A $20 Theft and the state of today's youth. A personal experience.

Today I was witness to something I would never consider happening. To think that this was a correct and somehow justifiable action has me scratching my head in amazement, and wondering where the hell have our youth gone?

So today I’m at our local supermarket buying a few things, and at one of the self-serve checkouts. I paid for my items, and got an extra $20 out of the machine. Now due to my own stupidity, my kids endlessly bantering at me, the phone ringing, etc, I walked away without picking up my $20 note. (Largely my own stupidity I’ll freely admit.)

I got about half way home when I realised I had left behind my money, so as soon as I got in the door, I rang the supermarket to see if the money may have been still in the tray, or even someone had returned it to the attendant. Sadly no luck, the money was gone. The Store Manager, whom I know personally offered to check the CCTV covering the self-serve machines and see if they could see where the money went. I ended the conversation, fearing my $20 was lost.

About three hours later I received a phone call from the Store Manager, saying my money had been recovered, and to come down to the store and collect it. This is where it got disheartening for me.
It turns out there had been two twelve year old sisters standing near me when I made my purchases and saw that I had left the $20. After I walked away, before the checkout attendant could see this, they quickly grabbed and stashed the money, and left. Right in full view of the cameras no less.

Twelve years old!

Luckily the attendant knew the girls mother and rang her right away. The mother confronted her daughters and they confessed, and returned the money. They were then made to march back to the store and return the money to the Store Manager, who basically let them have it, banning them from the store without their mother being in there with them, and warning them they were lucky they didn’t have the Police called on them.

After all this subsided I was returned my $20 with apologies from the store, even though I’ll be the first to admit it was my fault. But the thing here that just beats all, is this is not just some kid finding $20 on the walk home or out in the car park. I could almost understand that. This was a deliberate and intentional theft of money. Those girls knew full well that was someone else’s cash, and would have probably known they were on camera also. I mean there’s a giant TV above the area streaming live video at all times. Yet they still took it. To me, they might have just as well as stolen it out my own hands.

Sadly the Store Manager informed me this is not the only occurence, they have had numerous thefts from the self-serves, including a middle-aged man who stole $40 that another customer left behind. This one did involve the Police, and charges were filed.

This makes me wonder the most, above all else, what is the youth of today coming to? Now I know some of you will say “they’re not all bad,” and I do agree. There are bad and good, in every generation, young and old. But what kind of slippery slope is our youth on when a twelve year old thinks it is ok to blatantly steal in such a manner?

My own daughter is only ten, and I would hope to God (for her sake), she would be above such things. I know full well she would be cautious knowing if I found out she had been up to such behaviour, there would be hell to pay.
To me now though, it seems that last little bit of innocence we believe our children to have is gone, that if this, and other current trends continue among our youth, our next generation, where will be in 20 years time? A dark place I’d rather not think about.

Thats a disheartening story :/

I know what you mean though, a lot of kids don't seem to be put off by stuff like that.

Had a little squirt that cant have been older than 11-12 saying "oi mysize, get us some fags from that shop" the other day which dimmed my outlook on kids a bit...

I never did any of that stuff, I used to be the first one that got cold feet, got called a whimp for it, then again I've never had problems with law enforcement or with my parents about it so I'm happy I stayed away.

Peace

reply to post by 74Templar

This makes me wonder the most, above all else, what is the youth of today coming to? Now I know some of you will say “they’re not all bad,” and I do agree. There are bad and good, in every generation, young and old. But what kind of slippery slope is our youth on when a twelve year old thinks it is ok to blatantly steal in such a manner?

Are you kidding me? It's called "finders keepers".

You left it behind. Meaning you didn't want it anymore (or forgot it). I would not care if it were mine because I would want myself to learn the lesson to not be so forgetful.

The worst part is that because "there are cameras there" you say the girls should somehow think of it more criminal than you already classify it.

So I'm curious, two hundred years ago you leave a gold coin on a tavern seat by mistake, the fellow that finds it is less of a criminal because there were no cameras on him?


---
Sorry if I sound harsh Templar, nothing personal, just my view on the situation.

They're being taught that "your loss is my gain". Morals are something that is going by the wayside, and, if you look around, a lot of the most successful people are those that are cut-throat and tend to be morally ambivalent.

reply to post by 74Templar

To be fair, kids have always gotten up to mischief only lately the opportunities for that mischief have exponentially increased, along with the consequences of that mischief.

My parents have stories of stealing apples from the farmer's orchard and being found out. (Hardly exciting or lucrative by today's standards.) They were punished for their actions and (hopefully) learned their lessons at the right time, a young age.

With the sex, drugs, guns, gangs and all the rest of our modern society, sometimes there doesn't seem to be much room left for childlike things.

Finders keepers would also not seem to be so black and white as it possibly used to be.

Whatever happened to the days of, if it aint yours don't touch it.....When you have parents that are wanting to be the kids friend more than a parent is the problem, I've always heard if a child says, I hate you, or just don't like their parents means, your doing your job right.

Raise your kids not the system.

reply to post by boncho

Are you kidding me? It's called "finders keepers".

