Aliens Myths: 5 Big Misconceptions About Extraterrestrial Life

reply to post by easybreezy

and for argument sake there's something we have they want. chances are it is easier to trade for it and would be much more cost effective. now when advanced civilizations on earth traveled to other country it was found easy-er to trade advanced tech for whatever, compared to slaughtering the inhabitants.

Or they could just make us SLAVES?, our governments will do the bargaining.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
What they fail to take into account however, is the nature of sentient consciousness. Do you think Humans would attempt to destroy an entire species for some resources?

Yes, we have. Many times. Other human races, animal species galore and so on. Do you realize how many animal species we have destroyed over our history? Other human races? Many human species have been systematically destroyed over many millenia for hunting grounds and potable water. Not sure im getting your point.

Why do you expect aliens to be different? What i think your also failing to grasp is they might be completely free or moral inhibitions. Why does any interstelar race owe us anything? They might simply be dangerously indifferent to our existance. They come to harvest resources, not even concerned about the very primative lifeforms living on that planet. Why would they? There are hundreds of thousands of other planets in the universe with life. To them, we are insignificant. All speculation of course.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
A rare few of us may consider it, but the truth is we would never put it into action because most of us can see how despicable that would be.

And your opinion would change quickly when your family and loved ones are dieing because of lack of needed resources, including food. Perhaps these aliens have burned their own planet and NEED what we have for their own survival. That changes everything.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
For any alien species capable of reaching Earth, they would have to be vastly more advanced than us and most likely much wiser. All wise beings know that war and destruction is never the best way to solve a problem, because the losses are often greater than anything gained from the conflict.

Was can solve problems, and has. Why do you assume they would lose anything? Being so advanced, they might not lose one single alien soul. Nor ship, nor anything.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
It is also highly likely they were able to achieve such a high level of technological development because they learned to work together as one species instead of fighting and killing each other, and destroying their planet in the process.

Or they simply destroyed any competition on their home planet, making them the dominant species and making future advancement for themselves that much easier.

I think your making a lot of assumptions on point #1. And while i might be as well, i think they are valid points. I see no reason at all to assume they will come in peace. Hell, if they are so advanced, why come at all? Some galatic sense of duty? Doesnt make sense to me.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
Yes I just addressed that point in my last post. I knew people would pick up on that, I should have made myself clearer.

And im really not sure how you thing destroying a race of our own people is somehow better or more morally acceptable than wiping out an alien species.

We have done it, time and time again. Your argument of us not being able to exterminate a planets inhabitants does not hold water. I can see several scenerios where it would happen, some with the distinct blessing of earths inhabitants, and of course the "evil corporation" scenerio.

If we ran out of resources and our only chance was a planet we discovered full of what we need, but the local species didnt not want to share, we would take it by force. Its the human way, and in fact what drives advancement and natural selection. You will find most people will not sit idly by and watch their loved ones, they wives and husbands, children and parents starve to death when it can be avoided.

I think you veiw humanity through some very rose colored glasses. We are capable of doing just about anything to survive. Look at things like the seige of Stalingrad and more to see just how low we can sink to survive. But is it "low"? Morals have no place in natural selection and survival of the fittest.

Ants are unintelligible to us, but they are quite intelligent and driven, arent they? Do you feel much regret when you exterminate their ant hill in order to keep your front lawn in good shape? I would suggest much of the same attitude from a species so far advanced from us, that we must appear very primitive.

Originally posted by nightbringr

If we ran out of resources and our only chance was a planet we discovered full of what we need, but the local species didnt not want to share, we would take it by force. Its the human way, and in fact what drives advancement and natural selection. You will find most people will not sit idly by and watch their loved ones, they wives and husbands, children and parents starve to death when it can be avoided.

that's a extream end scenario, that imply that its the only option, when from our own existence we are currently mapping space and examining the resources that may be available, crawl before you can walk, now wouldn't an alien race be or have done the same thing? now for your scenario to happen, its basically got to be the only thing around for light years in a place they haven't been before and some how squandered all available to them without thinking how to sustain and appropriate the correct amounts needed, now if that was the case, they'd could not even become a space aged race(they wouldn't have fuel gauges as they didn't know they had to fill the tank)

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

2. They didn't put us here

"I get emails every week saying that Homo sapiens are the result of alien intervention," Shostak said. "I'm not sure why aliens would be interested in producing us.

hmmm, not sure on point 2, but when the refer to Seth Shostak I'm gonna have to diregard anything that follows. Of course he's not sure....he's not alien....

edit on 18-6-2012 by Toxicsurf because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by easybreezy
that's a extream end scenario, that imply that its the only option, when from our own existence we are currently mapping space and examining the resources that may be available, crawl before you can walk, now wouldn't an alien race be or have done the same thing?

Sure. But depending on who you ask, some believe we may be quickly running out of very important resources soon, perhaps within our lifetime. Main concerns of course being food, potable water and oil.

