This may be why people don't like illegal immigrants

I just read this article from the Seattle Times on Obama's new immigration policy. Here is a quote from it:

Jonathan Perez, 24, said the latest announcement isn't enough to move him or six other activists out of an Obama campaign office in Los Angeles where they have been holed up since Thursday.

They're demanding an executive order to halt deportations of young people who would be eligible for the DREAM Act if it passed.

The biggest problem with Obama's latest announcement, Perez said, is that students will need to identify themselves to immigration authorities - with no guarantee they'll get a work permit.

"We want something that is actually going to stop all of our deportations," said Perez, a native of Colombia who lives in Montebello, Calif. He said immigration authorities don't consistently follow a directive issued last year to focus more on serious criminals when making decisions about deportation, and worries the new policy is equally vulnerable.

Perez said he and others will continue protests at Obama campaign offices across the country until the president issues an executive order ending deportations for those who would qualify for the DREAM Act. "We're going to stand here and make sure they can't come to our community trying to get votes ... while they continue to deport millions of people," he said.

Source

1. Jonathan Perez is an interesting character. He's "holed up" in an Obama campaign office, which implies he's been asked to leave but won't.

2. He's part of a group that's demanding the President of the U.S. write an Executive Order that bypasses U.S. law.

3. He has a "problem" with the U.S. President's current Executive Order because it offers no guarantee of a work permit.

4. He is going to attempt to deny the President of the U.S. access into "our community" if the President doesn't do what he wants.


I would guess that even people who are sympathetic to illegal immigrants might be put off by Mr. Perez's sense of entitlement and arrogance.

I'm curious if anybody knows of any other country where minorities who are admittedly breaking the country's laws demand that the country's President not enforce the law they are breaking.

In most places it's typically the government that makes the rules and tells the law-breakers what to do, not the other way around.

The "I'm in violation of your laws and I demand you don't enforce your laws that I broke" position isn't winning many people over.

I know I have no problem with immigrants who wanna come to my country, adopt our way of life, live within our rules, and not try to change anything. Yet it seems everyone has an agenda these days, and it seems more often than not they are out to assimilate the population of the countries they go too, and that there in lies the problems I have with Immigrants!!!!

We have laws, rules, and a way of life that we are all just fine with, don't like it don't come. And if ya do don't try to change it..... so sick of being PC, so sick of not being able to read any business signs in my community, so sick of being hindered in our school systems by ESL which seems to take precedence these days, just pretty much sick of it all, immigrations great if done proper, yet this and other instances just piss me off when there rights seem to trump ours.

SaneThinking

There are 100% natural-born Americans that act just like this guy. I guess now we know why people don't like Americans, huh?

If people don't like illegal immigrants based on the behavior of this guy, then they're being stupid. There are bad apples in every group.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
There are 100% natural-born Americans that act just like this guy. I guess now we know why people don't like Americans, huh?

The difference is that the 100% natural-born Americans are protected by the laws of the U.S. Constitution.

Guys like this are in the U.S. because they choose to be, and are willfully disobeying U.S. laws while demanding those laws be changed. They are seeking the benefits of the U.S. system while flaunting a total disregard for the rule of law, and the legal processes which make the U.S. a desirable place to live in the first place.

It's like somebody coming over to your house and complaining about how you cook dinner, and demanding you cook something else. You'd be like, "Wtf.... I'm cooking the dinner, I bought the food, it's my house, if you don't like the food why'd you come over? Just leave."

reply to post by UltimateSkeptic1
I couldn't agree with you more!!! No matter how they got here they or their parents broke the law. Federal law. They don't want to speak english, which makes me feel not at home. If I go to their country, I know that I will be limited, to bow to their will and courtesy If I want to make it. I know if I broke their laws or crossed their border that no matter what I would be in trouble big trouble. As a tourist in Mexico if you get hurt or go to the hospital you must pay in cash or you either will not be released or not treated. I live in San Diego USA and it feels like a split country sometimes. Flying the Mexican or other flags and not respecting the American flag burns me up. If they acted more american there would be less hard feelings. The law is the law no matter if you are Russian, Mexican, Kenyan, it just is the right thing to do. Otherwise everyone else would want to get their one free get out of jail free card,

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
There are 100% natural-born Americans that act just like this guy. I guess now we know why people don't like Americans, huh?

