Why I Doubt the Official "Story"

Here's why I doubt the official story.

The OS is simple. A small group of men made it through the entire U.S. air defense and attacked major landmarks.

In response, the U.S. launched two major wars.

The two major wars would not prevent another small group of men from performing another similar terrorist attack.

There is a logic fallacy somewhere.

9/11 happened through pure U.S. incompetence. Something just doesn't seem right about the whole OS.

Originally posted by UltimateSkeptic1


Something just doesn't seem right

This is your evidence ?

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by UltimateSkeptic1


Something just doesn't seem right

This is your evidence ?

Evidence is not required to have doubts.

Didn't your ever doubt somebody was telling the truth even though you had no evidence?

Originally posted by UltimateSkeptic1
Here's why I doubt the official story.

The OS is simple. A small group of men made it through the entire U.S. air defense and attacked major landmarks.

Well actually they didn't........in fact the US Air Defense wasn't involved in blocking the planes.......because they were civilian planes......generally and certainly before 9/11 the US Air defense doesn't target civilan jets.

The 9/11 conspiracies have been debated to death..........and pretty much all the conspiracy theorist arguments have been debunked.

reply to post by UltimateSkeptic1

A small group of men made it through the entire U.S. air defense and attacked major landmarks.

There's your problem right there.
You seem to think we have air defences for internal planes. We do not.

The location of the president does.
Area 51 likely does.

Thought experiment:
A passenger plane takes off from Detroit headed for Chicago.
After the last communication from departure control there is no radio contact.
What do you do? Shoot it down??

It could be a radio failure.
It could be two pilots messing with laptops. As happened a couple of years ago. They overshot by 100 miles.
Or it could be bad guys intent on crashing into the Sears tower.

Who gives the order?

reply to post by Logical one

and pretty much all the conspiracy theorist arguments have been debunked.

Really? I have an argument then. Despite pleas and requests why hasn't the security camera's from the pentagon been released? Besides the obvious 5 stills.

Do you not understand how many "conspiracy theorists" would be debunked on just releasing any moving video of the pentagon crash. Why won't they stop it then? They have complete power to help stifle this argument but they won't. Why?

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by UltimateSkeptic1

 

A small group of men made it through the entire U.S. air defense and attacked major landmarks.

There's your problem right there.
You seem to think we have air defences for internal planes. We do not.

NOT planning to defend against a coordinated hijacking, when the U.S. already was aware of the possibility, is, by definition, part of "air defense."

The OS is basically, "We royally screwed up. We knew Bin Laden was a threat, and we knew there was a risk of coordinated hijackings of civilian planes, and we did nothing to stop it until after 9/11."

To me, without getting into any "evidence," that specific OS doesn't make logical sense.

Originally posted by TheLieWeLive
Really? I have an argument then. Despite pleas and requests why hasn't the security camera's from the pentagon been released? Besides the obvious 5 stills.

Not being a Pentagon official, I can't say..........but one thing I can say is that Pentagon officials probably don't dance to the tune of conspiracy theorist request or demands.......simply because they probably think they have better things to do with their time.

With regards the Pentagon though, ALL the evidence from the impact site, to the wreckage, to the eye witness
accounts all support the official account of what happened.

reply to post by UltimateSkeptic1


Good for you, IT is good to have doubts....and you should be proud to have those doubts....Don't worry about people who will come at you from everyway....they cannot erase your doubts.....For the past 11yrs people have been trying to Erase peoples doubts on 911....and they have not been successful....and when someone comes in and says it has already been debunked...LMAO then why would there be any discussion at all.

I have a dozen reasons at least why I have doubts.....And you know what....not a single one of them have been debunked.

But this is just ATS....It really does not matter in the scheme of of things...it is just a good place to air your views...the people behind 911 have got away with it....and in the process have yet again achieve the goal of dividing a nation as it gets set up for It's demise....Just a shame the people will always be the ones that suffer at the hands of these criminals.

Originally posted by Logical one
Well actually they didn't........in fact the US Air Defense wasn't involved in blocking the planes.......because they were civilian planes......generally and certainly before 9/11 the US Air defense doesn't target civilan jets.

The 9/11 conspiracies have been debated to death..........and pretty much all the conspiracy theorist arguments have been debunked.

Good grief...another deluded OS'er.... they seem to breed like fruit flies.

