Question about alien space travel

Ok this might not make sense at all but I had this idea about how aliens can travel far distances. So what if a civilization developed time travel... could it be possible they could travel back in time to when the universe was much smaller, then somehow travel in time while being expanded with it until they arrived at lets say earth where it is in the present time?

like I said it might not make sense but if anyone understands a reply would be sweet

Originally posted by ZeroMax
Ok this might not make sense at all but I had this idea about how aliens can travel far distances. So what if a civilization developed time travel... could it be possible they could travel back in time to when the universe was much smaller, then somehow travel in time while being expanded with it until they arrived at lets say earth where it is in the present time?

like I said it might not make sense but if anyone understands a reply would be sweet

I'll tell ya one thing, it's interesting. I'm trying to wrap my head around and I'll probably fall asleep thinking about it. Even if it's total bunk it's still very creative. S&F

sorta like if i travel back in time to when africa and north america were connected hop over to africa and then travel back to the present so i wouldnt have to fly?

reply to post by ZeroMax
Cool idea and original.

I think one of the problems of this would be *where* our time travellers would re-emerge in the early universe? Appearing in a large mass would mean instant death and maybe change the course of their history.

Also, back in those early days, the Universe (in theory) was still incredibly big and many of the galaxies and planetary systems (like ours) wouldn't have been there to travel to.

I get what you're saying. But the spacetime, how would they have travelled the distance? You'd have to somehow follow the evolution as stated in the big bangs outwards expansion.. by that I mean literally follow the place in which you'd want to be, by means of magnetic attraction or something similiar?

Have a look into stars and what causes a supernova, the explosion is massive, and I'm sure lightspeed if not faster could easily be used here. It makes me wonder if an advanced civilization could somehow control that force and use it to project themselves accross the galaxy, as shooting stars do. Makes you wonder hey? Especially with the idea being tossed around that our sun is a device for space travel.

reply to post by ZeroMax


I gave you a S&F for making my brain hurt. Good question, one I'll be thinking about for a bit.....

Des

Originally posted by ZeroMax
Ok this might not make sense at all but I had this idea about how aliens can travel far distances. So what if a civilization developed time travel... could it be possible they could travel back in time to when the universe was much smaller, then somehow travel in time while being expanded with it until they arrived at lets say earth where it is in the present time?

like I said it might not make sense but if anyone understands a reply would be sweet

that makes COMPLETE SENSE!!



go backwards in time, fly to the edge of the smaller universe, ( MASSIVE complicated calculations required )

(VERY exact calculations )

and then ride the expansion like a sail boat to where you want to go, while time traveling forward!

(riding the expansion to their destination while also time traveling forward would most likely require that they be constantly dipping in and out of "time travel, and not time travel"

they would need to be in a constant state of time traveling, while also not traveling. like half and half.


i don't think that they would just go back in time, and NOT time travel forward, because that would require them to sleep a long time, which kind of defeats the purpose, but as long as it worked, and they reached their destination safely, it would technically work.


AND IN THEORY: it would technically be possible for the aliens to travel so much, that they are OLDER than the universe.


VERY interesting OP thank you!

you opened my mind!

reply to post by ZeroMax



Interesting thought, but......the calculations still point to a "Zero-Sum" outlook:

....could it be possible they could travel back in time to when the universe was much smaller, then somehow travel in time while being expanded with it until they arrived at lets say earth where it is in the present time?

Problem is.....the Universe (and all space within it) is expanding.....per the most recent theoretical and mathematical understandings.

Very complicated to describe, in words. Still......IF the "time travel" aspect is inserted...?? Hmmmm.......

There still remains a co-ordinate aspect to work out.....meaning, even IF the "time travel" to go "back" were possible......one would have to ALSO specify a location as well.....in three-dimensional space.....into 3D-space that one would have no prior references for.....because of the "time travel"....

....seems a complex, and possibly insurmountable problem of....um....mathematics...

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by ZeroMax

 

Cool idea and original.

I think one of the problems of this would be *where* our time travellers would re-emerge in the early universe? Appearing in a large mass would mean instant death and maybe change the course of their history.

Also, back in those early days, the Universe (in theory) was still incredibly big and many of the galaxies and planetary systems (like ours) wouldn't have been there to travel to.

that's so simple, all they would have to do, is set a check point for them selves in the future.


they must come back on etc. etc. date and time at that specific place AFTER going on a mission through space and time, or a message is sent to them (before they went) to tell them to "not go in the first place" because something went wrong.


^_^

Originally posted by PluPerfect
reply to post by ZeroMax

 

Interesting thought, but......the calculations still point to a "Zero-Sum" outlook:

....could it be possible they could travel back in time to when the universe was much smaller, then somehow travel in time while being expanded with it until they arrived at lets say earth where it is in the present time?

Problem is.....the Universe (and all space within it) is expanding.....per the most recent theoretical and mathematical understandings.

Very complicated to describe, in words. Still......IF the "time travel" aspect is inserted...?? Hmmmm.......

There still remains a co-ordinate aspect to work out.....meaning, even IF the "time travel" to go "back" were possible......one would have to ALSO specify a location as well.....in three-dimensional space.....into 3D-space that one would have no prior references for.....because of the "time travel"....

....seems a complex, and possibly insurmountable problem of....um....mathematics...

OH WOW interesting!!!

i had a thought!

the problem would arise that if they were in the universe, and went back, they would have to make sure they didn't arrive OUTSIDE of the universe, before it had expanded to that point!


