License to have children

Originally posted by stuncrazy
the only reason something like this wouldn't work is pretty simple. the people that make the rules get to decide who can reproduce and who can't. in a perfect world this might work, but then again we wouldn't need it.

unfortunately i can agree that some people don't deserve kids, but then again i don't see any feasible solution where there isn't a blatant abuse of this power.

Yeah, it could easily be misused.

I guess we have to go on the idea that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure and try to help educate the masses more thoroughly so they can be intelligent enough to choose to have children when it would be conducive to their life and the life of the child instead of just an "accident" because they chose pleasure over responsibility.
Of course, by educating them and helping them make more intelligent decisions, they will most likely be better parents as well and everyone will benefit as a result.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo

Originally posted by Idonthaveabeard
Then if you want kids later in life you apply for a license to have your castration reversed. To have a baby (weather rich, poor, black, white or whatever) you must prove your home is a stable loving environment that has the means to support, love and raise a child.

lol that would not have worked with my parents......amazing what the world sees on the outside, then behind doors it is a completely different situation.....

you know how many abusive homes look PERFECT from the outside and when around others?

and really who decides what is a stable and loving environment?

while I get your point completely, a liscense wont work. look how many people pass their vehicle driving license, and get behind the wheel and cant drive worth crap!

edit on June 17th 2012 by greeneyedleo because: (no reason given)

Would it have helped if your parents had been better educated in child rearing and had known what to expect? Maybe if they had better skills at dealing with being a parent and didn't use abuse as their means of "dealing with it'?
I don't know your full story and don't want to cause any pain for you in reliving any part of it, so if you choose to not answer, that is perfectly ok.
A lot of the people I have seen abuse their children are usually unable to cope with being a parent and don't know what they're supposed to do or what would be the best approach and they end up using violence instead of finding more constructive ways to deal with what they're feeling... through absolutely no fault of the child at any time, no child deserves that.

reply to post by PurpleChiten


Exactly education is the key to solving our problems.
Thinking about them in depth and sharing ideas.

That is exactly why we have so many major problems right now, our approach to general education isn't serious enough I am afraid.

Originally posted by Star128
Opinions be damned, all of you nullified what rights you thought you had by saturating the planet with offspring. Organized religion = Cancer upon the Earth. Now it's so crowded you can't climb Everest to escape your spawn, and you wonder why the drive for depopulation? Doesn't matter anyway when you see the monsters women will be popping out as a result of Fukushima!

Imagine for a moment we were all just bacteria or ants.

Do you think an individual organism like that thinks these types of things about their own colony?
I don't.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

Exactly education is the key to solving our problems.
Thinking about them in depth and sharing ideas.

That is exactly why we have so many major problems right now, our approach to general education isn't serious enough I am afraid.

In the overall scheme of things, education hasn't really changed much in the past 200 years. It's not addressing today's problems and needs to be brougth "up to date" a bit more realistically. Sure, they change things here and there and it all cycles around and around. There hasn't been a major change of mindset and structure in it and that's what needs to take place.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Oh dear, you've spent an awful amount of time on this -- all for little ole me? I'm flattered.

First of all, pedophilia IS child abuse - it is sexual child abuse. I believe I provided at least one link describing such acts perpetrated by parents.

Second, I believe I stated in a previous post that the foster care system was not a good option, so you're preaching to the choir. Sorry you went to all that trouble to convince me of something I already believed. You only proved my previous point that there are many, many horrible people out there that should not only NOT give birth to children, they should NOT be allowed access to children at all.

Third, I have become a convert. I now believe that the answer to this dilemma is to start living life as it was 300+ years ago. Back then, we let plague and other health issues kill a large number of children in infancy. It's nature's way really, so it can't be bad. A child who dies at 2 or 3 months of age is harder to abuse, so the numbers on child abuse will drastically go down (as will child population in general). There was no foster care system, so we don't have to worry about that. And people were free - even encouraged - to have as many children as they wanted (because most of them wouldn't live anyway). So, we do away with all the modern conveniences, like cars, electricity, hospitals, medicines (look how we've screwed up antibiotics, so of course, we need to go back to pre-penicillin days), agricultural advancements, etc., etc., and really get back to nature. Sure, our lives will be a little harder, and our lifespans may be a little shorter, but that's a small price to pay to keep our population down, our air cleaner, and our freedoms intact.

reply to post by kaylaluv

Oh dear, you've spent an awful amount of time on this -- all for little ole me? I'm flattered.

You flatter yourself. I did this, as I always do, for the unalienable rights of people, which includes the right to procreate.

Quibble all you want about pedophilia and child abuse, pedophilia is a very specific form of child abuse, but when push came to shove, the best you could do was post a link to a site that lumps all child abuse cases - including those in foster homes - together. You backpedaled, and you continue to do so.

License, by its legal definition, is the grant or permission to do something that would otherwise be illegal. Having children is not a criminal act and demanding licensing schemes because of what might happen, and excusing the disparagement and denial of a right, because of what might happen, is repugnant.

Constantly backpedaling is a common symptom among the sycophants of tyranny.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

License, by its legal definition, is the grant or permission to do something that would otherwise be illegal. Having children is not a criminal act and demanding licensing schemes because of what might happen, and excusing the disparagement and denial of a right, because of what might happen, is repugnant.