And im not understanding why you think this is an extreme scenerio. In the past, genocides and the complete slaughter of tribes and races have occured in order for a competing tribe or race to capture their hunting grounds or fertile farmlands. I cant stress enough how existential threat can drive people to do things they wouldnt have imagined otherwise. While i would like to think i would never hurt another human, if i was watching my child die of starvation, i might do some very drastic things to save her life.

Originally posted by easybreezy
now for your scenario to happen, its basically got to be the only thing around for light years in a place they haven't been before and some how squandered all available to them without thinking how to sustain and appropriate the correct amounts needed, now if that was the case, they'd could not even become a space aged race(they wouldn't have fuel gauges as they didn't know they had to fill the tank)

Why not? We are using up resources at a astonishing rate, with no real backup plan when some are gone. Desperation could drive them to harvest ours. Why do you assume they will have planets closer to them that have the resources they need?

The "they will come in peace" is just an assumption as well.

Until we have you know, actually contact, we can't truly know.

And the big problem is even peaceful cultures tend to dominate and absorb lesser cultures.

So would ET contact be a good thing?

I don't think it will.

Originally posted by nightbringr

And im not understanding why you think this is an extreme scenerio.


Why not? We are using up resources at a astonishing rate, with no real backup plan when some are gone. Desperation could drive them to harvest ours. Why do you assume they will have planets closer to them that have the resources they need?

What i mean by extreme is that for that to happen some unlikely events have to happen, and yes we are using our resources at a ridiculous rate and we KNOW it, meaning its preventable. and right at this stage we are not capable of jetting off some were and just raping some ones else land,
now to put this into perspective if we were capable of jetting off to take some ones else stuff that would mean that recycling would be an available technology because its a hell of a lot easier to reclaim than to acquire, now whats the biggest pit fall of space flight? it would have to be food as there can only be so much on a flight.and what has been the biggest push to a more sustainable future?? recycling! those bins came outta nowhere huh... and it is very unlikely to skip allot of stepping stones in developing tech.


(sorry in a rant haven't slept for a while)

reply to post by nightbringr

We have done it, time and time again. Your argument of us not being able to exterminate a planets inhabitants does not hold water. I can see several scenerios where it would happen, some with the distinct blessing of earths inhabitants, and of course the "evil corporation" scenerio.

As I explained, the invasion of another planet and the extermination of a sentient species inhabiting that planet would be completely controversial and absolutely appalled by the masses. Of course there is the "evil corporation" scenario, but I don't believe that would ever actually happen because of the intense resistance they would face. And I think by the time we are capable of travelling to planets in other star systems we might be a bit more civil and have some serious regulations regarding how corporations may interact with other interplanetary businesses.

If we ran out of resources and our only chance was a planet we discovered full of what we need, but the local species didnt not want to share, we would take it by force. Its the human way, and in fact what drives advancement and natural selection. You will find most people will not sit idly by and watch their loved ones, they wives and husbands, children and parents starve to death when it can be avoided.

If we were capable of travelling to other star system we would be able to mine the resources required from a vast array of planets not inhabited by life. And if it really came to that I for one would let my family die rather than destroy the lives of countless other families for my own selfish goals. We would go down with dignity and honor. However the facts are that's highly unlikely to ever be the case because there are so many planets out there with so many resources it can't even be comprehended, there's basically 0 chance any other species would be forced into such a scenario, it's simply not plausible and it's stretching the evil aliens theory into the realm of extreme far-fetchedness.

Originally posted by kingofmd
I thought for sure #1 would be: They exist

Certainly, at this point, there's no clear indication that there is life anywhere but here on Earth. Most people will say that well, of course because the universe is so darned big there just has to be other life out there somewhere! As if sheer size was the determining factor. As if there's no way for a really huge box to only have one marble in it.

So, yes, probably the biggest misconception about alien life could be that there is any. And if there isn't, all the other speculation is moot.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone

And the big problem is even peaceful cultures tend to dominate and absorb lesser cultures.

No they don't... because then they wouldn't be a peaceful culture would they. They would be big primitive hairy knuckled brutes who feel the need to dominate and subdue anyone smaller than them so they can feel big and tough. Such an imbecilic nature is highly unlikely to be found in a species capable of interstellar travel. You're thinking of them as the mindless animals/beasts that they are portrayed as in the movies, and not as intelligent sentient life forms with higher level brain functions.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by EvilSadamClone

 

And the big problem is even peaceful cultures tend to dominate and absorb lesser cultures.

No they don't... because then they wouldn't be a peaceful culture would they. They would be big primitive hairy knuckled brutes who feel the need to dominate and subdue anyone smaller than them so they can feel big and tough. Such an imbecilic nature is highly unlikely to be found in a species capable of interstellar travel. You're thinking of them as the mindless animals/beasts that they are portrayed as in the movies, and not as intelligent sentient life forms with higher level brain functions.

edit on 18/6/2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

umm not sure if miss read or not, i think what he meant was that 'peaceful' (loosely) tend to absorb other cultures not by dominating with fists but a perceived safety, much how governments have now taken over

reply to post by easybreezy

umm not sure if miss read or not, i think what he meant was that 'peaceful' (loosely) tend to absorb other cultures not by dominating with fists but a perceived safety, much how governments have now taken over

Yes, and that happens with the perceived consent from the culture being absorbed... in which case it wouldn't be a hostile invasion scenario, it would be more like a peaceful merging of our species to live on the same planet or something like that.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
As I explained, the invasion of another planet and the extermination of a sentient species inhabiting that planet would be completely controversial and absolutely appalled by the masses.

