Unbelieving preachers get help to 'come out' as open atheists

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Not so much, I comprehend how to mock and ridicule.
I even understand how to think for myself .
Though, sadly, that appears to be a rare commodity amongst the "found".

Originally posted by borntowatch
Murders? Sorry mate but thats not murder, thats judgement for sin. Death is the wages of sin and in Gods world He hands down the verdict.
Punishment for sin is death.
Thats the law.

And back we go to:

"Bow down to my beliefs or burn in Hell sinners!"

I love you bloody handed religious types. So sanctimonious, bleating about god's will when all you really want to do is enforce yours.

Originally posted by Noncompatible
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Not so much, I comprehend how to mock and ridicule.
I even understand how to think for myself .
Though, sadly, that appears to be a rare commodity amongst the "found".

Appeals to ridicule don't carry weight. They are a fallacy. Even amongst the unsaved folk. Plato anyone?

reply to post by jiggerj


It's not "murder" when God takes a life. Hello, thats part of the job of being God. Giver and taker of life. God isn't human. That whole soverignty thing... you know when we see another human acting all megolomatic-like and we ask them:

"Yo sucka, like who made you God, why didn't I get the memo?"


Can't ask that of the REAL God now can we? I mean let's be 100% honest here. You cant stand God because you are rebellious and don't want any rules to live by and don't like someone butting their head into where you get to insert your penis. Let's just be real alright?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I am entertaining myself alone. I appeal to nothing or no one.
Poking the anthill with a stick is sometimes done for mere amusement.

If it takes but gentle mockery to rock, then your faith is no rock but indeed a pebble on a beach.

Plato, a worthy scholar, has little relevance in a discourse about a monotheistic god he predated, even if many have stretched to attribute some of his statements to a foreshadowing of your deity.

Originally posted by Noncompatible
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I am entertaining myself alone. I appeal to nothing or no one.
Poking the anthill with a stick is sometimes done for mere amusement.

If it takes but gentle mockery to rock, then your faith is no rock but indeed a pebble on a beach.

Plato, a worthy scholar, has little relevance in a discourse about a monotheistic god he predated, even if many have stretched to attribute some of his statements to a foreshadowing of your deity.

Who's faith is rocked? When you folks mock us it just reminds us that our Lord said it would happen thousands of years ago. Why would fulfilled prophecy rock my faith??

And you sell Plato a tad short. All philosophy today is basically footnotes to Plato.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jiggerj

 

It's not "murder" when God takes a life. Hello, thats part of the job of being God. Giver and taker of life. God isn't human. That whole soverignty thing... you know when we see another human acting all megolomatic-like and we ask them:

"Yo sucka, like who made you God, why didn't I get the memo?"


Can't ask that of the REAL God now can we? I mean let's be 100% honest here. You cant stand God because you are rebellious and don't want any rules to live by and don't like someone butting their head into where you get to insert your penis. Let's just be real alright?

edit on 15-6-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Fine, fine, I give up. God kills and he's just wonderful. I love 'im. What a guy!
Oh, by the by? I received a message from god. He said he's going to kill you because Obama is an illegal president. Hey, don't ask me about the logic of it; god works in mysterious ways, right?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Noncompatible
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I am entertaining myself alone. I appeal to nothing or no one.
Poking the anthill with a stick is sometimes done for mere amusement.

If it takes but gentle mockery to rock, then your faith is no rock but indeed a pebble on a beach.

Plato, a worthy scholar, has little relevance in a discourse about a monotheistic god he predated, even if many have stretched to attribute some of his statements to a foreshadowing of your deity.

Who's faith is rocked? When you folks mock us it just reminds us that our Lord said it would happen thousands of years ago. Why would fulfilled prophecy rock my faith??

And you sell Plato a tad short. All philosophy today is basically footnotes to Plato.

edit on 15-6-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Hmm I'm fairly sure you just offended over half the planet. You know the ones who don't have a narrow view of philosophy built on a Western European bias.

Maybe you should broaden your view ?
Be careful though, an awful lot of it encompasses viewpoints that do not embrace your particular brand of deity.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Just remember what your Jesus said: 'Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone' or something like that. Meaning you're all sinners, and your god can cut any of you down any time.

Be afraid of this god. Be VERY afraid!

Meh, so what, He is my God and I will just be going home, I want that. The sooner the better, dont bother me sonshine.
Its my prayer, take me home Lord.

Originally posted by Noncompatible

And back we go to:

"Bow down to my beliefs or burn in Hell sinners!"

I love you bloody handed religious types. So sanctimonious, bleating about god's will when all you really want to do is enforce yours.

As you understand it, for me its Welcome home my beloved son, dont worry about all that negative stuff, I love you more than you can imagine.
Its just the atheists who harp on and on and on about punishment.
God promised me heaven and I have done nothing to deserve it.

If Hell was for sinners I would be there, Jesus chose me so I get a golden ticket.
I bow down because of love, not fear, not even a little bit. Thats an atheist lie.

