Reincarnation VS Resurection... Can both be possible?

Originally posted by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by Azadok2day

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Akragon

 

The term "Resurrection" means rising up from the grave. This comes from the 3rd and 4th dimensions crossing, it will seem like the dead are rising from the grave, when all it is really is our two worlds are within each other.
Reincarnation is not only a very real thing, it is in the Bible, and early Christians even taught Reincarnation. Earth is a school for Spirits, and each one spends many lifetimes in Earth life, learning lessons and learning to be Creators in their own right.
King James Bible & Reincarnation

I read your link and every verse they cite has nothing to do with reincarnation , not a one . It is all bad bible interpretation to push a bad agenda which has nothing to do with the truth of Gods word and has everything to do with the works of Satan . For lack of a better term the new age movement uses many verses from the new and old testament to push their agenda . Seems you have fallen for this lie good luck with that.

I love little children who understand things to the limit of their perception. You have your views but they are clearly in the Kindergarten section of evolution where you still belive in duality and cannot understand that ego views of duality is the real work of Satan where he/she uses ego to divide and conquer on the smallminded minds. This will be the final last post I will make to you since trying to make you understand will be pointless at this time.

You might wanna read Jesus message again and not cast stones at your neighbours because you do not understand them. Maybe you should think a little more over what egoloss means and be sure that jesus will not tell you that He does not know you.

edit on 17-6-2012 by apushforenlightment because: spellchecking

There is absolutely zero ego in my post , I made an observation and simply commented . Your perversion of my religion is exactly what Jesus told us to watch out for and speak out against . Christ came as a lamb and returns as a lion , the brush many paint Jesus with today is not accurate , to pick and choose verses to justify your religion of the new age movement is an abomination.

The whole KJV bible is the word of God not certain verses , the newer bibles that pervert the word to make it politically correct are only good for fuel on the fire as it will lead most to the lake of fire .

reply to post by Azadok2day

I read your link and every verse they cite has nothing to do with reincarnation , not a one . It is all bad bible interpretation to push a bad agenda which has nothing to do with the truth of Gods word and has everything to do with the works of Satan . For lack of a better term the new age movement uses many verses from the new and old testament to push their agenda . Seems you have fallen for this lie good luck with that.

I don't need good luck, luck doesn't even exist, as we all plan our lives before being incarnated on Earth. You sound like one steeped in religious drivel of one life on a 2000 year old planet, ripe with demons and satans all around you, so I will not waste time attempting to convince you otherwise. I will wish you good luck with your beliefs.

Originally posted by Azadok2day

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Akragon

 

The term "Resurrection" means rising up from the grave. This comes from the 3rd and 4th dimensions crossing, it will seem like the dead are rising from the grave, when all it is really is our two worlds are within each other.
Reincarnation is not only a very real thing, it is in the Bible, and early Christians even taught Reincarnation. Earth is a school for Spirits, and each one spends many lifetimes in Earth life, learning lessons and learning to be Creators in their own right.
King James Bible & Reincarnation

I read your link and every verse they cite has nothing to do with reincarnation , not a one . It is all bad bible interpretation to push a bad agenda which has nothing to do with the truth of Gods word and has everything to do with the works of Satan . For lack of a better term the new age movement uses many verses from the new and old testament to push their agenda . Seems you have fallen for this lie good luck with that.

There is absolutely zero ego in my post , I made an observation and simply commented .

LOL. Your zealous defense of your opinion reveals the ego in your claim to be ego free.

Your perversion of my religion is exactly what Jesus told us to watch out for and speak out against .

Your religion is YOUR religion. There is no reason to feel personally attacked because someone's beliefs are different than yours. It should have no effect on the ego that you have attached to your religious dogma.

Christ came as a lamb and returns as a lion

This sounds like a synthesis of Buddha's testimony of a soul's journey.

the brush many paint Jesus with today is not accurate

Says you.

to pick and choose verses to justify your religion of the new age movement is an abomination.

An egotistical slur against people who believe differently than you.

The whole KJV bible is the word of God not certain verses

This is not a fact, as you assert. Many, many people disagree with you on this. www.abovetopsecret.com...

the newer bibles that pervert the word to make it politically correct are only good for fuel on the fire as it will lead most to the lake of fire

So God can't even keep his own Bible pure? There are copies that aren't the word of god, you say. Now we must refer to YOU as to which Bible interpretation is the correct one? No ego there!