If people don't like illegal immigrants based on the behavior of this guy, then they're being stupid. There are bad apples in every group.

Maybe a lot of Americans find it easier to blame foreigners for the sins of their own corporatist government and for their own inability to stop said corporatist cabal from ruining the lives of those foreigners (and by extension, their own) = NAFTA. GATT. CAFTA. More.

But throwing them at us (by leaving the border open) and making us pay for it (unearned benefits) is very clever because it works so well to keep our minds off who the real enemies are.

reply to post by UltimateSkeptic1

The difference is that the 100% natural-born Americans are protected by the laws of the U.S. Constitution.

Guys like this are in the U.S. because they choose to be, and are willfully disobeying U.S. laws while demanding those laws be changed. They are seeking the benefits of the U.S. system while flaunting a total disregard for the rule of law, and the legal processes which make the U.S. a desirable place to live in the first place.

It's like somebody coming over to your house and complaining about how you cook dinner, and demanding you cook something else. You'd be like, "Wtf.... I'm cooking the dinner, I bought the food, it's my house, if you don't like the food why'd you come over? Just leave."

I don't often agree with your posts, but I can't say I disagree with this one!

Op, a lot of the haters are going to flame you now. Not time did you mention racism as a cause, you know that is the only reason anyone has a problem with anything a minority does.
"Sarcasm off"

I have a lot of problems with criminals invading my country, and they are criminals, that's what we call people who break the law in America, we call them criminals. Now if only they would start treating them as such, then we would all be a lot better off.

Save the " but they only want to work, and feed their kids" crap for someone who doesn't work hard for his money. They make lines in the sand and make them into different countries for a reason. If they are here illegally, I say send them back with absolutely no way to legal citizenship, and then point out how, if they would have followed the rules like all the tens of thousands waiting in line for years, than they could have come, not just come, but been welcomed with open arms.

Wait, aren't you Obama haters all against new laws on the books, and want government out of people's lives?

Isn't government big enough already? Aren't they in fact too big?

How many tax dollars would we save if we got rid of the INS? According to y'all they aren't doing an adequate job anyway, so we might as well get rid of it. (makes about as much sense as dismantling the EPA)

Either government is too big and interferes in too many people's lives, or it isn't, which is it?

Originally posted by HauntWok


Either government is too big and interferes in too many people's lives, or it isn't, which is it?

Either you set up a straw man, or you don't; which is it?

Some things are good, some things are bad. We just want to maximize the good.



A nation is only as real as its borders.

Honestly I think its ridiculous that people whose ancestors lived in this country for several thousand years can be called "illegal." If you want to talk about illegal, let us talk about how, a few hundred years ago, a bunch of Europeans came across the Atlantic Ocean and proceeded to commit the largest and longest ethnic genocide this planet has ever witnessed, to our knowledge. So guess what? Maybe the "illegal" immigrants don't like YOU because YOUR ancestors all but destroyed the culture of their ancestors, and now continue to rape and exploit the land their ancestors respected for millennia. But now its a problem if some of them want to cross the "border" and mow some peoples' lawns for pennies? Did it ever occur to you that maybe they don't give a damn what you think is legal or not?

Look at it this way; if Germany had somehow won WW2 and successfully invaded North America, now controlled it, and forced all the Americans out of the country, would you, as displaced Americans, consider yourselves "illegal?"

Get some perspective and then get over this illegal immigrant BS.