1 new way discovered to break out of the universe.

reply to post by ZeroMax


Yeah. But no.... They don't do it that way.

Good thinking! Certainly new in the realm of the whole shebang!

But it does bring with it problems of it's own.

Which is more difficult; Creating a device that can warp space/time and effectively fold space into itself in order to take 1 step and travel light years, or

creating a time machine to travel back in time to when the universe was smaller, for a split moment, in order to travel distances far greater now than they were in history.

Both equally end up in the improbable for many reasons basket.

Travel back in time and if you simply alter one small rock that might carry certain requirements to create life in the first place, you risk wiping out all life. When you return to your time, but in a different location, would there be anything left? If that is, you follow the non-paradox time travel theory. If you follow the paradoxical idea, you end up wiping yourself out, and not splitting off into a separate time line, which would still make accurate travel impractical.

OR

build a machine that can warp space/time. The energy required would certainly eradicate any life operating it, even if you could break the boundaries of physics and create infinite energy to create infinite mass. or whatever that fuzzy headed bloke said. that daft postal clerk, whatsisname.. Einstein..

But it's refreshing to have logical thought out there.

S&F

reply to post by mainidh


see my comment for solutions!

Originally posted by SoymilkAlaska


that's so simple, all they would have to do, is set a check point for them selves in the future.


they must come back on etc. etc. date and time at that specific place AFTER going on a mission through space and time, or a message is sent to them (before they went) to tell them to "not go in the first place" because something went wrong.


^_^

reply to post by Tarno


That's an interesting point.

Do we allow the expanding universe theory to play with it? Where it's not just flying outwards, but the very fabric of space is stretching outwards?

If we do, then simply being in that position, you wouldn't have to travel; just allow time to speed forwards and we'd be carried along with the fabric of space.

But seeing as they say the entire cosmos was the size of a proton, and for a very long time complete mass and energy, I'd still wonder about the ability to survive for even a nanosecond and the effects of interference.

Originally posted by mainidh
reply to post by Tarno

 

That's an interesting point.

Do we allow the expanding universe theory to play with it? Where it's not just flying outwards, but the very fabric of space is stretching outwards?

If we do, then simply being in that position, you wouldn't have to travel; just allow time to speed forwards and we'd be carried along with the fabric of space.

But seeing as they say the entire cosmos was the size of a proton, and for a very long time complete mass and energy, I'd still wonder about the ability to survive for even a nanosecond and the effects of interference.

YES exactly! please see my comments!!


edit: why is everyone ignoring me

reply to post by ZeroMax


Space and time are intertwined, a function of each other.

The power to make the dimension of time irrelevant would also be equal to the power to make other (spatial) dimensions irrelevant.

Although the universe towards the big bang would be smaller in physical extent, it would be highly compressed and energetic.

I believe that the universe would be to hot and the gravitational tidal forces too great to allow spatially decompressed objects as we are now to exist comfortably within it.

something about contracting/compressing the space at the "front" of the vehicle and expanding at the "rear". technically the ship doesn't move, the space around the ship does.

reply to post by 1beerplease

Yah.
Theoretically easier to wiggle spacetime than to time travel but neither is a piece of cake. Assuming you could actually figure out how to do either the amount of energy required would amount to the total annihilation of several stars (at least).

Originally posted by ZeroMax
Ok this might not make sense at all but I had this idea about how aliens can travel far distances. So what if a civilization developed time travel... could it be possible they could travel back in time to when the universe was much smaller, then somehow travel in time while being expanded with it until they arrived at lets say earth where it is in the present time?

like I said it might not make sense but if anyone understands a reply would be sweet

Time travel?

What if?

If a being could actually master time travel/wormholes/lightspeed they would be God like.

Would you really want to be alive if they really existed.


Your question doesn't make any sense.

The notion of so-called time dilation can make perfect sense in the context the so-called zero-point field, in that traveling through it at high speed is like encountering wind resistance, in this case of a type that can slow all physical processes, right down to the orbiting of electrons, etc., not to mention any clocks you may have, creating the illusion of slowing of the passage of time itself in relation to that back on Earth, making one speculate that going faster than light could result in time travel, which is unlikely to be the case but helps make science fiction fun and helps recruit students to study what might otherwise be considered a boring subject. And as far as exceeding lightspeed for space travel, that becomes possible if you create a system for extremely efficient capture of zero-point energy, since what causes that drag and lightspeed limit would be what you're grabbing from the environment as fuel in front of you, while discarding waste energy behind you, where it's helping speed you up rather than slow you down. FLT based on that approach would not involve time dilation or g-force when accelerating or decelerating or making high-speed right-angle turns. That’s exactly what has been described by those who, unlike the rest of us, sit in cockpits and watch the sky in the course of doing their daily work and how flying saucers must work if they are indeed real rather than the hallucinations or lies of pilots, their passengers, radar operators, police, etc.

It takes a whole new, radical approach (hopefully not involving ghosts or interdimensionality). Without even worrying about UFOs, physicists are beating themselves up over lack of understanding of the quantum nature of gravity (which is probably due to lack of data rather than imagination/brain power). Here's a little quote (perhaps an exaggeration!) in this regard from the Web site of Vienna University of Technology:

The cosmological constant problem entails a gigantic discrepancy (123 orders of magnitude) between observation and naive theoretical expectation, and so far no satisfying explanation exists that resolves this discrepancy.

itp.tuwien.ac.at...

And by the way, yes, we can assume that most UFO photos are fake, but we do have a few taken by police officers dispatched in response to numerous phone calls from citizens.