My opinion on UFOs as a research scientist: some are extraterrestrial

reply to post by Vandelay Industries


Dear Vandalay,
I wish you didn't loathe yourself that is just terrible. Where is your mother! Huh!

I don't mind the lack of paragraph indention. Its a lot of words and being hyperactive I had trouble concentrating but I enjoyed what you said.

Real witnesses would be nice more often and more research commentary I agree. I was impressed with what you said about scientists having tangible experiences-that's something worth gathering information on. Perhaps you should gain some experience on ATS and join the chat when ready? That is for the more serious blogger.

Also you could do a little research here and there and present. Example, some of the astronaut sightings and their reactions to them. Many ATS are very intelligent and would love to bite into something serious. As for me I have more own theories and a sightings.

I have seen the "wandering star" phenonenon for instance...

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by Erno86
reply to post by schuyler

 

Hey...seeing is believing --- after I witnessed one or two alien starship's in front of my eyes; which is enough of your so-called "scientific" proof that other-worlder's have broken the speed of light barrier, into the super luminal realm!!!

How do you know what you saw was an "alien starship" that traveled in excess of the speed of light? I'm sure you saw something, but I'm not convinced your interpretation is valid. Why not start a thread so we can discuss what you saw? I'd be interested in a full discussion, but I wouldn't want to derail this guy's thread.

edit on 6/11/2012 by schuyler because: (no reason given)

Let me try to explain... the one or two starship's that I witnessed one night back in 1976, were not traveling at the speed of light, or beyond at that moment; rather I'm saying that since they were there at that time and place on Earth ---- meaning that the other-worlder's would have to have the capability too pilot a starship that is capable of super-luminal speeds. No: ifs, ans or buts!!!

Originally posted by Erno86
You can wait till the cows come home, and you probably still won't get your idea of "proof." If proof in the pudding is your idea of "proof," then the UFO mystery will remain a mystery; because the other-worlder's will not likely give us any better evidence that they have visited our Earth --- other than what they have already done.

So...keep denying --- that seems what you are good at.

He's just denying ignorance. In this case, yours. Besides, that's argumentum ad hominem, attacking the person rather than the issue at hand. You are assuming what you saw was an extraterrestrial space ship capable of traveling beyond the speed of light piloted by aliens "from outer space." That's an assumption. Any bona fide scientist ought to look at that situation and say, "Let's not jump to conclusions. Let's wait for the evidence. Let's explore other possibilities. Let's not throw out a very well-tested and serious Einsteinian theory about the speed of light just to replace it with a crazy assumption out of left field because you 'saw something' you don't understand."

As we can readily see, even real scientists are subject to the same fallacies. The OP with all his scientific training jumps to the same assumption that Erno here does. They must be "from outer space."

Seeing is NOT believing except for the completely credulous. OP says 99% of the UFO sightings are junk. I would tend to agree. But they were all "seen" by someone, including birds, aircraft, car lights, lampposts, and a whole lot of mid identifications, all "seen" by someone who jumped to conclusions.

All these so-called UFO experts ought to broaden their horizons a bit, stop with the science fiction and read Karl Jung, Bruno Bettelheim, and Jacques Vallee, some pretty bright guys who are thinking just maybe there's more to this UFO thing than Buck Rogers spaceships and that maybe, just maybe, this idea of ET in a flying saucer is more a product of a 20th/21st century culture steeped in Star Trek lore than it is a reflection of reality.

Originally posted by Erno86
Let me try to explain... the one or two starship's that I witnessed one night back in 1976, were not traveling at the speed of light, or beyond at that moment;

Of course not, otherwise you couldn't have seen them.

rather I'm saying that since they were there at that time and place on Earth ---- meaning that the other-worlder's would have to have the capability too pilot a starship that is capable of super-luminal speeds.

How do you know they were "other worlders"? Why are you making that leap? How do you know what you saw was a "starship"? How do you know that it was capable of 'super-luminal speeds'? That part right there? You are making it up.

No: ifs, ans or buts!!!

There are enough ifs, ands, and buts to drive the Starship Enterprise and the entire Federation Fleet through.