Are you one of those Christians who believe that the fallen angels have reincarnated into the bodies of humans, after the flood, to continue to torment and lead mankind astray, even today?

reply to post by Azadok2day

The whole KJV bible is the word of God not certain verses , the newer bibles that pervert the word to make it politically correct are only good for fuel on the fire as it will lead most to the lake of fire .

It's funny the Christians keep preaching this, but offer no proof or evidence whatsoever save a convoluted and heavily edited book of myths and tales.
"The Word of God" is not a book, nor is a book the Word of God, and no amount of wishing makes it so. Here, these folks may listen to you, but I will not.

Originally posted by autowrench
It's funny the Christians keep preaching this, but offer no proof or evidence whatsoever save a convoluted and heavily edited book of myths and tales.

The Bible IS the word of God as they understand the concept of deity. Proof: Their concept of God would not exist without the Bible.

Originally posted by autowrench
"The Word of God" is not a book, nor is a book the Word of God, and no amount of wishing makes it so. Here, these folks may listen to you, but I will not.

Furthermore: If you consider God as the creator of all that is, then the Bible IS his creation. So is Moby Dick. So is Snow White.

The mistake that some make is in claiming exclusivity to a concept that encompasses all. Ownership of God is the sin of pride and the downfall of Empires.

Originally posted by DeathbecomesLife

Originally posted by autowrench
It's funny the Christians keep preaching this, but offer no proof or evidence whatsoever save a convoluted and heavily edited book of myths and tales.

The Bible IS the word of God as they understand the concept of deity. Proof: Their concept of God would not exist without the Bible.

Originally posted by autowrench
"The Word of God" is not a book, nor is a book the Word of God, and no amount of wishing makes it so. Here, these folks may listen to you, but I will not.

Furthermore: If you consider God as the creator of all that is, then the Bible IS his creation. So is Moby Dick. So is Snow White.

The mistake that some make is in claiming exclusivity to a concept that encompasses all. Ownership of God is the sin of pride and the downfall of Empires.

And also Buddha was sent here to preach the messege in the logical way. While Jesus preached it in the loving ways. Same source but not for the people who cannot see past indoctrination, ego and duality. Sometimes it is better to belive nothing and have no faith and learn to be guided instead of playing around with ego and duality. But ego is such a funny toy to play with and I have some time to waste while waiting for the universe to prepare itself for the next human signifiant moment that will change the understanding of reality for most humans totaly. I will be very happy when I can totaly loose this ego and duality views but that can only happen when I am surrounded by only saints and I can totaly let the spirit make all the decisions. But humanity is not there yeet.

Face it there are the people who cry lord only with words and not with action that will not hear god/spirit since their ego is to loud. We have to have the smallminded egodriven ones here so that the people who have evolved longer get reminded off what not to be. An the smallminded ones gets an earlier push against their ego and might be able to evolve further since they are pushed with openminded ideas. All for the evolvment of all spirits so the spirit can in the end find itself home.

I know the Christians belive God and reality is separate and that they are disconnected from god. The only disconnection from god (The One that is all) is of the ego that stand between making sure you cannot hear. I know I am part of the whole just like all soulbrothers and soulsisters are of all species however far they have evolved or not.

I do not know why Christians hate reincarnation? They should love that they get more time to understand and that god does not give up on them when they do not understand and cannot live in harmony with the others in heaven.

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by DISRAELI
In Christian teaching, Resurrection is something that happens only once.

Are you referring to the resurrection of Jesus being the only resurrection, ever? If so, this is untrue,

No, I meant that Resurrection, in Christian teaching, is something that happens only once to each person. Any ambiguity should have been removed by the fact that I referred to "each individual" in the next sentence, which is another aspect of the same point.

Each individual is incarnate only once.

Please define individual. If you mean the bodily shell of ego and personality, then yes. But the spirit goes on to live again.

What is happening for Christian teaching- and Christian teaching is what I was defining in that post- is that the spirit lives on in a "renewed" version of the original body (cf 1 Corinthians ch15), and this is not considered to be a fresh incarnation. So in Christian teaching, incarnation happens only once, for each individual.

