Drones over the usa and dropping bombs elsewhere? So what?

More and more we are hearing stories about drones dropping bombs overseas, and now stories and rumors about drones flying over the skies of the USA. My question is, why is this such a big deal to everyone all of a sudden? Drones are nothing more than military aircraft being flown by pilots at a remote location. the only difference between a drone and a fighter jet or bomber is that the pilot is safe if the drone goes down. We have had bombers and jets flying fully loaded over the entire world dropping bombs on the bad guys almost since planes were invented, and they fly fully loaded over the USA as well, always have.

Why is everyone all of a sudden up in arms about drones? Shouldn't you be praising the technology that is keeping our pilots safe if something bad were to happen?

I don't get it.

And dont tell me the drones over the usa are spying on you and getting ready for the NWO or any crap like that. Let's be realistic people. They are used for the same reason fighters are used over the USA...to protect the country.

What does the country need protection from?
When people claim we need to be protected,
they could at least tell us from what.

From whatever fighter jets have been protecting you from for all these years. Other countries invading, terrorist attacks, etc. Everyone complained after 9/11 that the planes should have been in the air already to intercept the hijacked airlines, so now planes and drones are, and those same people are complaining about the drones, but you don't hear boo about a fighter jet flying around.

yes theres nothing wrong with the united states interfering in other countries and killing people in undeclared and unjustified wars... under the pretext of killing suspected militants, while killing 10 times as many civilians in the process, potentially creating MORE militants from the angered families and survivors

you just haven't done enough research

I can pull up dozens of articles like this
NATO air strike kills six children: Afghan officials

27 killed in just three days as U.S. increase strikes in Pakistan

U.S. Drone Kills 16-Year-Old Pakistani Boy Days After He Attends Anti-Drone Organizing Meeting

And then the American hypocrites wonder why this happens


And now theres 30,000 of these killing machines are coming to your skies.
Then "so what" will turn into "wtf"...only a matter of time
unless you guys wake up and stop the whores in your government

Originally posted by sensfan
More and more we are hearing stories about drones dropping bombs overseas, and now stories and rumors about drones flying over the skies of the USA. My question is, why is this such a big deal to everyone all of a sudden? Drones are nothing more than military aircraft being flown by pilots at a remote location. the only difference between a drone and a fighter jet or bomber is that the pilot is safe if the drone goes down. We have had bombers and jets flying fully loaded over the entire world dropping bombs on the bad guys almost since planes were invented, and they fly fully loaded over the USA as well, always have.

Why is everyone all of a sudden up in arms about drones? Shouldn't you be praising the technology that is keeping our pilots safe if something bad were to happen?

I don't get it.

And dont tell me the drones over the usa are spying on you and getting ready for the NWO or any crap like that. Let's be realistic people. They are used for the same reason fighters are used over the USA...to protect the country.

Why do you ask a question and then tell us how we can and can't answer? Oh and those drones dropping bombs overseas are killing innocent civilians and children. Sorry, as a human being with a conscience, I can't stand behind that.

I totally agree that bombs killing innocents is wrong, but that's not the question I am asking. Now I'm not saying eveyrone, but there are a lot of people solely complaining about drone strikes or drone patrols. Where are the complaints about fighter jets doing the same thing? Bombs dropped from a bomber kill innocents too, but it's only making news now because it's a drone doing the bombing.

reply to post by sensfan


Off-topic but great signature! I'm currently halfway through Book 2 of the Dark Tower series.

I get what you're saying, and I've wondered the same thing myself. If I drop a 2,000lb bomb from a B-2 on your house, you're just as dead as if I launch a Hellfire from an MQ-9 Reaper.

The argument that I've heard from people is that the pilots launching the weapons are more detached than if they were there, but I disagree completely. A pilot in a plane at 30,000 feet, or at 500 feet, isn't right there like someone on the ground is. I personally think that a drone pilot is MORE likely to react to the attack, because they stay in the area longer, and the cameras in use give them much more detail than a pilot can see from the altitude that they are flying at.

reply to post by sensfan


Drone operations are a lot like a video game, the "user" or operator never actually sees their target, it's pretty much virtual, killing is indiscriminate although targeted and hence has a very limited effect on the conscience. Up close and personal is a bit different. The first time you kill, if you're normal, you'll probably throw up. If that doesn't dissuade you from killing again (due to pressing circumstances, like war, being shot at, etc.) the second time, you might feel a little bad but it passes quickly. After a half dozen or more times, you become kind of callous, it's business, s****t happens ;-)

Back to the drone operator... since he/she doesn't actually engage the person they are going to kill, they don't have to deal with the psychological ramifications of their act. They don't get to work into the idea that they killed a real person who has family, friends, a mother, father, whatever. But one day, it will catch up with them and that little daemon in their head will turn on them and instead of dealing with one killing at a time when it happens, they will have to deal with 50 or 100 or a 1000 or more all at one time.

Now, if you think it's ok to use this technology above the people that are funding it through their tax dollars, if you think it is ok to breed and work for psychopaths, I think your career path should be in politics as they exist today, you'd fit right in with the present PTB.

