Christian doublespeak? Say it ain't so!

Originally posted by Saurus
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

Is it then even possible to perform a truly selfless act?

edit on 19/6/2012 by Saurus because: (no reason given)

Depends on what you define as selfless. Is it selfless to make a choice to live in unhappiness for the need of others? Or do you mean all selfless acts are egoboosts? They can be but is not always it. You ask a person who is exhausted from the selfless act and wants everything to be easier, if the selfless act is a egotrip or a strenght of will too keep going.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by DeathbecomesLife

 

You walk up to a person on the street that is unconscious and their wallet is laying open next to them. There are 12 fifty dollar bills sticking out of it. Nobody is around. Do you :

a. call 911, and stay next to the person keeping check on their vital signs and wait for the ambulance?

or

b. take the cash and slip away with $600?

One = Goodness, or at least the absence of badness, and the other = bad.

It is written, do not tempt the Lord.

I do what the Lord commands that I do when I do it.

One is Good, and that is unknown.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Christians don't accept the equality of the opposing forces. They view God as omnipotent, and Satan as not so.

Unless a duality is equally matched, it's not really a duality, as the stronger will eventually win.

Man that sounds close to perfect. Good one.

I had to do it that way, since I failed 10th grade algebra!

Originally posted by AussieAmandaC
Unfortunately it is those same religions/groups which have caused the push and pull of the cosmic energies with their 'sacred' rites and workings, and as someone else said on the other thread, it is only your top fellows who know the consequences of what they do, the rest of you are occupied and content that you are part of something 'special'.

It really is sad that so many people believe this blindly. I will ask you an honest question, have you ever studied the structure of Freemasonry or are you just taking the word of all the people who sound intelligent when talking about it?

Originally posted by apushforenlightment
Is it selfless to make a choice to live in unhappiness for the need of others?

Why do I get the feeling you're a fan of Richard Bach's book "Illusions"?

Originally posted by DeathbecomesLife

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by DeathbecomesLife

 

You walk up to a person on the street that is unconscious and their wallet is laying open next to them. There are 12 fifty dollar bills sticking out of it. Nobody is around. Do you :

a. call 911, and stay next to the person keeping check on their vital signs and wait for the ambulance?

or

b. take the cash and slip away with $600?

One = Goodness, or at least the absence of badness, and the other = bad.

It is written, do not tempt the Lord.

I do what the Lord commands that I do when I do it.

One is Good, and that is unknown.

so if you thought the Lord told you to take the money and run, you would?
Could you be sure that you were hearing the Lord and not .........cue scary music.........Satan?

Originally posted by Saurus
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Fair enough - let's stick to "allow"

Why would God allow satan to do his own thing, unless it was eventually to God's benefit?

That is a question you would have to ask God. I can only speak for myself, but I allow people to do all sorts of things that do not benefit me. I generally leave them to do their own thing unless it actively hurts me. Anything else is on THEIR dime.

Humans get free will because giving us this freedom will ultimately glorify God.

I'm not a "free willer". so I don't believe that to be true. Since I don't believe it, I can't argue in favor of it, or make a cogent argument that requires that to be a factor.

Why then does satan get free will? What is the purpose of giving satan free will if it will not end up being for God's benefit?

I don't know that Satan has free will, either, but in either event, there's nothing to prevent him from doing things on his own that neither benefit nor injure God. Now, whether he has "free will", or a choice in the matter, or whether he is bound by following his own nature makes no difference - he does as he does, for whichever reason. It's not required to benefit God, and it might be a bad idea to injure him.

Originally posted by network dude
It really is sad that so many people believe this blindly. I will ask you an honest question, have you ever studied the structure of Freemasonry or are you just taking the word of all the people who sound intelligent when talking about it?

Herein lies the problem with Freemasonry and the Bible.

The Bible, if read to the end and accepted as truth there, then Jesus has already convened the Lodge and will return shortly. If you are born into this world, then by the Bible, you have been brought up into the brotherhood of Man, over saw by Jesus.

Freemasonry takes a man through another re-birth, and places him into another Brotherhood in the shadows.

The Lodge is structured like the Lodge opened by Jesus, but it is not the Lodge opened at the conclusion of Revelations.

So, if you believe the Bible is the whole truth, you are already initiated into a brotherhood, you live by the commandments of Jesus, and you are merely waiting for him to return.

He comes, he comes quickly.

Originally posted by network dude
so if you thought the Lord told you to take the money and run, you would?
Could you be sure that you were hearing the Lord and not .........cue scary music.........Satan?

No, the Lord already made clear his commandments. He already made clear his lessons. He already taught everything I need to know to not ere.

So, I would do what my Lord has commanded me.

My point is, I would leave you to do what your Lord has commanded you to do as well.

It is not my place to put stumbling blocks before you, but to remove them.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Christians don't accept the equality of the opposing forces. They view God as omnipotent, and Satan as not so.

Unless a duality is equally matched, it's not really a duality, as the stronger will eventually win.

Man that sounds close to perfect. Good one.