Reincarnation, by definition, is an incarnation which happens more than once.
The complete incompatability between "only once" and "more than once" is built into the language; only one of them can be true at a time.

But the experience of the spirit continues, even in your religion. You believe it continues to exist too, either in heaven, paradise limbo, purgatory or hell.

Yes, but as I've already explained, these aren't regarded as fresh incarnations.

I think you're getting a little confused yourself about the meaning of these words "Incarnation" and "Re-incarnation", so I'd better explain.
They go back to the Latin word CARO, meaning "flesh" (the "n" appears in the genitive form, CARNIS)..
So to be "incarnate" is to be placed within, to be born into, a fleshly body.
To be "re-incarnated" is to be placed into, born into, a fleshly body for a second time, or more.
So belief in Reincarnation involves a belief that people are born into fleshly bodies more than once.

There is a clear difference between, on the one hand, the Christian teaching that people are incarnated once only and then resurrected into a "spiritual body" (SOMA PNEUMATIKON), and, on the other hand, the "re-incarnation" teaching that people are incarnated into fleshly bodies on multiple occasions.
I am not asking you to accept one teaching or the other. I am just pointing out that there is a difference.
It is the difference, as I said, between "only once" and "many times".

Originally posted by apushforenlightment
Face it there are the people who cry lord only with words and not with action that will not hear god/spirit since their ego is to loud. We have to have the smallminded egodriven ones here so that the people who have evolved longer get reminded off what not to be. An the smallminded ones gets an earlier push against their ego and might be able to evolve further since they are pushed with openminded ideas. All for the evolvment of all spirits so the spirit can in the end find itself home.

It is your own ego which passes such harsh judgements on others. Who you are and the view you have does not make you superior, just different.

If you judge others so harshly, why should they not judge you the same? Isn't that hypocrisy?

Don't do what you would not want others to do. Through your example they will learn.

Originally posted by apushforenlightment
I do not know why Christians hate reincarnation?

I do not like Okra. I do not like the taste of it, the smell of it, the texture of it, and even the look of it.

What I cannot understand is why.

So, I just accept it while accepting that others are quite fond of it.

Originally posted by apushforenlightment
They should love that they get more time to understand and that god does not give up on them when they do not understand and cannot live in harmony with the others in heaven.

And you should hate Okra as much as I do.

Not really of course, but I hope you get my point.

reply to post by DISRAELI


You cite 1Corinthians 15 as your justification that there is no such thing as reincarnation. Yet, these are Paul's words. He is justifying his own proselytization to the Corinthians. He is not teaching what Jesus taught, doesn't cite the words or works of Jesus, ever, just his own perspective, which I reject.

Yes, but as I've already explained, these aren't regarded as fresh incarnations.

That is your viewpoint. I see born again as a fresh incarnation of an old soul.

I think you're getting a little confused yourself about the meaning of these words "Incarnation" and "Re-incarnation", so I'd better explain.
They go back to the Latin word CARO, meaning "flesh" (the "n" appears in the genitive form, CARNIS)..
So to be "incarnate" is to be placed within, to be born into, a fleshly body.
To be "re-incarnated" is to be placed into, born into, a fleshly body for a second time, or more.
So belief in Reincarnation involves a belief that people are born into fleshly bodies more than once.

Nope, not confused.

There is a clear difference between, on the one hand, the Christian teaching that people are incarnated once only and then resurrected into a "spiritual body" (SOMA PNEUMATIKON), and, on the other hand, the "re-incarnation" teaching that people are incarnated into fleshly bodies on multiple occasions.
I am not asking you to accept one teaching or the other. I am just pointing out that there is a difference.

So, you don't believe that you or I are already in possession of our own spiritual body? Do you believe that god creates a new spiritual body for you after death? Who is "YOU" in that case, just a fleshy, dead body? After death, does god also create a new spiritual body for those he plans to send to hell, to be tortured for eternity?

If god creates a new body, of spiritual material for you after death, why is it so far fetched to believe that a new fleshy body could be prepared for the spirit after death instead? You know, "born" again, by water?

reply to post by windword

Are you one of those Christians who believe that the fallen angels have reincarnated into the bodies of humans, after the flood, to continue to torment and lead mankind astray, even today?

