You do more harm then good.

reply to post by Chargeit


Actually, I'm saying, take NO ufo/alien as fact, ever!!!
Reread my post, it's there alright!

And change your thread title.
It's than, not then

Originally posted by NoLoveInFear46and2
reply to post by Chargeit

 

Actually, I'm saying, take NO ufo/alien as fact, ever!!!
Reread my post, it's there alright!

sounds like u dont believe in UFOs or aliens, or... u mean dont believe anything until shown evidence?

reply to post by saiyankev


See, belief and fact are completly separate things.
One implies personnal, thus subjective view on something.
And fact is what the claimer knows, and has told others. He knows he's either lying or telling it like it is.

And yes I believe in aliens, just not visitors, and that's my personnal opinion

Originally posted by Chargeit
reply to post by boncho

 

The point of my thread wasn't making fakes.

The point was not putting out bogus ufo/alien claims to the general public.

Ugh.

Yes, I'm sure no one has said that before to the people that do it. But they will definitely listen to you.

" You do more harm 'then' good "

Do you mean there has been some sort of atonement for a previous indiscretion ?

What harm was done?

What good was then done ?

Or .... did you mean ' than' ?

I've been photo eidting for years using gimp, to tell you, the best alarm is common sense, sometimes it's hard to say when something is real or fake. We can assume in most cases it is fake, I have a rule - too close UFOs flying in front of the camera or too detailed picture is a fake by default.

Ive just posted something similar to this in another thread but I totally agree with you. People put out all these crazy stories and crappy grainy videos that just water down the good information and reliable sources that do talk about encounters with ET's and UFOs.

Another point:

Not everyone making a "wild claim" is doing so to deceive. They may genuinely believe they have had the experience. They may be mentally ill. They may be telling the truth, or at least what they genuinely believe is true.

That is where real investigation must take place, do determine fact from fiction. I totally agree that understanding what makes up a fake is important if you are doing a legitimate investigation. I also think that our government has used ridicule and disparagement to "protect" themselves and the people from learning the truth about UFO phenomena (namely that it exists and we have no control over it - at least according to everything I've read/seen, but I'm no expert or Final Word on the subject by any means...just my current opinion). Due to that, there are some fakes that I think are disinfo - designed to cast doubt and make people who believe in ufos look stupid and part of the "lunatic fringe." I also think this relates to the "can I fool the crazy ufo people into thinking this is real, gets lots of hits on YouTube and make money on some ads in the process??" mentality. Finally, there are people posting videos of weird things they see, and they genuinely believe they are seeing some kind of real phenomena, as they are not aware of what a massive flock of birds looks like high in the atmosphere, or dust on the lens, or whatever.

So the challenges to the truth are the charlatan, the attention-seeker, the genuine person who thinks they have experienced a real event that turns out to be explainable, and the disturbed. The latter group deserve our compassion and care, in my opinion. With all of that, it is hard to separate out the truth.

So I don't believe that everyone who makes a claim is doing so to mess with the truth on purpose, or trying to do harm. Also, I applaud your effort to be a good investigator of the truth!

peace,
AB

OP, I am curious by what you mean when you say they "do harm." While I don't think it's exactly healthy for some people to believe in some things to the degree that they do, I don't get what it is "harming." Especially on this site. I see that comment enough, and I don't really get it.

It is doubtful that this site is visited by top scientists considering to do UFO studies. Or news sources. Or by Joe Public - most people have never even heard of this site. The only people to whom these folks are telling their tales to, are the rest of us. I don't think it harms ufology as a whole. The ones that harm it imo, are certain researchers, or elaborate hoaxes, and our own government. Not someone who feels they are chatting with aliens in their sleep.

I can't help if someone one thinks their recording UFO's and put it out on the net.

I can decide its not worth putting my name on.

No you can't stop the flood of Fake unreliable videos, photos, and accounts.

What you can do is not encourage them without hard facts to back them up.

You don't need to prove UFO's and Aliens are real. You have to prove the idea of them isn't the stuff of fantasy.

Tomorrow a Alien armada could fly over the white house, blow up DC, and then go have some brews in New Orleans. This could all be caught on camera. People could still be easily convinced it didn't happen since the idea of Aliens is already a joke in their heads.

UFO/Aliens are a joke in their heads because of the bogus claims that get put out there. THen backed up by supposed Proponents of the subject.

But like I said. If you can't see that on your own. I can't help you.

reply to post by Chargeit

Hey ChargeIt,
Your post seemed directed to comments I made, and I think you may have taken me the wrong way, possibly?


To be clear, I'm not talking about "putting my name on" any old random account, nor propping up bogus claims, as if that were an okay thing to do - I appreciate how that makes the whole topic of ufology seem lame. I think you make a very valid point about investigating claims prior to embracing them, and learning about what constitutes a fake. We would be on the same (or at least a similar) page with that. So, if that wasn't clear, my apologies.

There are certainly amazing, well-researched and documented cases out there that deserve the center stage, and there are many many more that are not. There are various reasons for this, as I mentioned in my earlier post. We all need great researchers out there separating the real from the false - striving to do that, and to help others do that, is a good thing.

Peace to you.

- AB

reply to post by AboveBoard


Its good to see someone understands.

I'm not expecting everyone accept my believes.

I just want them to realize the harm not thinking before they accept does to the ideas of UFO/Aliens.