Why don't you try this crap in a private plane and see how fast they are on you....

I guess NORAD didn't get that memo when they were on Payne Stewart's tail like flies on cowdung....

www.airsafe.com...

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by UltimateSkeptic1


Something just doesn't seem right

This is your evidence ?

Not fair. She clearly stated that this is why SHE doubts the official story. This is her opinion, so it doesn't have to be riddled with facts and links. If you want to prove her opinion is wrong then it's up to you to provide the evidence.

Originally posted by UltimateSkeptic1

NOT planning to defend against a coordinated hijacking, when the U.S. already was aware of the possibility, is, by definition, part of "air defense."

The price of living in free country is that you cannot control every eventuallity, no matter how careful you are or how much intel you get.
Sure the US knew about Bin Laden, and that he was a threat........but they didn't know the specific details of 9/11 plot.
London knew it might get targetted after 9/11.......but it couldn't stop the 2005 7/7 bombings.

Originally posted by SimontheMagus

Originally posted by Logical one
Well actually they didn't........in fact the US Air Defense wasn't involved in blocking the planes.......because they were civilian planes......generally and certainly before 9/11 the US Air defense doesn't target civilan jets.

The 9/11 conspiracies have been debated to death..........and pretty much all the conspiracy theorist arguments have been debunked.

Good grief...another deluded OS'er.... they seem to breed like fruit flies.

Why don't you try this crap in a private plane and see how fast they are on you....

I guess NORAD didn't get that memo when they were on Payne Stewart's tail like flies on cowdung....

Que?

Originally posted by Logical one

Originally posted by UltimateSkeptic1

NOT planning to defend against a coordinated hijacking, when the U.S. already was aware of the possibility, is, by definition, part of "air defense."

The price of living in free country is that you cannot control every eventuallity, no matter how careful you are or how much intel you get.

That's not the point.

The point is the U.S. knew about the 2000 Millenium Plot, for example, and the 9/11 Commission basically concluded that 9/11 happened because the U.S. took few, if any, effective steps to make sure it wouldn't happen.

The response ot 9/11 was to start two wars, and like you said, that still doesn't nothing to stop more 9/11 style bombings.

There's a logical fallacy here somewhere.

Originally posted by SimontheMagus

I guess NORAD didn't get that memo when they were on Payne Stewart's tail like flies on cowdung....

www.airsafe.com...

edit on 17-6-2012 by SimontheMagus because: add link

Your one of those Truthers that doesn't understand time zones.

Add one hour on to your imagined intercept time.

reply to post by UltimateSkeptic1


You can have all the doubts your "feelings" desire. Perhaps, your doubts are related to your lack of knowledge of the timeline of events...

Here's an accurate timeline and the full link is a thorough discussion of the issues surrounding NORAD and 9/11


As you can see from the NORAD timeline, the times from NEADS notification to aircraft destruction are as follows:

begin[center] begin[tabular][|l|l|l|l|l|] hline FLIGHT & HIJACKING & NEADS NOTIFIED & CRASH & INTERCEPT WINDOW\ hline AA11 & 0813 & 0837 & 0846 & +9 minutes\ hline UA175 & 0852 & 0903 & 0903 & 0 minutes\ hline AA77 & 0856 & 0935 & 0937 & +2 minutes\ hline UA93 & 0939 & 1007 & 1003 & -4 minutes\ hline end[tabular] end[center]
All times are Eastern Daylight Time (EDT)

*Note: the most time that NORAD had was 9 minutes and that was for AA 11 before anyone knew it was an attack. All of the other times from notification by the FAA were shorter. What this tells you is that NORAD didn't have a chance to intercept any of the aircraft due to lack of time to do so...*

Read the thread here and it will allow you to reach a better understanding of what really happened related to AIr Defense of the day..

forums.randi.org...

In addition to knowing about the plot, Atta set off CAPPS, which a computerized screening system used to electronically screen people who fit a profile and might be a security risk. They held his bags back but let him onto the flight.

The whole thing stinks yet there are so many people that still claim there's nothing to see here. Heck I'm not convinced there ever was a Mohamed Atta. The CIA is expert in creating boogie men.

Originally posted by UltimateSkeptic1

Originally posted by Logical one

Originally posted by UltimateSkeptic1

NOT planning to defend against a coordinated hijacking, when the U.S. already was aware of the possibility, is, by definition, part of "air defense."