Originally posted by babylonstew
reply to post by LastProphet527

 

id like to hear more about what you posted here as thats all news to me, and any extra info and/or links etc... would be appreciated

My source is very top secret and information comes with a price,and your price for information will cost you a lesson about ufos.


'kenneth arnold'
Lesson 1.Flying saucers never existed. 100% conclusive.
lesson2. Flying saucers just do not exsist.100% conclusive.
Lesson 3.The word flying saucer was embedded and programmed either by mistake, or on purpose.

Lesson 4.
Learn the word and origin of flying saucers.


If you understand what I am talking about, we can than move to the other levels of deprogramming your self and than I will up load the new information so you all can be up to speed to wants going on today.

'Kenneth Arnold'

He is best-known for making what is generally considered the first widely reported unidentified flying object sighting in the United States, after claiming to have seen nine unusual objects flying in a chain near Mount Rainier, Washington on June 24, 1947. (See Kenneth Arnold UFO sighting)

June 26 and June 27, newspapers first began using the terms "flying saucer" and "flying Herbert Strentz, who reviewed U.S. newspaper accounts of the Arnold UFO sighting, and concluded that the term was probably due to an editor or headline writer: the body of the early Arnold news stories did not use the term "flying saucer" or "flying disc."[15] However, earlier stories did in fact credit Arnold with using terms such as "saucer", "disk", and "pie-pan" in describing the shape.

Years later, Arnold claimed he told Bill Bequette that "they flew erratic, like a saucer if you skip it across the water." Arnold felt that he had been misquoted since the description referred to the objects' motion rather than their shape.[4] Thus Bequette has often been credited with first using "flying saucer" and supposedly misquoting Arnold, but the term does not appear in Bequette's early articles. Instead, his first article of June 25 says only, "He said he sighted nine saucer-like aircraft flying in formation..."

Arnold never saw flying saucers


instantseattle.com..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>

This picture here,is the most important mind picture i will ever show the populice of this earth.


This specific picture shows 3 flying saucers.

I want you to build a flying triangle space ship in your mind.

After you build the triangle spaceship in your head,i want you to fit those '3 flying saucers' underneath your triangle...and turn the engines on.

lp527 copy written june 10th 3012

What you see in your head is the only UFO that has ever exsisted on your planet.

'flying saucers' are nothing but the engines underneath the 'flying triangle space ship' just ask the first man to describe it for you.the pictures above look nothing like, a 'flying saucer'

The below picture are your '3 engines' that fit underneath a real Triangle spaceship

www.unsuspectedtruth.com...

reply to post by Vandelay Industries


What evidence do you have that the U.S. government has not reverse-engineered any craft, or their technology?

There have been high ranking U.S. military officers, like Philip J. Corso, who have come forward saying the contrary to what you claim.

You make a lot of assumptions and claims without providing ANY sort of evidence except that "you have a PhD in cell biology".

Having a PhD doesn't make you right in everything, more so when there is evidence that shows you are wrong.

reply to post by LastProphet527


wow...So you also make a lot of claims with no corroborating evidence except that you CLAIM "some voice in your head is telling you ufos don't exist"...

Have you ever considered that the "voice in your head" is the one that doesn't exist?...

The bible warns about "false prophets", and you sir are one of them...

reply to post by Destiny10


Des ol mate,

"Perhaps you should gain some experience on ATS and join the chat when ready? That is for the more serious blogger."

Sure sounds sanctimonious and condescending imo. Oh well each to his own.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by LastProphet527

 

wow...So you also make a lot of claims with no corroborating evidence except that you CLAIM "some voice in your head is telling you ufos don't exist"...

Have you ever considered that the "voice in your head" is the one that doesn't exist?...

The bible warns about "false prophets", and you sir are one of them...

The programm of flying saucres started in 1947...its the year 2012,believe what you want to believe,im up to date with information.Have a good day.
Ufos do exsist, just not the flying saucer.

reply to post by Vandelay Industries


thank you for sharing your opinion. It would be nice if you provided us with adleast a little data so that we could look for ourselves. What is your most convincing case study for example...

Originally posted by Bilk22
Well presented. However, since data is what matters most, what makes you believe you posses all of the relevant data to draw your conclusion?