Originally posted by jiggerj


Fine, fine, I give up. God kills and he's just wonderful. I love 'im. What a guy!
Oh, by the by? I received a message from god. He said he's going to kill you because Obama is an illegal president. Hey, don't ask me about the logic of it; god works in mysterious ways, right?

I bet you are the type who would let a murderer or paedophile or a criminal walk off scott free, justice is evil isnt it.

Originally posted by smyleegrl

I'm glad to hear you are secure in your faith and have found peace. That's wonderful.

Please don't disparage my schooling. I attended a private Christian college on a full academic scholarship, had multiple papers published during this time, and graduated with a 4.0 and top in my major. I'm not trying to brag, just stating this so you'll know my credentials.

The funny thing about going to college: before I left home several of the older folks in my church cautioned me that "too much learning hampers faith.". I found that so odd. How could learning about your religion hinder your faith?

When you spend four years studying comparative religions, biblical philosophy and history, religious history, etc you very quickly come to the point where you are forced to closely examine your own cherished beliefs. That examination can be brutal.

There are countless things I learned that cause me concern with Christianity IN ITS CURRENT FORM. I also grew very tired of the deliberate ignorance so many of my fellow students displayed and vehemently defended. For example, one young man contended that the earth was about 6,000 years old b/c that's the age if you calculate based on Genesis. When we asked him about dinosaur fossils and the like, he replied that God put them there to test our faith. I can't even fathom that argument, it makes no sense.

I don't want to do a point by point thesis about the inconsistencies in the Bible; frankly, it seems rather pointless. I'm not trying to convince or persuade anyone, just expressing my experiences and disillusionment.

I'll end with a quote from Socrates. "The unexamined life is not worth living.". This has become one of my personal hallmarks and I spend a lot of time in personal reflection. I do believe there is...something out there. My perusal in higher science has actually bolstered this belief. But defining that something in human terms...I don't know if that's possible.

I tire of lazy Christians ex Christians who swallow whatever they are taught by the secular world. The whole principle of Christianity is to examine your faith, maybe you missed that sunday school lesson.
I am tired of atheists deliberate ignorance. The earth can only be 7 to 9 thousand years old, there is so much evidence that proves this fact that its ridiculous to think otherwise. People like you scare me, believe what a scientists who gets paid to teach what will make him more money is authoritive.

Can you explain living dinosaurs, multi million year fossils that have living descendants today. The fossil record is wrong, its that simple. I am not trying to win you over just teach you are delusional
www.youtube.com...
But hey you know everything so I will leave it with you.

Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by jiggerj


Fine, fine, I give up. God kills and he's just wonderful. I love 'im. What a guy!
Oh, by the by? I received a message from god. He said he's going to kill you because Obama is an illegal president. Hey, don't ask me about the logic of it; god works in mysterious ways, right?

I bet you are the type who would let a murderer or paedophile or a criminal walk off scott free, justice is evil isnt it.

According to Jesus, you're a sinner. So, if you have a sin on your soul and die in a car crash before asking for forgiveness, you're goin' to hell. That's god's rule. Gotta lub em'!

Originally posted by jiggerj

According to Jesus, you're a sinner.

By the blood of Jesus, we have been made sinless. It's not that we don't sin, and it's not that we will never sin again...it's that, when we sin, we have an advocate who puts himself in our place. The wages (that is, the deserved payment) for sin is death. Jesus died without sin so that all who put their faith in him wouldn't be overcome by death.

Do you honestly think that we actually have to confess every sin we commit in order to be forgiven for it? That's ridiculous (not to mention Roman Catholic, which is the epitome of Christian ridiculousness). Jesus died once for all sin. His death and resurrection have given him authority over all sin.

Originally posted by CLPrime

Originally posted by jiggerj

According to Jesus, you're a sinner.

By the blood of Jesus, we have been made sinless. It's not that we don't sin, and it's not that we will never sin again...it's that, when we sin, we have an advocate who puts himself in our place. The wages (that is, the deserved payment) for sin is death. Jesus died without sin so that all who put their faith in him wouldn't be overcome by death.

Do you honestly think that we actually have to confess every sin we commit in order to be forgiven for it? That's ridiculous (not to mention Roman Catholic, which is the epitome of Christian ridiculousness). Jesus died once for all sin. His death and resurrection have given him authority over all sin.

Who is "we"?
I think "we" is everybody regardless of their religion or lack of religion. I think when we die, we must humble ourselves before Jesus and ask for mercy. The eye of the needle is giving up all pretence of righteousness before Jesus - that includes being born-again, spirit-filled, baptised, good, etc.

Originally posted by CLPrime

Originally posted by jiggerj

According to Jesus, you're a sinner.

By the blood of Jesus, we have been made sinless. It's not that we don't sin, and it's not that we will never sin again...it's that, when we sin, we have an advocate who puts himself in our place. The wages (that is, the deserved payment) for sin is death. Jesus died without sin so that all who put their faith in him wouldn't be overcome by death.