Cheers - Dave

reply to post by bobs_uruncle


Neither do fighter or bomber pilots. They see a target on the ground or are given coordinates to attack, and in some cases never even see what they're dropping on. They're more detatched than UAV pilots under some circumstances.

reply to post by Zaphod58


I agree, when a drone strikes they must loiter in the AO untill they can confirm that mission is a sucsess or another strike is needed by using the camera that can Zoom in, they (the drone pilot) can see what THEY did. A pilot has to have an observer do it for them.
But to stay on topic I don't like drones over my house looking at whatever ......

Originally posted by sensfan


Why is everyone all of a sudden up in arms about drones? Shouldn't you be praising the technology that is keeping our pilots safe if something bad were to happen?

I don't get it.

And dont tell me the drones over the usa are spying on you and getting ready for the NWO or any crap like that. Let's be realistic people. They are used for the same reason fighters are used over the USA...to protect the country.

30,000 drones over the US to protect us? I don't think so.... here's a few reason why we shouldn't have drones in our backyard..

1. H.R. 658
2. flying robots crash more often than manned aircraft
3. broader deployment of drones by government agencies.
4. powerful domestic surveillance weapon
5. fly's 24/7
6. 30,000 drones over the US !!!!!!!! WHAT?
7. armed to the teeth
8. Governments, by nature learned that they can literally get away with murder... Drones will murder people
9. Warrantless Wiretapping
10. to target, annihilate individuals and groups of people.

The federal Real ID program will be installed in Drones to track everyone who is legal to drive.... Think about that... a rapid expansion of data collection, storage, tracking, and mining.

I'm sure you don't want this beast over your head.....

reply to post by imitator


I'll let others discuss the other points, but as to point 2, UAVs have a similar or better flight safety record as manned aircraft. At one point the Global Hawk was higher, but that was back in 2003, and it's gotten much better. Accident rates for human factors go from 0.1 for approximately 24,000 hours for the Global Hawk, to just over 0.0001 for just over 100000 hours for the Predator.

www.dtic.mil...

To compare an F-16 or F-15 averages an accident rate of 3-4 per 100000 flight hours.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by bobs_uruncle

 

Neither do fighter or bomber pilots. They see a target on the ground or are given coordinates to attack, and in some cases never even see what they're dropping on. They're more detached than UAV pilots under some circumstances.

I would agree to some extent per the remoteness of targets, but not the detachment. The pilots and crew are actually in an aerial vehicle and they are risking their lives to accomplish a mission. That aerial vehicle they are flying in can be attacked by SAMS, AIMS or simply have a catastrophic failure in which case, they are dead. The drone operator however is in no such danger, they cannot be killed in the air, only their drone can be taken down. So there is still quite a bit of difference.

I drone warfare, there is no risk, so there is no code, so there is no heart, so there is no conscience.

Cheers - Dave

reply to post by bobs_uruncle


Sure there is a risk of death to a fighter or bomber pilot, but their thought process is more on the defenses they are facing, and less on the people on the ground. It's one thing to worryabout and see SAMs or guns, and another to loiter over the area looking at the results of your attack.

Another thing is that in recent months/years over Afghanistan, I don't think a single fixed wing manned aircraft has been shot down, so they're in basically the same boat as a drone operator, with the exception of mechanical failure/pilot error, but no fighter pilot is going to go into a mission worrying about death. He KNOWS that he's the best in the air, and it will never happen to him. That's the mentality you have to have to fly a fighter.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Maybe true for Predators and Global Hawks, they can keep them over seas too! Better there than here lol.. It's those little small, lightweight, UAV's for reconnaissance, surveillance, spying etc. 24/7 solar power flight... will be the ones that crash more often than manned aircraft.

Then you have Amerikan scientists designing a new generation of nuclear-powered drones that can fly without ever refuelling!!! What a nasty mess that would be if it crashed in your backyard..... fukushima all over again!

reply to post by imitator


All the UAVs listed on the chart are showing a downward trend in accidents. However, even if a micro UAV crashes, on average they're maybe 6 pounds or even less in some cases. A lot of them are hand launched, or even can be attached to a gun launcher. Unless they happen to be a direct hit on someone, if a small UAV goes down, it's not going to cause a lot of damage like a larger UAV could.

reply to post by Zaphod58


You know that's probably a chart made by the military.... no reason for me to believe it lol...

I'm sure there is dozens of drones being designed for domestic purpose that's been untested... the only way they will test them is to fly and crash them in your backyard.... don't drink the water,,,

reply to post by sensfan


To directly answer your question, the answer lies in the scale of things.

Previously, to get a jet in the skies to drop a missile in hostile territory was very dangerous and expensive. So the intel had to be good, the risks worth the perceived reward. And anytime the bomb hit a wedding, everybody in the world got rightly pi$$ed off at the yanks.

Now they're shooting so many missiles nobody can keep track. Intel is a bad joke, they're just keeping busy because they have nothing better to do. Killing the wrong people is ok, because there's never any direct response available to the victims. It's cheap, easy and risk free to kill a family far away.
Well, not so far away anymore hey? Good luck with that. If these systems were SO good, they'd actually be winning the war hey? All they're winning is the death toll, the war they're losing badly.

And BobsUruncle, thanks for getting the the real heart of the matter, no man can ever kill another without massive blowback in his heart and mind. They seem to pretend that rule doesn't exist.