The price of living in free country is that you cannot control every eventuallity, no matter how careful you are or how much intel you get.

That's not the point.

The point is the U.S. knew about the 2000 Millenium Plot, for example, and the 9/11 Commission basically concluded that 9/11 happened because the U.S. took few, if any, effective steps to make sure it wouldn't happen.

The response ot 9/11 was to start two wars, and like you said, that still doesn't nothing to stop more 9/11 style bombings.

There's a logical fallacy here somewhere.

reply to post by Bilk22


Well, it is not surprising that you want to change the subject from Air Defense to Airport Security.. The OP addressed Air Defense and I refuted her reason for doubt because of the time line.

Now, we have the typical moving of the goal posts to Airport Security. I don't know of anyone who said Airport Security was not at fault or implicated in the very real problem of letting the hijackers through... Actually, it was not specifically Airport Security necessarily, which had always been a joke in the US anyway, but more of an overall Intelligence failure instead. Can you name someone specifically who indicated this was not a big deal? No you can't as no one is stupid enough to say that, except well....

That, BTW, was the real culprit which allowed 9/11 to succeed, not Air Defense. Air Defenses never had a chance to be successful because of the timeline of notifications...

It's not surprising that "truthers" have accomplished nothing in 11 years except disrupting legitimate discussions on Internet Forums by changing the subject to something no one disagrees with in the first place, but inserting a "strawman" to contend that others don't think Intelligence was a problem... EVERYONE who has knowledge or has researched the issues fully understands that a failure of Intelligence which includes Airport Security was the major problem which allowed 9/11 to succeed. Well, I should caveat that with all of those who have rational thoughts about most anything... There are exceptions....

Originally posted by Logical one

Originally posted by TheLieWeLive
Really? I have an argument then. Despite pleas and requests why hasn't the security camera's from the pentagon been released? Besides the obvious 5 stills.

Not being a Pentagon official, I can't say..........but one thing I can say is that Pentagon officials probably don't dance to the tune of conspiracy theorist request or demands.......simply because they probably think they have better things to do with their time.

With regards the Pentagon though, ALL the evidence from the impact site, to the wreckage, to the eye witness
accounts all support the official account of what happened.

edit on 17-6-2012 by Logical one because: (no reason given)

The pentagon isn't run by just a few people. It's a network and they all don't have better things to do. They released 5 negatives out of possibly thousands. Just 5. We can't even get hallway security footage of the plane coming through the walls. Surely a hallway couldn't be Top Secret.

If all the evidence supports the official account then what is the harm of releasing any and all footage of it?

I just think If there is nothing to hide then don't hide it. No wonder there is doubt to the Official Story.

You don't have to be an official, conspiracy theorist, or the Pope to see there is something they don't want the public to see.

Man you sound quite defensive. Have something you want to discuss with us?

Look you know my position from the other thread. This whole episode stinks from beginning to end and you know it. Maybe your outburst makes sense in a certain light.

No goal posts were move. Only the truth was.

Originally posted by Reheat
reply to post by Bilk22

 

Well, it is not surprising that you want to change the subject from Air Defense to Airport Security.. The OP addressed Air Defense and I refuted her reason for doubt because of the time line.

Now, we have the typical moving of the goal posts to Airport Security. I don't know of anyone who said Airport Security was not at fault or implicated in the very real problem of letting the hijackers through... Actually, it was not specifically Airport Security necessarily, which had always been a joke in the US anyway, but more of an overall Intelligence failure instead. Can you name someone specifically who indicated this was not a big deal? No you can't as no one is stupid enough to say that, except well....

That, BTW, was the real culprit which allowed 9/11 to succeed, not Air Defense. Air Defenses never had a chance to be successful because of the timeline of notifications...

It's not surprising that "truthers" have accomplished nothing in 11 years except disrupting legitimate discussions on Internet Forums by changing the subject to something no one disagrees with in the first place, but inserting a "strawman" to contend that others don't think Intelligence was a problem... EVERYONE who has knowledge or has researched the issues fully understands that a failure of Intelligence which includes Airport Security was the major problem which allowed 9/11 to succeed. Well, I should caveat that with all of those who have rational thoughts about most anything... There are exceptions....