Just Another "Coincidence" in God's world.

Our Lady of Guadalupe is the Patroness of all the Americas, but especially of Mexico. She is also the Patroness of some Catholic organizations, including the Knights of Columbus. A large number of "Coincidences" have been attributed to her. Her image has been through fire before and survived. This particular article was written June 14, 2012.

A fire destroyed a church in Juárez early Wednesday morning, but spared a Virgin of Guadalupe image, despite the fierce blaze, Juárez officials said today. The incident took place at about 4:04 a.m. on Wednesday, at San Agustín Chapel at Paseos del Alba and Paseos del Ángel Streets, Juárez Fire Department officials said.

"The fire tore down the whole church," said Cap. Martin Morales, of the Fire Department in Juárez, in a telephone interview. But the fire spared a Virgin of Guadalupe image inside the church. The beloved icon, 60 centimeters tall and one meter wide, was framed in wood.

The flames destroyed other images like St. Agustín and Jesus Christ, said Efrén Matamoros, Juárez Environmental Services and Civil Defense. "We had no explanation of that," Matamoros said. "The image had no protection at all." The fire also destroyed 40 pews, frames and several icons. No one was hurt.

www.elpasotimes.com...

Take a look at the picture in the article to see the ashes that are the remains of the church, and the image that is being held.

My only purpose in posting this is for the refreshment of those with faith, and the arousal of some curiosity in others.

“To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.”
St. Thomas Aquinas quotes (Scholastic philosopher and theologian, 1225-1274)

With respect,
Charles1952

Am I the only one that has no idea what the OP is getting at?

My only purpose in posting this is for the refreshment of those with faith, and the arousal of some curiosity in others.

Um... how is this? Is this a maze?

So nice of God to only burn down most of the church and not the whole thing.

TextThe flames destroyed other images like St. Agustín and Jesus Christ, said Efrén Matamoros, Juárez Environmental Services and Civil Defense. "We had no explanation of that," Matamoros said. "The image had no protection at all." The fire also destroyed 40 pews, frames and several icons. No one was hurt.

reply to post by charles1952


Some see a miracle with mother Mary who saved from the roaring flames by intervention of God and yet the likeness of Jesus is burned up. I see Satan at work , mother Mary is important but the catholic church has raised her status above Christ . I find it compelling that other Catholics do not see this , I am no longer a catholic after reading the bible and Vatican documents .

reply to post by FractalChaos13242017

Dear FractalChaos13242017,

Please forgive me, I wasn't intending to cause confusion. Our Lady of Guadalupe is the Patron, Guide, or Guard of Mexico. She is said to have appeared to a Mexican peasant, Juan Diego, centuries ago in the midst of what are recognized by many as miracles. Diego's cloak was left with an image of Our Lady which can be frequently seen throughout Latin America and many parts of the US.

The article points out that an image, or painting, of her was the only painting or icon that was not destroyed when a church burned to ash in a fire that the firemen believe was caused by an electrical problem. (You may want to look at the picture in the article.)

I hope people are intrigued and curious about this event. I further hope that people who already believe in Our Lady of Guadalupe take some encouragement from it.

Please ask whatever you'd like. I'm pretty sure I won't have the answer, but I'll look hard.

With respect,
Charles1952

omg!

Don't tell me, it's the surviving of a picture that is supposed to be some miracle, or strengthening of faith here?

WOW! Try a LITTLE HARDER next time!

I get enough out of just looking around me, seeing nature and all it's beauty. Some people have to look into the fire and see what pieces managed to have survived. To each, their own...

Charles... you don't see that as a false sign and wonder from the enemy? Consider why if it was from heaven the image of the Son of God wasn't preserved.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Charles... you don't see that as a false sign and wonder from the enemy? Consider why if it was from heaven the image of the Son of God wasn't preserved.

+1. I'd like to see this question answered.
Interesting that when Paul visited the Corinthians, he committed to preach nothing but "Christ, and Him crucified". THAT is the sign to an unbelieving world... "foolishness to those who are perishing".

Originally posted by Awen24

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Charles... you don't see that as a false sign and wonder from the enemy? Consider why if it was from heaven the image of the Son of God wasn't preserved.

+1. I'd like to see this question answered.
Interesting that when Paul visited the Corinthians, he committed to preach nothing but "Christ, and Him crucified". THAT is the sign to an unbelieving world... "foolishness to those who are perishing".

Amen. People often forget the enemy can also do miracles. Janes and Jambres anyone?

Though i detect sarcasm with the use of the word "Coincidence", that is probably exactly right. It's just coincidence.
To suggest that the survival of a picture helps the credibility of your faith along is completely ridiculous.. but i guess you will take whatever you can get to reassure yourself and others that there is an invisible man living in the sky....


I'm still hoping this is one big joke, otherwise, I guess I will have to accept that your theism is correct because a picture was spared in a fire.

I tried it. I took a picture of Our Lady of Guadalupe and set it on fire and it was a miracle......It burned up.

Bummer

Dear Gentlemen,

Please forgive my absence, allow me to start getting caught up. (I walked away from the machine for three minutes, came back and internet was gone. The storm we're in? IE 7? Some mysterious force?)

Some see a miracle with mother Mary who saved from the roaring flames by intervention of God and yet the likeness of Jesus is burned up. I see Satan at work , mother Mary is important but the catholic church has raised her status above Christ . I find it compelling that other Catholics do not see this

Most important things first. I know of no serious Catholic who puts Mary above Jesus. Jesus is God, Mary is not. Mary is not to be worshipped or treated as a God in any way. (She's super cool, though, isn't she?)