Do you honestly think that we actually have to confess every sin we commit in order to be forgiven for it? That's ridiculous (not to mention Roman Catholic, which is the epitome of Christian ridiculousness). Jesus died once for all sin. His death and resurrection have given him authority over all sin.

Then why does it seem like such an emergency for priests to administer the last rites to the dying? Well, that's the way it appears in the movies, anyway.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
We're saved by grace remember?

edit on 14-6-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

I would actually know nothing about it. But I'll take your word for it. Life would be a lot simpler if more people were unafraid to admit they don't know, and they are just searching.

reply to post by jiggerj


Because the Roman Catholic religion (including as portrayed in the movies) has veered so far away from Scripture it's unreal. The Pope and his hoard are modern-day Pharisees, showing off their wealth and their "special connection" to God. No one can use his or her own wealth, wisdom, or works to gain favour with God. Another poster, above, mentioned humility. That's the key.

But don't mistake humility for a passive view of God's Word. Being humble is one thing. Allowing corruption to overtake Scripture is another.

Also, that same poster indicated that humility is possible even after death. Consider a scenario in which everyone, at death, comes face-to-face with God and is left with no choice but to fall in complete humility at his feet. Everyone faces his own torment -- emotional dejection, resulting directly from his or her own rejection of God in life. This sort of self-inflicted torment...it sounds a lot like the Lake of Fire in Revelation 20. Except, of course, it's not literal fire and it's not eternal torment. It's a cleansing fire of anguish at coming face-to-face with Truth -- anguish leading to repentance.

Of course, that's the Universalist view, in which everybody who has ever lived is ultimately saved by the cleansing power of the blood of Christ. Not saying I believe it (and not saying I don't)...just saying it's a view that exists.

Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Because the Roman Catholic religion (including as portrayed in the movies) has veered so far away from Scripture it's unreal. The Pope and his hoard are modern-day Pharisees, showing off their wealth and their "special connection" to God. No one can use his or her own wealth, wisdom, or works to gain favour with God. Another poster, above, mentioned humility. That's the key.

But don't mistake humility for a passive view of God's Word. Being humble is one thing. Allowing corruption to overtake Scripture is another.

Also, that same poster indicated that humility is possible even after death. Consider a scenario in which everyone, at death, comes face-to-face with God and is left with no choice but to fall in complete humility at his feet. Everyone faces his own torment -- emotional dejection, resulting directly from his or her own rejection of God in life. This sort of self-inflicted torment...it sounds a lot like the Lake of Fire in Revelation 20. Except, of course, it's not literal fire and it's not eternal torment. It's a cleansing fire of anguish at coming face-to-face with Truth -- anguish leading to repentance.

Of course, that's the Universalist view, in which everybody who has ever lived is ultimately saved by the cleansing power of the blood of Christ. Not saying I believe it (and not saying I don't)...just saying it's a view that exists.

edit on 15-6-2012 by CLPrime because: (no reason given)

Have to say that if I believed in any of that crap, what you wrote would make more sense than the rest of the crap.

reply to post by jiggerj


In all honesty (and, again, whether I believe it or not), what I wrote gives the greatest recognition of authority to Christ.

In the modern version of Hell, non-believers are tortured for eternity. It doesn't matter how "good" you were...if you don't believe in Jesus, you get tortured in Hell forever. Some say that it's different levels of torture, but I would say, over an eternity, all levels of torture feel the same. Not to mention the fact that keeping sinners to be tortured in Hell actually keeps sin in existence, which is in opposition to the plan of God to remove sin from all of Creation. Hell is a part of Creation, so sinners alive in Hell would deny the removal of sin from Creation.

Then there's the Annihilation view, which says that all non-believers are tortured for some period of time proportional to their level of sinfulness, and then they are removed entirely from existence. This is much closer to being Scriptural than the "Hell" view above, but there are a couple issues. For example, torture followed by annihilation is hardly worth the effort. Why bother torturing someone just to remove them from existence? What does it accomplish?

Both of these also stop short of attributing all saving power and authority to Christ. Did Jesus come and die to save but a few of all those who have ever lived? Or did he come and die for all? It's interesting that Scripture says he came and died for all. Of course, we get around this by saying that, while he did die for all, not all will accept it, and those who don't will be eternally punished. It's interesting to note, then, that Hell is a punishment for not believing in Christ. It can't be a punishment for sin, because the result of sin is death. Jesus suffered this result, but he didn't go to Hell (there is no Scriptural support for such a view)...he just died, and was in the tomb for 3 days, before he was raised from the dead. If Hell is a punishment for sin and Jesus didn't go to Hell, then Jesus didn't pay the full price for sin. But, of course, he did. Jesus died, and Hell cannot be a punishment for sin.
That means that Hell must be a punishment for rejecting Jesus. And this is so anti-Scriptural it's not even funny. There is no punishment for rejecting Jesus. Jesus, himself, said that he didn't come to condemn the world but that through him the world would be saved. The reason: the world was already condemned by its sin. There is no further condemnation. The only thing left is to be saved through Jesus by the limitless Grace of God.

At least, that's my take on the whole thing.