Originally posted by OrchusGhule
Honestly I think its ridiculous that people whose ancestors lived in this country for several thousand years can be called "illegal." If you want to talk about illegal, let us talk about how, a few hundred years ago, a bunch of Europeans came across the Atlantic Ocean and proceeded to commit the largest and longest ethnic genocide this planet has ever witnessed, to our knowledge. So guess what? Maybe the "illegal" immigrants don't like YOU because YOUR ancestors all but destroyed the culture of their ancestors, and now continue to rape and exploit the land their ancestors respected for millenia. But now its a problem if some of them want to cross the "border" and mow some peoples' lawns for pennies? Did it ever occur to you that maybe they don't give a damn what you think is legal or not?

Look at it this way; if Germany had somehow won WW2 and successfully invaded North America, now controlled it, and forced all the Americans out of the country, would you, as displaced Americans, consider yourselves "illegal?"

Get some perspective and then get over this illegal immigrant BS.

edit on 19-6-2012 by OrchusGhule because: (no reason given)

Some introspection. Not a common trait in America, but its good to see now and then.

Originally posted by HauntWok
Wait, aren't you Obama haters all against new laws on the books, and want government out of people's lives?

Isn't government big enough already? Aren't they in fact too big?

How many tax dollars would we save if we got rid of the INS? According to y'all they aren't doing an adequate job anyway, so we might as well get rid of it. (makes about as much sense as dismantling the EPA)

Either government is too big and interferes in too many people's lives, or it isn't, which is it?

Government gets BIGGER when government is supporting more and more people.....in this case, people who are breaking the laws of this country by coming here illegally.

The real question is: how many tax dollars would we save if we deported all illegal aliens? Certainly more than it takes to run the INS.

"Small government" doesn't mean "no government". There ARE functions of the government that even the small government people support.

P.S. And yes, the government IS too big, and DOES interfere in too many people's lives.

Originally posted by frazzle
[Some introspection. Not a common trait in America, but its good to see now and then.

Actually, I found it to be a pretty weak argument..

It is akin to saying that a displaced Russian has a right to land in France just because their ancestors lived on the same continent.. The Mexican people are mostly descended from the aboriginal peoples of Central America. In fact they are quite understandably proud of their Aztec heritage. There is a reason their ancestors did not settle on the upper half of the continent. The Native North American tribes would have run them out. (That's the way it goes when you have to defend your limited resources)..

The premise that all brown skinned, Latin people have a right to be in the US is actually a racist argument in and of itself. Just because a Cherokee and a Mexican citizen share the same skin color does not mean they are the same people!..

reply to post by clay2 baraka


Here's an example:

Baja California Reservations
The United States - Mexico border split the tribes of the Kumeyaay in two. The San Diego Kumeyaay to the north, and the Baja, California Kumeyaay to the south. www.kumeyaay.com...

That's just one. There were many tribes that were separated by both the Mexican and Canadian borders without any consideration at all for the thousands of years those tribes had lived together. Now they must cross borders to visit with their own families.

No.

I don't dislike immigrants for wanting laws enforced.

Seriously. He is trying to get some concrete trust that the law will be abided by. He's afraid that those against the temporary rule will not abide and deliberately ignore it. I don't believe Perez threatened anyone or broke anything, unless I missed that part. He wants Dream Act. He obviously doesn't want to leave. Why do you dislike him?

He's holed up. He is staying firm in his location. He isnt creeping through the ductwork in an attempt to infiltrate the vault.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

There are 100% natural-born Americans that act just like this guy. I guess now we know why people don't like Americans, huh?

People don't like Americans because they're jealous. 

If people don't like illegal immigrants based on the behavior of this guy, then they're being stupid. There are bad apples in every group.

I don't like illegals because they're HERE ILLEGALLY!! I don't need any other reason...though many are quick to give me more (like this guy mentioned in the OP). 

Originally posted by clay2 baraka

Originally posted by frazzle
[Some introspection. Not a common trait in America, but its good to see now and then.