Bowing out.

edit on 19-6-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Oposing viewpoints from my point is a duality. That the duality at one point desolves and the oposing sides no longer exist do not mean there have not been a duality. Strength has for me nothing to do with it. If we have a duality for instance between the Jewish faith and Christian faith then it does not matter how many people are Jewish or Christian.

reply to post by nenothtu


I cannot argue with your logic or your examples.

I, on the other hand, do believe in free will, and as such, I do not believe in satan, as I cannot reconcile the existence of such a being with an omnipotent and omnipresent God.

I do, on the other hand believe that the concept of satan is in the scriptures by design so as to make people do the right thing for fear of punishment.

Originally posted by Saurus

Originally posted by apushforenlightment
Is it selfless to make a choice to live in unhappiness for the need of others?

Why do I get the feeling you're a fan of Richard Bach's book "Illusions"?

I have never read it so I cannot say.

Originally posted by DeathbecomesLife
Herein lies the problem with Freemasonry and the Bible.

The Bible, if read to the end and accepted as truth there, then Jesus has already convened the Lodge and will return shortly. If you are born into this world, then by the Bible, you have been brought up into the brotherhood of Man, over saw by Jesus.

Freemasonry takes a man through another re-birth, and places him into another Brotherhood in the shadows.

The Lodge is structured like the Lodge opened by Jesus, but it is not the Lodge opened at the conclusion of Revelations.

So, if you believe the Bible is the whole truth, you are already initiated into a brotherhood, you live by the commandments of Jesus, and you are merely waiting for him to return.

He comes, he comes quickly.

And I welcome his return. But, hearin lies the problem with your statement.
You are wrong. When a mason is raised he is not reborn. He is brought to light. That part is symbolic. The actual meaning is to move the body to a more fitting grave. Hiram is just as dead after he is raised as he was before.

And for the record, I don't believe the Bible is the whole truth. I believe the Bible is a great guide to live life by, but since it was written and arranged by man, it is just that, a guide. You are free to believe otherwise, but that is my personal belief.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by network dude

 

There has always been dualism. Light is nothing without dark to compare it to.

I think this is completely wrong tho dude. with all do respect. Light was created, it can be measured, calculated,
and even broken down in a lab. Darkness does not exist because it's what you have when there is no light. When you have no light what you have is friggen nothing. Therefore there was a time when their was no dualism.
It is darkness that does not exist because it describes the absence of something / light.

SnF for a great thread.

edit on 19-6-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Darkness is an adjective describing a degree of light. There exist opposite ends of everything. Hot cold, good bad, fair unjust, etc. Believing that these ends are separate entities is dualism.

reply to post by apushforenlightment

Oposing viewpoints from my point is a duality. That the duality at one point desolves and the oposing sides no longer exist do not mean there have not been a duality. Strength has for me nothing to do with it. If we have a duality for instance between the Jewish faith and Christian faith then it does not matter how many people are Jewish or Christian

Very deep and getting murky. I barely see your point but it is there.

Dude

Ok you were right. Here I am still barefoot and tippy toed.
In my smiley faced Joe boxers even.

I guess I see duality in religion in a different way...

I believe that Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Paganism can all be right at the same time.

Sort of in the same way that a child believes that both Santa Claus and Jesus are the reason for celebrating Christmas.

Originally posted by network dude
And I welcome his return. But, hearin lies the problem with your statement.
You are wrong.

No I am not.

Originally posted by network dude
When a mason is raised he is not reborn. He is brought to light. That part is symbolic. The actual meaning is to move the body to a more fitting grave. Hiram is just as dead after he is raised as he was before.

When a candidate stands in the North East corner of the Lodge, he is told there: You there stand a just and upright Mason and I encourage you to ever walk and act as such.

Well if you believe the Bible, Jesus already died and was resurrected to wash Man of their sins. He declared that they are now just and upright and commanded them how to walk as such. No man is to be called master, says Jesus.

Originally posted by network dude
And for the record, I don't believe the Bible is the whole truth. I believe the Bible is a great guide to live life by, but since it was written and arranged by man, it is just that, a guide. You are free to believe otherwise, but that is my personal belief.

Of course you do not believe the whole Bible. You would not be a Mason if you did. A man cannot serve two masters.

I am not trying to sway your belief either. Believe what you will, but lets speak the truth among us.

Originally posted by DeathbecomesLife

When a candidate stands in the North East corner of the Lodge, he is told there: You there stand a just and upright Mason and I encourage you to ever walk and act as such.

Just for the record, he is actually told:
"You now stand, to all external appearance, a just and upright Mason and I give it you in strong terms of recommendation ever to continue and act as such."

Sorry, but I am very particular when it comes to the ritual.

Originally posted by Saurus
Sorry, but I am very particular when it comes to the ritual.

Then you should not mind conceding that ritual varies from one jurisdiction to another.

Originally posted by DeathbecomesLife

Then you should not mind conceding that ritual varies from one jurisdiction to another.

Not the line I have posted.

The way you have written it is not found in any ritual.

It is, however, widely quoted the way you have written it on anti-mason sites such as scripturecatholic and evangelicaltruth. But they are wrong.