckoned with IN ITS BACKYARD but then again SO WOULD A LOT OF COUNTRIES!!

CHINA STILL CANNOT PROJECT POWER IN ANY MEANINGFUL WAY.

Err... The USA only has 11 Carriers not 13. They have a few coming off the production line but they aren't ready for anything except looking bad ass in the docks.

That said, China still has about 5,000 Fighter Jets. I don't think you Carrier Groups can carry that many even combined.

What I think will happen if/when war kicks off is this:

- Russia and China will introduce conscription and drive their numbers up while Iran does all the real fighting.
- Russia will shut off its gas exports to Europe and collapse any and all EU battle groups.
- China will start posing and flexing its muscles while North Korea threatens the South.
- The US will commence a bombing campaign of Iran and Syria while simultaneously backing Taiwan and S. Korea/Australia.
- Iran and Syria will get drawn into fighting with Israel, Saudi and other US allies.

After a couple months of fighting a ceasefire will be signed which limits Iran and Syria's power but gives China and Russia and nice chunk of oil.

Hey presto, Russia and China emerge stronger while the West will have used up a vast store of its weapons and manpower in a bid to lock down Iran, Syria and N. Korea...

-----

TBH, I highly doubt there will be any fighting between the EU/US and the SCO (Shanghai Co-operation Organization), it will just be very costly for the West afterwards.

Russia and China will come out on top by sitting around doing nothing while Western power declines.

Originally posted by Trajan

Originally posted by princeofpeace
China aint airlifting crap. They have one defunct aircraft carrier with no planes. The US has 13! China would be a force to be reckoned with IN ITS BACKYARD but then again SO WOULD A LOT OF COUNTRIES!!

CHINA STILL CANNOT PROJECT POWER IN ANY MEANINGFUL WAY.

Err... The USA only has 11 Carriers not 13. They have a few coming off the production line but they aren't ready for anything except looking bad ass in the docks.

That said, China still has about 5,000 Fighter Jets. I don't think you Carrier Groups can carry that many even combined.

What I think will happen if/when war kicks off is this:

- Russia and China will introduce conscription and drive their numbers up while Iran does all the real fighting.
- Russia will shut off its gas exports to Europe and collapse any and all EU battle groups.
- China will start posing and flexing its muscles while North Korea threatens the South.
- The US will commence a bombing campaign of Iran and Syria while simultaneously backing Taiwan and S. Korea/Australia.
- Iran and Syria will get drawn into fighting with Israel, Saudi and other US allies.

After a couple months of fighting a ceasefire will be signed which limits Iran and Syria's power but gives China and Russia and nice chunk of oil.

Hey presto, Russia and China emerge stronger while the West will have used up a vast store of its weapons and manpower in a bid to lock down Iran, Syria and N. Korea...

-----

TBH, I highly doubt there will be any fighting between the EU/US and the SCO (Shanghai Co-operation Organization), it will just be very costly for the West afterwards.

Russia and China will come out on top by sitting around doing nothing while Western power declines.

I think something that confuses people in numbers. Numbers of men, numbers fighters etc. China's numbers are large but the military is old, not mobile and set up to fight along fronts where the enemy also has large old non mobile forces (Russia, India, Vietnam). Now of course China would like to swtich to smaller high tech mobile force but the cost is extreme.

As for your scenerio why would China or Russia bother with any of it. They do now because it costs nothing but, if you think they would risk everything for nations cause them nothing but headaches you are fooling yourself.

US will have 13 very soon. But STILL we have 11...China has 1. How would they get their planes to the US? At least the US HAS carrier groups.

Originally posted by Trajan

Originally posted by princeofpeace
China aint airlifting crap. They have one defunct aircraft carrier with no planes. The US has 13! China would be a force to be reckoned with IN ITS BACKYARD but then again SO WOULD A LOT OF COUNTRIES!!

CHINA STILL CANNOT PROJECT POWER IN ANY MEANINGFUL WAY.

Err... The USA only has 11 Carriers not 13. They have a few coming off the production line but they aren't ready for anything except looking bad ass in the docks.

That said, China still has about 5,000 Fighter Jets. I don't think you Carrier Groups can carry that many even combined.

What I think will happen if/when war kicks off is this:

- Russia and China will introduce conscription and drive their numbers up while Iran does all the real fighting.
- Russia will shut off its gas exports to Europe and collapse any and all EU battle groups.
- China will start posing and flexing its muscles while North Korea threatens the South.
- The US will commence a bombing campaign of Iran and Syria while simultaneously backing Taiwan and S. Korea/Australia.
- Iran and Syria will get drawn into fighting with Israel, Saudi and other US allies.

After a couple months of fighting a ceasefire will be signed which limits Iran and Syria's power but gives China and Russia and nice chunk of oil.

Hey presto, Russia and China emerge stronger while the West will have used up a vast store of its weapons and manpower in a bid to lock down Iran, Syria and N. Korea...

-----

TBH, I highly doubt there will be any fighting between the EU/US and the SCO (Shanghai Co-operation Organization), it will just be very costly for the West afterwards.

Russia and China will come out on top by sitting around doing nothing while Western power declines.

reply to post by princeofpeace


Yes the US will have 13 in a short while but that wasn't what you said. You said they have 13 Carriers but they don't. They only have 11.

What makes you even think China will launch an invasion if you go to war? They don't need to. Thy can simply launch hundreds of their ICBMs at the US and when your carrier groups get in range they can just fire a shedload of missiles at those massive targets.
Pretty soon your $9b ships aren't worth anything.

China's airforce may be old but numbers will overwhelm every defense.