Thank you for pointing out the flaw of this OP. There is no way you can come to this conclusion legitimately without access to every single piece of data and intel that is available on the subject, and that is impossible.. The fact you claim to be a cell biologist holds no water for me to overlook that fact.

Hey did you know my uncle is stephen hawking he told me they're real so.. nya nya nya nya nya

Originally posted by LastProphet527

The programm of flying saucres started in 1947...its the year 2012,believe what you want to believe,im up to date with information.Have a good day.
Ufos do exsist, just not the flying saucer.

edit on 11-6-2012 by LastProphet527 because: (no reason given)

You are so wrong is not even funny. I have investigated this topic for over 20 years. There are reports of sightings, and even old paintings from the 2nd century and to the 17th-18th century which depict ufos. Most of these paintings are kept and shown in museums, cathedrals and churches all around the world.





Many reports are even older. For example the Vedas, India's sacred texts, which happen to be thousands of years old, describe vimanas/flying saucers which the"Gods/Godesses" use/d to fly around, and the Vedas even explain battles in which vimanas and very advanced technologies are used. According to the Vedas, some of the Gods/Godesses gave vimanas, and the knwoledge on how to use thema nd build them to some men which fought battles to help their Gods/Godesses.

In the Vedas there are even descriptions of the ancients using nuclear weapons which destroyed entire armies, and left the survivors in agony as their hair, nails and skin fell off/melted meanwhile theyr tried to stop this by thrashing in water/mud.

The Vedas are among the oldest sacred texts. The Samhitas date to roughly 1500–1000 BCE, and the "circum-Vedic" texts, as well as the redaction of the Samhitas, date to c. 1000-500 BCE, resulting in a Vedic period, spanning the mid 2nd to mid 1st millennium BCE, or the Late Bronze Age and the Iron Age.
...

en.wikipedia.org...

In the Vedic literature of India, there are many descriptions of flying machines that are generally called Vimanas. India's national epic, The Mahabharata, is a poem of vast length and complexity. According to Dr. Vyacheslav Zaitsev: "the holy Indian Sages, the Ramayana for one, tell of "Two storied celestial chariots with many windows" "They roar like off into the sky until they appear like comets." The Mahabharata and various Sanskrit books describe at length these chariots, "powered by winged lighting...it was a ship that soared into the air, flying to both the solar and stellar regions."
...

www.hinduwisdom.info...

There are ancient and modern descriptions and texts from ALL OVER THE WORLD that describe ufos sightings.

This phenomenon did NOT start in 1947...and the fact that you claim this shows you have done no real research on this topic.

Originally posted by LastProphet527

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by LastProphet527

 

wow...So you also make a lot of claims with no corroborating evidence except that you CLAIM "some voice in your head is telling you ufos don't exist"...

Have you ever considered that the "voice in your head" is the one that doesn't exist?...

The bible warns about "false prophets", and you sir are one of them...

The programm of flying saucres started in 1947...its the year 2012,believe what you want to believe,im up to date with information.Have a good day.
Ufos do exsist, just not the flying saucer.

edit on 11-6-2012 by LastProphet527 because: (no reason given)

Regarding the Kenneth Arnold sighting, he simply described the objects as "resembling saucers". I've been interested in the UFO phenomenon for 40 years. I do not see, nor have I ever, ever, ever seen this "programming" you speak of. You're claiming the government or some other organization is actively and vigorously brainwashing or "programming" us into thinking UFOS are always "flying saucers", when all the while the ETs are actually piloting triangular craft?

I've seen hundreds of reports describing crafts of various shapes.

reply to post by Vandelay Industries


I don't know if you're a PhD research scientist or not. This reply doesn't necessarily have to be directed at you. Just honest scientists and researchers in general.

You think your career could be damaged by your opinions now. What do you think would happen to your career if this subject starts getting taken seriously? Supposing our civilization survives the knowledge, science as we know it will be turned on its ear. Its practitioners will be seen as part of the cover-up (likely true for several scientists), wimps who left our civilization in the dark to further their own careers, or simply too ignorant to remain credible.

Originally posted by FlySolo

Originally posted by GiodanoBruno

Originally posted by Erno86
reply to post by schuyler

 

Hey...seeing is believing --- after I witnessed one or two alien starship's in front of my eyes; which is enough of your so-called "scientific" proof that other-worlder's have broken the speed of light barrier, into the super luminal realm!!!