Exactly. The kids did not steal a thing. You leave money laying aroung someone will pick it up.

I was walking along with a chick I know a while ago and she noticed a 50 had been left at an ATM. She grabbed it and went to take it inside, forgetting it was a public holiday. Then she said she would bring it to the bank after the weekend. I told her she was too nice and the Bank Tellers will buy lunch with it. I told her to keep it because if someone is too stupid to pick their money up then bad luck. Finders keepers.

The chick probably did take the money back knowing her.

Originally posted by LightSpeedDriver
reply to post by 74Templar

 

Finders keepers would also not seem to be so black and white as it possibly used to be.

Actually it is. If you notice the only convictions were in cases of trust: Either by business establishments or employees.

In cases similar to the OP no guilt was found:

and cases where the circumstances were held to show no larceny:
R. v. Wood (1848) 3 Cox C. C. 277 (banknote found on open land)
R. v. Dixon (1855) 7 Cox C. C. 35, 25 L. J. M. C. 39 (lost note without mark)
R. v. Shea (1856) 7 Cox C. C. 147; R. v. Christopher (1858) Bell C. C. 27, 169 E. R. 1153 (unmarked notes and purse found in public place)

The cases listed, suggests more so that the establishment would be guilty should it choose to keep the bank note. Although, a picture of a lost note in the entrance asking for ownership might receive more than one call for a claim.



In any case, if it were my bill I would not want to see young girls in trouble over it. Had they handed it in, so be it. But should they choose to keep it, eventually they will lose their own somewhere and the universe will even itself out.

reply to post by 74Templar

it was my fault. But the thing here that just beats all, is this is not just some kid finding $20 on the walk home or out in the car park. I could almost understand that.

i would act the same way (mid 20) and grab the money but with the knowledge that there are cams


maybe you dont realize that money is money and we are all greedy - theft is pickpocketing or shoplifting...if you lose it its your own fault and so i can grab it (technicly not but we talk about daily life)...if it happens in the park it happens in the park, if you lost your change in a vending machine its lost, if you lose it at a store its free for all...all the same thing...

Theft of property has been around since property ownership began.
Or you could say since money was invented...

Children, teenagers, and adult alike...all have an urge to help themselves.
If a child finds anything of value, it immediately assumes ownership.
Rational thinking tells a person, or child, to look for the owner first.
This is where the adult mentality surfaces.
I don't think children produce rational thoughts until their late teens/early 20's.
So adults have no excuse to steal.
They know it's wrong.

The "finders keepers" mentality should only come up when no one is around to claim it.
I learned the hard way about false claims:

This is no strange occurance and it isn't anything new.

Years ago I found a $5 on the ground whilst at work.
I walked around and asked everyone around me if it was theirs.
A younger (20's) guy reached in his empty pocket and said, "Yeah it's mine."
So I handed it to him and went on my way.
Well, about an hour later, an older woman called and said she dropped $5.
It fell out of her purse and she knew the area she lost it, and everything.
I told her that someone claimed it, but I'd give her $5 because I gave it away.
That piece of scum earlier lied to me and took the money for himself.
I was slightly agitated but there was nothing I could do.


So much for honesty.

Get over it! they took $20 big woop. You say they were 12 like its worse, when infact the reason they most likely did it was because they were 12. Everyone makes mistakes ( even if its over a petty $20). You probably spent more money in gas to drive back! Like i said get over it not everything in peoples life need to go on ATS, there is worse crap going on in this world to complain about then some $20 bill you left which was your fault.

reply to post by boncho

Fair enough but the cases you were quoted were either on open land or unmarked and in a public place. I am guessing this 20 dollar bill was still on the counter or in the immediate area, not lying on the floor minding its own business. One could reason with difficulty I think that it was theirs for the (lawful) taking.

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by 74Templar

This makes me wonder the most, above all else, what is the youth of today coming to? Now I know some of you will say “they’re not all bad,” and I do agree. There are bad and good, in every generation, young and old. But what kind of slippery slope is our youth on when a twelve year old thinks it is ok to blatantly steal in such a manner?

 

Are you kidding me? It's called "finders keepers".

You left it behind. Meaning you didn't want it anymore (or forgot it). I would not care if it were mine because I would want myself to learn the lesson to not be so forgetful.

The worst part is that because "there are cameras there" you say the girls should somehow think of it more criminal than you already classify it.

So I'm curious, two hundred years ago you leave a gold coin on a tavern seat by mistake, the fellow that finds it is less of a criminal because there were no cameras on him?


---
Sorry if I sound harsh Templar, nothing personal, just my view on the situation.

edit on 11-6-2012 by boncho because: (no reason given)

No you are right there, and I am used to your harshness by now B

That's why I was quick to point out if I had've lost the money, then it was my loss. As I said, if I'd dropped it in the carpark, then it's my own stupidity, something I pointed out.

The fact was that these kids saw that I had left the money, and grabbed it basically out of the till. It was their intention, not their crime that has me a bit flabbergasted. The fact that they knew full well it was someone else's money and their intention was to take it, regardless of security or the ability to do the right thing.