By that argument, we should go back in time and attach a criminal history to all our ancestors who were fishermen....The entire argument that was presented would go on the presumption that having children would be illegal without the license, just as catching a fish is unless it's on your own land. I guess they could still procreate all they want on their own land or something? Catching a fish isn't a criminal act, but you still need a license in order to do it.
I don't agree with the license idea, but that's not a good reason for disagreeing with it.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Oh dear, you've spent an awful amount of time on this -- all for little ole me? I'm flattered.

You flatter yourself. I did this, as I always do, for the unalienable rights of people, which includes the right to procreate.

Quibble all you want about pedophilia and child abuse, pedophilia is a very specific form of child abuse, but when push came to shove, the best you could do was post a link to a site that lumps all child abuse cases - including those in foster homes - together. You backpedaled, and you continue to do so.

License, by its legal definition, is the grant or permission to do something that would otherwise be illegal. Having children is not a criminal act and demanding licensing schemes because of what might happen, and excusing the disparagement and denial of a right, because of what might happen, is repugnant.

Constantly backpedaling is a common symptom among the sycophants of tyranny.

Are you always this grumpy??? Why are you so hung up on pedophilia? Dost thou protest too much?

Ok!! You win!!! No licenses!! Everyone has the right to give birth to as many children as they want!! Let's just go back to the days of high infant mortality rates. Let most of them die as nature intended, before anyone gets a chance to abuse them in ALL the ways a child can be abused.

Happy now? Sheesh.

reply to post by PurpleChiten


Legal Definition of License:

A special permission to do something on, or with, somebody else’s property which, were it not for the license, could be legally prevented or give rise to legal action in tort or trespass.

License Legal Definition:

A license or permit is an offical authorization to do something that the person would not be entitled to do without the license or permit.

Ironically, your argument was in defense of overreaching licensing schemes. You could have made the effort to look up the legal definition yourself, but instead you chose to make the argument you made. Begin proud of ignorance is a strange accomplishment.

reply to post by kaylaluv

Why are you so hung up on pedophilia? Dost thou protest too much?

I didn't bring up pedophilia in this thread, you did, and did so the same way you're using it now. When you first brought it up you stated: "you could be a pedophile", and now you revisit that claim. If you were making valid arguments you wouldn't have to resort to such obvious gestures, but I suppose valid arguments is too much to ask of you.

edited as to not feed the trolls

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Why are you so hung up on pedophilia? Dost thou protest too much?

I didn't bring up pedophilia in this thread, you did, and did so the same way you're using it now. When you first brought it up you stated: "you could be a pedophile", and now you revisit that claim. If you were making valid arguments you wouldn't have to resort to such obvious gestures, but I suppose valid arguments is too much to ask of you.

Speaking of valid arguments, where's yours? What is your solution to child abuse (in ALL its forms), and too many children creating a burden on us all?

reply to post by PurpleChiten

Nope, you are extremely, and completely incorrect, as you often are. The only ignorance being shown is from you, as it always is. Try to learn to open your mind as opposed to just your mouth and you may get further in life. See how easy it is to roll cute little insults off the tips of your fingers? You aren't the only one who can do it. Now grow up and discuss this with some common sense instead of putting yourself falsely up on a pedastal.

There is a huge difference between your reification and my linking of established definitions. You simply spout off, I support my arguments with facts.

You can backpedal all you want. You can pretend you are being "open minded" about the issue, but you chose to make the ignorant argument about licensing that you did with me, and this reveals your true position. You clearly advocate licensing schemes, regardless of their true and lawful purpose.

Now grow up and try to do a little research to inform your opinion as opposed to patting yourself on the back for simply having an opinion.

reply to post by kaylaluv

Speaking of valid arguments, where's yours? What is your solution to child abuse (in ALL its forms), and too many children creating a burden on us all?

This thread isn't about finding solutions to child abuse, it is advocating the licensing of procreation. My argument is in defense of unalienable rights. I have consistently made this argument throughout this thread. You can dismiss the unalienable right of procreation all you want, it is nothing more than ill informed opinion. As I've stated in this thread all read: Long before governments existed humans were procreating. No one granted early humans this right to do so, they simply just did so, and by right, just as parents do so today.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Speaking of valid arguments, where's yours? What is your solution to child abuse (in ALL its forms), and too many children creating a burden on us all?

This thread isn't about finding solutions to child abuse, it is advocating the licensing of procreation. My argument is in defense of unalienable rights. I have consistently made this argument throughout this thread. You can dismiss the unalienable right of procreation all you want, it is nothing more than ill informed opinion. As I've stated in this thread all read: Long before governments existed humans were procreating. No one granted early humans this right to do so, they simply just did so, and by right, just as parents do so today.

And something needs to be done about the blatant abuse of that particular "right" which isn't a right at all, it's a biological process.

reply to post by PurpleChiten

blah blah blah, this is a message board, not a doctorate thesis, get over yourself

Yeah, at least we both agree who is the better informed on this subject, and both agree it isn't you. You enjoy your message board little bird, I'll keep fighting for rights.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

Exactly education is the key to solving our problems.
Thinking about them in depth and sharing ideas.

That is exactly why we have so many major problems right now, our approach to general education isn't serious enough I am afraid.

I'm not against educating kids in school about responsible sex and responsible parenting, but so many conservatives get their panties all twisted up about that - "Schools should only be for teaching math and grammar. Let the parents teach their kids everything else. We don't want the nanny state involved in this."