Oh, and not just that, Windword, I'll bet he also believe demons pose as Ghosts and fly around in metal craft acting like Aliens too.

Originally posted by windword
That is your viewpoint. I see born again as a fresh incarnation of an old soul.

The viewpoint I was expressing was the Christian viewpoint. I was outlining the basic Christian theology, which does not believe that fresh incarnations happen

Nope, not confused.

You are using words in complete disregard of their origins or meaning. I call that being confused.

If god creates a new body, of spiritual material for you after death, why is it so far fetched to believe that a new fleshy body could be prepared for the spirit after death instead? You know, "born" again, by water?

Whether a "second fleshly body" is possible or not, my only point is that it is not what Christian teaching means by the "resurrection".
Keeping to the topic of the thread, my point is simply that that Christian teaching on the resurrection (a once-only event) and teachings about reincarnation (a multiple event) are, by definition, two different things.
If you want to believe in reincarnation, that is up to you; but don't go thinking it is the same thing as the Christian's "resurrection", because it isn't.

Originally posted by windword
You cite 1Corinthians 15 as your justification that there is no such thing as reincarnation.

No I did not, incidentally.
I cited that chapter as my justification that reincarnation and resurrection are not the same thing
This has not been an argument about which doctrine is true; I am sticking to my guns in maintaining the basic point that there is a difference.

reply to post by DISRAELI

If you want to believe in reincarnation, that is up to you; but don't go thinking it is the same thing as the Christian's "resurrection", because it isn't.

I don't believe that Jesus WAS physically resurrected from death. I think he survived the crucifixion, and, I believe that scripture backs that up. I believe that Christians are confused by the false doctrine of Paul (Saul of Tarsus).

The Bible is NOT the word of god, it's the word of men, on god. It needs to be read with a critical eye. The biblical story line, in my opinion, was distorted to make you believe that Jesus was physically resurrected. An impossibility that denies natural reality! The story of the resurrection is a metaphor. Jesus was talking about reincarnation when he spoke of being "born again of water."

Our spiritual bodies are eternal entities, and I believe this is what the message that Jesus taught was all about.

The OP asks "Reincarnation VS Resurrection... Can both be possible?" I believe you can still be a Christian, one who follows Jesus' teachings, and believe in reincarnation too. But I don't believe in the physical resurrection of a dead body, 3 days old, that appeared disguised, wearing the mundane clothing of a gardener, still bearing the wounds of the ordeal.

reply to post by windword

So what you are saying is that you don't believe in the doctrine of the resurrection.
That does not affect the basic point that the doctrine of the resurrection and a doctrine of reincarnation are two completely different things.
In fact, by rejecting the "resurrection" teaching so emphatically, you are agreeing with me that the two teachings are incompatible. As I have been saying all along, if you believe in one, you don't believe in the other, and your post illustrates that.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Azadok2day

 

I read your link and every verse they cite has nothing to do with reincarnation , not a one . It is all bad bible interpretation to push a bad agenda which has nothing to do with the truth of Gods word and has everything to do with the works of Satan . For lack of a better term the new age movement uses many verses from the new and old testament to push their agenda . Seems you have fallen for this lie good luck with that.

I don't need good luck, luck doesn't even exist, as we all plan our lives before being incarnated on Earth. You sound like one steeped in religious drivel of one life on a 2000 year old planet, ripe with demons and satans all around you, so I will not waste time attempting to convince you otherwise. I will wish you good luck with your beliefs.

First off the bible is so misinterpreted by so called scholars , the earth is million of millions of millions years old . We all lived on this earth with God in physical spiritual bodies until Satan convinced 1/3 of Gods creation to worship him . God destroyed that earth age for it long ago , this 2nd earth age is about 13,000 years old .

As far as demons go they are inter dimensional beings feigning to be aliens And they are quite real. It's sad the so called intelligent people can not look at the prophetic part of the bible , take secular history and see much of it has come to fruition and what has not will. Every part of the bible is prophetic and was one to us as what to expect in this generation which awaits both Christ return and Satan pretending to be Christ .