Foofighter's

Erno86

Sorry to brake it to you, but you witnessing something isnt proof.. you can exhale fire all you want ,doesnt change a thing.

Sorry to break it to you, but the proof is in the pudding. And he ate the pudding, not you. You'll have to get your own

edit on 11-6-2012 by FlySolo because: (no reason given)

Proof is proof. Not some post on ATS or videos or pictures. And your is??

Your proof sounds similar to the proof of an evangelical christian. All based on blind faith.


PS- and to FlySolo, thank you for the spell check. Sh*t happens

Originally posted by Erno86

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by Erno86
reply to post by schuyler

 

Hey...seeing is believing --- after I witnessed one or two alien starship's in front of my eyes; which is enough of your so-called "scientific" proof that other-worlder's have broken the speed of light barrier, into the super luminal realm!!!

How do you know what you saw was an "alien starship" that traveled in excess of the speed of light? I'm sure you saw something, but I'm not convinced your interpretation is valid. Why not start a thread so we can discuss what you saw? I'd be interested in a full discussion, but I wouldn't want to derail this guy's thread.

edit on 6/11/2012 by schuyler because: (no reason given)

Let me try to explain... the one or two starship's that I witnessed one night back in 1976, were not traveling at the speed of light, or beyond at that moment; rather I'm saying that since they were there at that time and place on Earth ---- meaning that the other-worlder's would have to have the capability too pilot a starship that is capable of super-luminal speeds. No: ifs, ans or buts!!!

edit on 11-6-2012 by Erno86 because: typo

Its obvious you have been saying the same '76 story for years now, so tell me is this all you have? Do you really think your story is a good recruiting tool? Honestly


If this happened decades ago , I am sure you have a drawing or painting of it somewhere. Can you post it?

reply to post by schuyler


I was about to debate you regarding neutrinos, but alas, scientists have backed off the "faster than light" answer. Not just yet.

However, I will say this. I will look you straight in the eye with tenacity and with every fiber of my internal core, steadfast and unwavering, speak clearly and concise, these things exist. Regardless of where they come from. Regardless of whether you believe they are our own or not. They exist. I'm not scientist, nor a pilot , nor a military man with inside information. I am just like you. A man with intelligence, common sense, and integrity. There is no denying a "real life event"

And like I have said many many times in other threads, if they are "ours" then this is would be the biggest flagrant injustice to mankind. More so than denying ET visitation. Reason being, we can't do anything about them (ET). But, we can save ourselves. Yet we don't. Rather, TPTB won't. But I assure you, they exist.

reply to post by GiodanoBruno


you're 100% wrong about blind faith friend. Don't assume I know because of sh!t I read.

I just want to start by saying I'm sure your a nice guy, and probably pretty intelligent.

But

You are a bad research scientist if you fail to take into account the testimony of hundreds, if not thousands, of credible witnesses. Many of which are career professionals with nothing to gain by disclosing their experiences.

Have you read Lt Col Phillip Corso's book? I doubt it.

Forget Dr Greer himself, if you want to, but don't forget his almost 1000 government and professional witnesses (many career military men) testifying to the existence, and often retrieval, of these crafts and beings. These intelligent, and often highly paid, people are willing to put their names to these experiences for no gain whatsoever. They are also willing to testify under oath. Why?

The many credible testimonies of the crash (and often retrieval) of these craft, to me, puts it beyond reasonable doubt. I know 'beyond reasonable doubt' has little place in modern scientific research, you want to be able to isolate and repeat your results. But surely some common sense would tell you there is something to these reports.

You can explain away each individual case, if it was isolated by itself, but together, the hundreds of credible reports should carry a lot of scientific weight.

Analogy:
If you had to prove each murder case scientifically there would be drastically fewer convictions. At some point you have to use common sense, and your best judgement. For me, and many others, the evidence for the retrieval of, and study, of 'other world technology' has reached that point in the affirmative.

By the way your PhD makes me no more likely to accept your conclusions. The fact that you've been through many more years of 'indoctrination' could be a bad thing. My experience is that it closes peoples minds to new ideas.