I said earlier. (different thread)

I want to know. Not just believe.

reply to post by Chargeit


Okay - I think the point you were making, that I was not picking up strongly enough, was that the Researchers should be more vigilant if they are calling themselves proponents of ufology. I do hear what you are saying.

It does get dicy sometimes when one researcher sees legitimacy and another sees fakery - they must both back up their claims with facts. I have an equal hard time with people habitually debunking without backing up their claim with facts, too, which is just as damaging, I think, as a proponent of ufos proclaiming fake things are real. Again, it is a great point that people should be educated. I'm a newbie, so I make no claims "real" or "fake!" lol!

There may be cases which can't be proved one way or the other and people will argue them until the end of time.

Anyway - I hope I have clearly understood you now.

- AB

reply to post by AboveBoard


Yea. Basically try to explain though other means before tagging every video/photo as absolute evidence. Assume their misidentified or faked first. Then from there you can see if there's anything in the proof that can be backed up.

A video from the ISS of some light that stays on the same path and does nothing but orbit isn't proof it could be anything to put Alien on it is pure speculate. Just because you don't know doesn't mean Aliens.

Now. Watch this. There's a object moving from right to left. It stops. Changes course and speeds up. After it shoots off you see another object shoot from earth on the same path it had been on.

www.youtube.com...


Now. There's explanations for it. You can see a flash of the ISS's rockets. Then it shoots off. They claim it was ice crystals I believe. Still. This is a video well worth pondering over. This is something that looks like it was under intelligent control. I'm not saying it had to of been Aliens or a maned craft. But it does things that objects orbiting earth such as space debris just doesn't do. Stop, Change direction and speed up.




There's better videos of that. The object starts in the middle of the screen.


www.youtube.com...

That video seems to point it out better. Didn't fully watch though.

This is the type of UFO evidence that we need to bring to the table. Not some rednecks random light in the sky.

reply to post by Chargeit


Cool video! I hadn't seen that one yet. Well worth the time to try and figure it out!!

Thanks for posting...

- AB

reply to post by AboveBoard


np man.

Originally posted by Chargeit
I'm going to bed.

I have to post this.

Its clear to me that most people on these forums don't care about learning the truth behind life outside of the solar system. They care about fantasy.

Keep to your fantasy and keep playing into the disinformation of the man. If you can't see the harm you do then I feel sorry for you.

Peace

Go watch some start trek.

If you really knew anything about the UFO/alien phenomenon as you claim -- you are after all claiming to offer the "truth" -- you'd know that the more one researches and delves into this subject, the more bizarre it gets. As such, one cannot rule out anything from the outset. To do so ignores the very nature of this subject and will lead, not to answers, but to more confusion and mystery. You are doing nothing here but keeping the fires of ignorance on this subject hot.

In your first post, you state:

"Why would you ever say that some Alien came down and Impregnated you? Wheres the proof? Who other then those in the UFO community will take it serious?

How is indulging your fantasy worth the harm done?

You don't need to convince the UFO community that Aliens are out there. You need to get the general population on board."

This phenomenon evades human efforts to obtain "proof". It's silly to demand such proof when you realize that we are dealing with beings who are capable of erasing any/all proof that such events occurred. These beings operate outside of our physical, spiritual, mental and moral norms. How can you possibly expect to capture evidence of such beings, especially when those who are abducted normally have no control over what is happening to them. Even some humans are able to cover-up crimes in an expert fashion. But, if we have credible witnesses, that may be all that is needed in court to win a conviction. Convictions are often won on credible witness testimony alone. It's the same here: if there are enough credible witnesses, the likelihood is that events of that nature did occur.

Simply because it is beyond your personal comprehension that such events could occur does not mean that the events did not occur. It only means you just can't believe it and have concluded, wrongly and without further analysis, that the experiencers are "indulging in fantasy." That is prejudice at its finest and encourages ignorance. If that is your method of investigation, then you need to go to work for Randi. He's prejudiced against all possibilities that exist outside of his personal belief system.

Also, we don't need to "get the general population on board." Why would we need to do that? For support? We don't need their support. All we need to do is research, report, analyze and let them decide for themselves. To hell with seeking converts. If you want to do that, go to church.

In your Signature, you state:

Please keep your crazy ufo ideas to yourself. Just because its "cool" doesnt make it true. Crazy sounding Alien storys make the general public not take the subject serious... you do more harm then good.

Just what, may I ask, constitutes "crazy ufo ideas" to you? Is there a limit to the types of experiences we should hear? Should we, for example, reject John Mack's book "Abduction" because it contains "crazy ufo ideas"? Do you even know who John Mack was? And again, why do you think we need to worry about the general public? Why would you feel we need to filter UFO/ET stories just so they are acceptable to the public? Should public opinion be a factor in arriving at the truth or should we, instead, consider ALL possibilities, no matter how far-fetched, and investigate each on a case-by-case basis which would allow us to legitimately accept or reject even the most outrageous accounts of ET encounters?

reply to post by Chargeit


I dunno, I think some of us in the community think they're crackpots too mate

reply to post by Visiting ESB


ok. Sorry its early not answering all of that.

The reason we need the general public behind us is because popular belief is the only thing that could one day force the government to fully disclose all info they have on Aliens/UFOs. (assuming they aren't already telling the truth.)