Mary has a special meaning for Latins. I can't claim to know it. Look at the fruit from this. I suspect it will uplift many Mexicans who are having a heck of a bad time in their country right now. I doubt you will be able to persuade me that Catholics are going to start seeing Mary as superior to Jesus. Sure, the destruction of a church is a bad thing, a bad result, but I really believe a stronger faith for some will come from it.

I admire your love for God. I wish some Catholics had the passion you do

Charles... you don't see that as a false sign and wonder from the enemy? Consider why if it was from heaven the image of the Son of God wasn't preserved.

Thank you for asking why. That's a very important question in life. Why was the church burned? Why did the Crucifix go up in smoke? Why St. Augustine's icon? Why are Christians being killed in Africa and the Middle East? After all, aren't they the image of God? Why are Bibles and churchs attacked and destroyed?

I would think that anything in that church should have been destroyed. Why wasn't the image? I'm guessing because who can know the mind of God. But will this speak particulary to the people of Mexico in a way that nothing else could? (Besides, would the people of ATS line up to join the Church even if the Crucifix was the item that didn't burn?)

With respect, and fraternal affection,
Charles1952

reply to post by FractalChaos13242017

Dear FractalChaos13242017,

Thanks for sticking around while I was out.

omg!

Is that god anyone I would know?

Don't tell me, it's the surviving of a picture that is supposed to be some miracle, or strengthening of faith here?

For some, I suspect it will be. Hey, one soul at a time. I'd settle for that.

WOW! Try a LITTLE HARDER next time!

I didn't try at all. I was strolling through Drudge looking for some political news and it jumped out at me. Thought I'd bring it here. that's all.

I get enough out of just looking around me, seeing nature and all it's beauty. Some people have to look into the fire and see what pieces managed to have survived. To each, their own...

St. Fancis was a big nature guy too. You might want to look up his stuff. Sure, to each his own. I just hope you picked right.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by Awen24

Dear Awen24,

Interesting that when Paul visited the Corinthians, he committed to preach nothing but "Christ, and Him crucified". THAT is the sign to an unbelieving world... "foolishness to those who are perishing".

You are absolutely right and I'm happy to see another brother. He also said to honor our Father and Mother. Catholics just throw a little of that honor to Mary, Jesus' mother.

But you are correct. Jesus is the source of our salvation and I'm glad Paul preached that there was no other sign to follow for it. As for the perishing seeing all this as foolishness, well . . . I'll be praying for ATS. (Whether they like it or not.)

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by TheCelestialHuman

Dear TheCelestialHuman,

Good to see you again, I always enjoy your approach. But I'm failing miserably in my attempt to write clearly. I don't believe I ever wrote that this event was intended to be a convincing argument for a religion. A single, modern, miracle (or coincidence if you prefer) is hardly what apologists and theologians hang their hats on.

Did you really think I was trying to prove the Incarnation, Resurrection, and Salvation with a piece of unburnt wood? I'll have to do better.

With respect,
Charles1952

I hear Christ's love in you. Thanks for your answer.

reply to post by charles1952


Then may I suggest reading some Francis Bacon

One of the chapters in special, "Cupid or the Atom", may be worthy of adding to Bacon's scientific philosophy, for analysing the hidden meaning of the fable of Cupid, he shows in it his vision on the nature of the atom, and therefore, of matter itself. He states that 'Love' is the force or "instinct" of primal matter, "the natural motion of the atom", "the summary law of nature, that impulse of desire impressed by God upon the primary particles of matter which makes them come together, and which by repetition and multiplication produces all the variety of nature", "a thing which mortal thought may glance at, but can hardly take in"

reply to post by FractalChaos13242017

Dear FractalChaos13242017,

Thanks for the suggestion, I haven't read him in a long time. I can easily enough look him up. Funny, though, I haven't rechecked the thread, but I don't remember talking about love. Oh well, it's probably not important. (Ooops! I don't mean love isn't important.) I also don't know of many Christians who regard the story of Cupid as anything but a piece of interesting historical story telling.

Please help me out, I'm not sure what your point is, but I don't think quarks are going out, getting married and raising a family of leptons (or whatever they're called).

But you've got a very good point if you're trying to say that God is love and God is everywhere, so love is everywhere. (Until we get into free will and stuff like that.) I'm just not sure of your message here.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by FractalChaos13242017

 

Dear FractalChaos13242017,

Thanks for the suggestion, I haven't read him in a long time. I can easily enough look him up. Funny, though, I haven't rechecked the thread, but I don't remember talking about love. Oh well, it's probably not important. (Ooops! I don't mean love isn't important.) I also don't know of many Christians who regard the story of Cupid as anything but a piece of interesting historical story telling.

Please help me out, I'm not sure what your point is, but I don't think quarks are going out, getting married and raising a family of leptons (or whatever they're called).

But you've got a very good point if you're trying to say that God is love and God is everywhere, so love is everywhere. (Until we get into free will and stuff like that.) I'm just not sure of your message here.

With respect,
Charles1952

The reference to Francis Bacon over St. Francis has to do with what type of individual I identify with. Which is in regards to my perception of the events. I'd rather focus on nature and all its glory, and the 'divine' creation of it all. As opposed to finding means of inspiring myself, and trying to find coincidences in every event. I guess, I'm just inspired as is, don't need the reassurances. I do still disagree that there is anything of significance in what you've presented.

Although I suppose that can be a complete lie, for I have myself researched multiple bible code theories, and other relating inquiries into the meaning behind the texts...

I guess, it's all about where someone is at in their relationship with what or who they deem to be 'God'.

Sorry if I offended...

Originally posted by SilentKoala
So nice of God to only burn down most of the church and not the whole thing.

Nice to know He can take the time to save a pic. Now if He can just find the time to feed those starving children of the world. Maybe help out with Fukishima, replace a few amputated limbs... You know, if He's not that busy.