More appalling would be watching everything you love die. Again, i cannt stress enough what humanity is capable of when our backs are against the wall. People have eaten babies rather than starve.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
Of course there is the "evil corporation" scenario, but I don't believe that would ever actually happen because of the intense resistance they would face.

What resistance? If they are that big and powerful, the "masses" would never learn of what they are doing. You think media controls are powerful now? Wait until coporations are powerful enough to jouney to other planets.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
And I think by the time we are capable of travelling to planets in other star systems we might be a bit more civil and have some serious regulations regarding how corporations may interact with other interplanetary businesses.

I see it as the opposite. Do you really see more restrictions and rules being put in place for corporations right now? See them being reined in by the governement? Or the opposite.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
If we were capable of travelling to other star system we would be able to mine the resources required from a vast array of planets not inhabited by life.

Thats an assumption. No reason to believe thats true. Life forms on planets WITH the necissary resources, not the opposite.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
And if it really came to that I for one would let my family die rather than destroy the lives of countless other families for my own selfish goals.

While i would love to agree, its not just you and your family, is it? Its the entire human race at stake in this scenerio. Why do they deserve to live more than us? I dont believe in some great, cosmic morality system. I dont believe if we sin, we go to hell. Im human, my primary concern is for the greater good of all humanity. Not others.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
We would go down with dignity and honor.

No, we would go down warring each other, raping and killing till the very end. Perhaps your not aware of how brutal people can be during wars? When food stocks dwindle, people will fight for the last scrap.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
However the facts are that's highly unlikely to ever be the case because there are so many planets out there with so many resources it can't even be comprehended, there's basically 0 chance any other species would be forced into such a scenario, it's simply not plausible and it's stretching the evil aliens theory into the realm of extreme far-fetchedness.

I disagree. Perhaps you can back this up with some figures?

Heavy metal stars have the most chance of creating earthlike planets.
www.astrobio.net...

Hence, the planets they might want to mine would be most likely to have life.

Again, im not sure why you assume any alien species have morals that match ours. Does life really have any value after its dead and gone? I really have no idea why we assume they will share our morals. Hell, i almost hope they dont, people can be pretty messed up.

Once again someone trying to talk about something they have no "Experience" in whatso ever!

"There is no way to know before experiencing" PERIOD!!!!!!!

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by EvilSadamClone

 

And the big problem is even peaceful cultures tend to dominate and absorb lesser cultures.

No they don't... because then they wouldn't be a peaceful culture would they. They would be big primitive hairy knuckled brutes who feel the need to dominate and subdue anyone smaller than them so they can feel big and tough. Such an imbecilic nature is highly unlikely to be found in a species capable of interstellar travel. You're thinking of them as the mindless animals/beasts that they are portrayed as in the movies, and not as intelligent sentient life forms with higher level brain functions.

Thats not true at all.

Best example i can think of is the Roman Empire which existed for a very long time. When they conquered another race or country they did not impose their culture on them, but since it was a superior culture in almost all ways, eventually they would adopt the culture naturally. The Romans were not "knuckle draggers" compared to most civiIizations at the time, they were quite advanced.

Think about it this way. Many people here on ATS believe that in order for humanity to survive, we might almost NEED an alien intervention to help us sort ourselves out. Im sure if they came here in peace, with nothing but good intentions, many would WANT to adopt their culture and lifestyle. Why not? In that scenerio, it would help save us from ourselves.

So there you have it, we adopted their culture willingly. Peacefully.

Originally posted by putnamcrab
Once again someone trying to talk about something they have no "Experience" in whatso ever!

"There is no way to know before experiencing" PERIOD!!!!!!!

true but only vaguely.
the motto deny ignorance

not perpetuate it.

now one key factor to any life to be considered intelligent is its logic reasoning skills
and quite frankly to say if aliens, capable of traveling vast distances in tech, haven't developed any moral reasoning skills as a resulting factor of basic logic, is to say that there is no such thing as logic

Opinions and more opinions, nothing else. If you really think it is more than that. Yes aliens would be peaceful but can harm as well. Although in its majority, the development of homo sapiens is a result of evolution, there are some stages of rapid physiological development that could suggest some intervention and if aliens exist, I think you may guess they may have done something and all these ancient books about Creatinism may be having some truth.

Whether i believe in them or not im not gonna base it off what anybody else has to say. Especially steven hawking...... His opinion doesn't mean jack s**t to me, he cant even talk....

reply to post by nightbringr


look to be honest with you , all you are saying is that the actions of a few = the whole...Hm-mm THAAAT'S RACIST!! ... now if you would kindly explain how a government may wish to wipe an entire existence from existence? excluding eugenics.... its just not good policy, and surly there be a green movement if any interstellar race exists especially if there own means for survival were diminishing