Actually, I found it to be a pretty weak argument..

It is akin to saying that a displaced Russian has a right to land in France just because their ancestors lived on the same continent.. The Mexican people are mostly descended from the aboriginal peoples of Central America. In fact they are quite understandably proud of their Aztec heritage. There is a reason their ancestors did not settle on the upper half of the continent. The Native North American tribes would have run them out. (That's the way it goes when you have to defend your limited resources)..

The premise that all brown skinned, Latin people have a right to be in the US is actually a racist argument in and of itself. Just because a Cherokee and a Mexican citizen share the same skin color does not mean they are the same people!..

edit on 6/19/2012 by clay2 baraka because: (no reason given)

I said absolutely nothing about "rights," nor did I say the Cherokee and Mexicans share a common ancestry just because their skin color is the same or similar.

But, since you have made it clear that you know little or nothing about the subject of Native Americans, both southern and northern, allow me to enlighten you. Some ancestors of what are now considered Mexicans inhabited a great deal of North America, and at some periods of history inhabited areas north of Texas in the east and west. In fact, the line that separates northern Native Americans and southern Native Americans is a very blurred line at best, and likely never existed in the first place. Culturally speaking, many tribes of the northwestern (modern day) U.S. were virtually indistinguishable from some tribes from areas south of the Rio Grande, and there is evidence that they often coexisted and interbred. Imagine that! People living together and sharing things! What a concept!

Your belief that Native American cultures were based on confrontation is false, and the assertion that northern Native Americans would have "run them out" is similarly false. Violence, in truth, was a rarity in the Americas in ancient times and compromise prevailed until there was no other choice. Only when violence was the last resort, did physical conflict take place, and then to a very limited extent; conventional European-type warfare involving armies and mass troop movements simply did not exist.

Also, you stated that they are "Latin" peoples, which is preposterous in and of itself. They are only Latin to you because of Spanish influence, not because of any historical reality.

Read a good history book, and never argue with the husband of a forensic anthropoligist about indigenous peoples and their history. But I digress...

The point of my first post was to make people realize that the United States is their country only according to their limited viewpoint, and that this does not apply to everyone.

reply to post by UltimateSkeptic1

The difference is that the 100% natural-born Americans are protected by the laws of the U.S. Constitution.

One can only assume you mean by "laws of the U.S. Constitution" the Bill of Rights and subsequent Amendments. Those Bill of Rights, however and the astonishingly disingenuous Dred Scott ruling notwithstanding, protect any and every person within the United States. The right to free exercise of religion is not limited to 100% natural-born Americans. The right to speech, press, peaceable assembly and a redress of grievances is not limited to 100% natural-born Americans. The right to keep and bear arms is not limited to 100% natural-born Americans.

Were what you claim true, Alexander Hamilton, who was born in the West Indies, would not have been afforded the protections of the very Bill of Rights he was dead set against anyway. It is arguable he was against having a Bill of Rights for the very reason you demonstrate now.

John Paul Jones, famous for his declaration: "I have not yet begun to fight" was born in Scotland. Thomas Paine, credited with inspiring countless revolutionaries with his seminal book Common Sense was born in England. These heroes of the Revolution for Independence were not 100% natural born Americans but had the very same rights you and I have today.

The Constitution for the United States does not grant rights, it prohibits the federal government from denying and/or disparaging the rights of people.

Illegal is illegal. Kick them out with no chance of citizenship ever. Those of us that were born here and are blue collar workers and even white-collar workers have a hard enough time making ends meet as it is. Our beloved government then has the gall to offer monetary benefits to illegal aliens that are not even available to honest-to-God-red-blooded Americans.

I have no sympathy for any of the illegal aliens here and feel they should all be deported or incarcerated for a long time for criminal acts and then deported. If they want to work so bad then put them in jail and have them work on prison farms.

And for you lame cry baby sympathizers that are going to flame me, guess what? I don't give a rats ass what you think about my opinions.