I have to admit I have been a "finder's keeper" myself, I mean if I found a $20 in the car park, and no one was around to claim it, then yes, it's finder keepers. But to see someone leave something behind, and it is clearly theirs, then no. I would return it.

reply to post by 74Templar


If they knew that you had just left it and then took it then you still should of let it go! its called morals and they didnt have any at the moment. I much rather would of have the manager see who it was but NOT brought them in and keep the money. Then 6 years from now i would of gave them a call and asked them how there life was going! its called karma and its stinks. They could of very easily looked back 2 years from now and think " Darn i sure wish i would of ran to the parking lot and gave that person there bill back".

reply to post by 74Templar


That's fair enough. Similar to hyenas waiting around for someone else to do the hard part. In any case, not all kids have inherent alarms to chase someone down when they lose money, and sometimes that can be a good thing as well. In the sense that kids who believe everything they are told is "right" are probably the most brainwashed.

You and Lightspeed both have a point.

Cheers.

reply to post by Newagekid2012


Actually the circumstances dictated the outcome more than my crying for the loss of $20, something I stated about three times. I rang back to see if the money was still in the till, or if someone else (including the attendant) had found it. It was only the fact that the money was gone, and the attendant knew the girls mother that any further action was taken.

Re-read the entire OP. It's not about the money. Twenty bucks is twenty bucks, I don't give a damn about the money. It's more about the intention to knowingly steal something from someone that bothered me. The outcome and the events leading to it are largely irrelevant except for the story.

And as for karma? As it turns out the money the person was intended for was let go of because I gave her a almost brand new bed three weks before. Now I have a spare $20. I might just do the karmic thing and charitise it

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by 74Templar

 

That's fair enough. Similar to hyenas waiting around for someone else to do the hard part. In any case, not all kids have inherent alarms to chase someone down when they lose money, and sometimes that can be a good thing as well. In the sense that kids who believe everything they are told is "right" are probably the most brainwashed.

You and Lightspeed both have a point.

Cheers.

I'll be the first to admit there are good kids and bad kids in every generation. About the same age I got caught stealing junk from local shops. It had no value, just wanted to see if I could do it. I got caught eventually. Marhced back to the store, made to apologise, and then got the beating of a lifetime from the old man.

I guess I could go one step further and say the mother of these two is the one to thanks, for having the right attitude to want to teach her daughters the difference between right and wrong. She could have just as easily told her kids to keep the money, or not said anything.

A while back where I live, a woman was arrested because she did a similar thing. The man in line in front of her dropped some cash, which turned out to be a considerable sum, and she picked it up and pocketed it. The thing is, she saw it happen and did not say anything. Now the right thing to have done would have been to say here, you dropped this and given it back. In my opinion, she stole it as she saw it happen and could have refined it directly to the man...it was not a case of finding a bill on the floor or sidewalk. Her excuse was that she needed the money more than he did. Well how the heck would she know that? Maybe that was all the man had in this day and age. People are dirt bags.

But I did once find a nice sized was of cash on the floor in the supermarket but turned it in to the customer service desk. As soon as I did so I really did sort of regret it but only because I thought, they wont keep it and probably pocketed it. But I felt I did the right thing and can't be responsible for someone doing the wrong thing later.

The girls should have just turned it in. Granted the op left it, but what if someone had taken three steps away and turned around to retrieve it and caught them in the act?

I understand the finders keepers rule in a park or on a sidewalk, but people don't do the right thing many times...not just kids.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by Germanicus
reply to post by boncho

 

Are you kidding me? It's called "finders keepers".

Exactly. The kids did not steal a thing. You leave money laying aroung someone will pick it up.

I was walking along with a chick I know a while ago and she noticed a 50 had been left at an ATM. She grabbed it and went to take it inside, forgetting it was a public holiday. Then she said she would bring it to the bank after the weekend. I told her she was too nice and the Bank Tellers will buy lunch with it. I told her to keep it because if someone is too stupid to pick their money up then bad luck. Finders keepers.

The chick probably did take the money back knowing her.

So what if the guy who was taking his money out had, just literally, walked away. Was like, 10 paces away? Not left, with no one around, but was just walking away. Becasue that is the point here, not the money.
Would you return it then? Or would you say TS and keep it?

While you're probably right, banks would probably just "file" it accordingly, it was the intention of it that bothered me. If I found a $50 sitting in an ATM, then yes finder's keepers. Different story if the note's owner is less than five metres away.

Sorry, I don't think it's "stealing" if someone forgets their change.

This is your fault, not the 12 year old's. Sure, it may have been dishonest if they knew it was yours, as you claim.. But it's possible they didn't even make that connection. They are 12.

I'm going to tell my kids tonight that if they find change in the change slot of a candy machine, soda machine, payphone, self-service cash register, etc, it's theirs. If some fool is going to leave their change I don't think anyone else has a responsibility to track them down and give it back.

As we used to say when I was a wee little guy: Finders keepers.


I personally think you should track down these 12 year olds and apologize for your actions that caused them to get in trouble. YOU left the money, and once you left the premises it was no longer your money, in my opinion. This was NOT stealing.