The bible is clear there is nothing new under the sun , what was will be just the names are different , the places and circumstances will be similar just modernized .

reply to post by DISRAELI

Keeping to the topic of the thread, my point is simply that that Christian teaching on the resurrection (a once-only event)

This is something that only Paul (Saul of Tarsus) taught. It is nowhere else in the Bible. Many Christians reject the teachings of Paul.

Originally posted by DeathbecomesLife

Originally posted by apushforenlightment
Face it there are the people who cry lord only with words and not with action that will not hear god/spirit since their ego is to loud. We have to have the smallminded egodriven ones here so that the people who have evolved longer get reminded off what not to be. An the smallminded ones gets an earlier push against their ego and might be able to evolve further since they are pushed with openminded ideas. All for the evolvment of all spirits so the spirit can in the end find itself home.

It is your own ego which passes such harsh judgements on others. Who you are and the view you have does not make you superior, just different.

If you judge others so harshly, why should they not judge you the same? Isn't that hypocrisy?

Don't do what you would not want others to do. Through your example they will learn.

edit on 17-6-2012 by DeathbecomesLife because: (no reason given)

That is the problem with ego. It comes back and need to be constantly monitored. And you will a hard time discussion spiritual enlightenment if you cant talk about the different level of understanding without being afraid that your ego is in the way. You can judge the mind and ego that I am using to write this but it is just a temporary interface for my spirit and the minds current state of understanding.

If a person shows a judgmental bullying viewpoint and I feel like pushing down his ego then I will do that. In this state of human evolution turning the other check to duality driven viewpoints is nonproductive.

There is one duality on this planet and it is the ones who seek nondualic harmony and the ones who have a very hard time questioning their own viewpoint. Fundamentalistic views need to be questioned at every point or their higher ideals so that true progress can be made. I want humanity to stop playing around with old viewpoints and create the society that is needed where all can live in harmony. But that will probably not be done until the crowd who belive in duality are totaly gone from this planet.

My mind was very smallminded before a spiritual moment so in reality I should not blame them. Sometimes I wish this place was easier to exist in with harmony without duality views. But then this life is a life that I wished I never had experianced since it have probably deevolved my spirit and I bet there is others who feel the same. It is needed but a very bittersweet life. But then nobody said this ride was gonna be easy.

Originally posted by apushforenlightment
That is the problem with ego. It comes back and need to be constantly monitored. And you will a hard time discussion spiritual enlightenment if you cant talk about the different level of understanding without being afraid that your ego is in the way. You can judge the mind and ego that I am using to write this but it is just a temporary interface for my spirit and the minds current state of understanding.

If a person shows a judgmental bullying viewpoint and I feel like pushing down his ego then I will do that. In this state of human evolution turning the other check to duality driven viewpoints is nonproductive.

There is one duality on this planet and it is the ones who seek nondualic harmony and the ones who have a very hard time questioning their own viewpoint. Fundamentalistic views need to be questioned at every point or their higher ideals so that true progress can be made. I want humanity to stop playing around with old viewpoints and create the society that is needed where all can live in harmony. But that will probably not be done until the crowd who belive in duality are totaly gone from this planet.

My mind was very smallminded before a spiritual moment so in reality I should not blame them. Sometimes I wish this place was easier to exist in with harmony without duality views. But then this life is a life that I wished I never had experianced and I bet there is others who feel thesame. It is needed but a very bittersweet life. But then nobody said it was easy.

You speak of different levels of understanding. I say there are just different understandings.

Levels create more than duality, they create multiplicity, where your view is on top, not beside others.

If you seek non-duality, eliminate first the multiplicity.

You say you were small minded before a spiritual experience, one that you did not do for yourself.

Then trust that what watched over you and helped you to grow, is also watching over others and helping them where it sees fit.

"I want humanity to stop playing around with old viewpoints and create the society that is needed where all can live in harmony."

Harmony does not mean that ALL will acquiesce to your view, but that you can allow their view while being true to your own.

"If a person shows a judgmental bullying viewpoint and I feel like pushing down his ego then I will do that. In this state of human evolution turning the other check to duality driven viewpoints is nonproductive. "

Then you are perpetuating what you know you do not want.

reply to post by apushforenlightment
tell me something; what is the point of non duality?why bother seeking enlightenment when everything is predetermined anyway?