Atheists: Can we please just agree to disagree?

Recently I encountered this thread. I'm going to reply to it here, because I want to speak more generally about this.

I've had experiences recently where synchronicity produced some amazing results for me; I went into a completely new part of the country, and had people supposedly "randomly," crossing my path who were able to help me, one after the other.

I should have actually stayed in that environment, as it was infinitely more beneficial to me than my current one; but a big part of the reason why I didn't, and why I tend to have difficulty maintaining faith in general, is because of my inability to give up a perceived need to be socially acceptable, to people like you.

Am I Christian? No. I do not like that religion any more than you probably do. I find Christianity pathological and dysfunctional, yet truthfully, I struggle to this very day with guilt concerning my own chosen form of spiritual expression. I know what Christians think of me; at times, on ATS, their opinion is impossible to avoid or ignore.

They think I'm going to Hell. I want to respond to them that I know their God is better than that, and so if he was going to send anyone to Hell, it would more likely be them for wishing that on someone else; but I don't, because I am still too afraid of them, and the potential truth of their opinion, to be able to stand up to them.

The only reason why I believe in material like The Celestine Prophecy, (and not even all elements of it, mind you; only some) is because I've tried some of it out, and it seemed to work. I'm not some New Age nut case. If I try something out, and it seems to work, I adopt it. If it doesn't, I don't. It's pretty simple. I also don't join cults, or give massive amounts of money to every professed guru I see. Apart from anything else, I don't have massive amounts of money, unfortunately.

Yet my adherence to that philosophy, has led me into conflict with, and condemnation from, Atheists as well as Christians. I apparently believe in a lot of things that you don't want to. I still think that we're not being told everything where 9/11 was concerned, as one example; and yes, I also believe in God, although not in the context that Christians have trained you to suspect people of.

The only thing I'm asking for here, is the right to determine for myself, what I do or do not believe to be true. You're probably not going to agree with me a lot of the time, which is fine. There are a number of subjects that I've seen, where I didn't agree with what seemed to be the prevailing Atheistic opinion, either.

Some Atheists talk a lot about wanting freedom of thought. Yet a disturbing thing which I've noticed at times, is the attitude where they seem to think that the rest of us only free to agree with them.

I am not evangelical. I'm not going to try and convince you to hold the same opinions that I do. If you want to hold said opinions, that's fine; but I am not asking for anything here, which I am not prepared to grant to anyone else.

I want peace with Atheism. I'm not one of you, and I'm fairly certain I never will be; but that doesn't make me incapable, (when I'm not angry, at least) of recognising that there are a lot of elements of Atheistic thought that are genuinely valuable.

You might think I'm wrong at times, and at times I might well be, but if said incorrectness isn't causing me to kill people or blow up buildings, I'd appreciate being permitted to hold onto it. Most people would probably interpret it as a sign of weakness, for me to ask for your permission to maintain my autonomy; but I know how prevalent Atheism is becoming in contemporary society, which means that I have to deal with you at times.

agree that neither believers or disbelievers really know what the # they're talking?

You want peace with atheists because you're tired of arguing with them?

Why is that? If you're beliefs benefit you, then keep your beliefs. It doesn't have to be logical, so don't feel pressured to act like you're less of someone for not having a logical presentation that everyone can attest to. Don't worry about it!

As Sagan said, it's okay to reserve judgement until the evidence is in.

Personally, I don't think we are capable of understanding who or who God is.....it's simply beyond our knowing.

Guess that makes me agnostic.

Petras, you are entitled to believe whatever you want, and you don't have to justify yourself to anyone. Just keep in mind that prolific discussions about your beliefs with others will help strengthen and resolve your convictions.

Hugs to you,

smylee

reply to post by petrus4


You can push a fairy tales as many ways as you want to push it and it is still a fairy tale.
You can have as many people as you want believing a fairy tale and it is still a fairy tale.
You can call it whatever you want, make whatever rules and regulations you want around it and it is still a fairy tale.

I think we would be happy if you just stop calling it the truth.
Say to people, "I have a belief that is not true" and people may take you a little more seriously.
Saying to people that your religion is real when it is clearly not is setting a horrible example.

Originally posted by HumanCondition
reply to post by petrus4

 

You can push a fairy tales as many ways as you want to push it and it is still a fairy tale.
You can have as many people as you want believing a fairy tale and it is still a fairy tale.
You can call it whatever you want, make whatever rules and regulations you want around it and it is still a fairy tale.

I think we would be happy if you just stop calling it the truth.
Say to people, "I have a belief that is not true" and people may take you a little more seriously.
Saying to people that your religion is real when it is clearly not is setting a horrible example.

Are people like this the majority, where atheism is concerned?

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by HumanCondition
reply to post by petrus4

 

You can push a fairy tales as many ways as you want to push it and it is still a fairy tale.
You can have as many people as you want believing a fairy tale and it is still a fairy tale.
You can call it whatever you want, make whatever rules and regulations you want around it and it is still a fairy tale.

I think we would be happy if you just stop calling it the truth.
Say to people, "I have a belief that is not true" and people may take you a little more seriously.
Saying to people that your religion is real when it is clearly not is setting a horrible example.

Are people like this the majority, where atheism is concerned?

Most atheists keep to themselves about their beliefs, the militant atheists are mostly on the internet. They are a pretty vocal bunch, but the internet makes them sound like they are in bigger numbers than there actually are.

Why are you seeking appeasement from atheists anyway?

Originally posted by satron
Why are you seeking appeasement from atheists anyway?

Because I don't want conflict with them any more; and because truthfully, I feel as though they're the majority at this point, and that being a theist, even though I intend to keep being one, makes me an outcast. I'm somewhat tired of being an outcast.

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by satron
Why are you seeking appeasement from atheists anyway?

Because I don't want conflict with them any more; and because truthfully, I feel as though they're the majority at this point, and that being a theist, even though I intend to keep being one, makes me an outcast. I'm somewhat tired of being an outcast.

edit on 9-6-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)

OK!

You're overly sensitive. They aren't the majority. If you're that worried about it, why don't you just believe there is no God. What good is your beliefs if they can't bring you peace?

I'm sorry, I'm having a hard time buying that this is really a problem for you. It seems very contrived.

Originally posted by satron
You're overly sensitive. They aren't the majority. If you're that worried about it, why don't you just believe there is no God. What good is your beliefs if they can't bring you peace?

My beliefs at times can bring me peace. My inability to reconcile with certain people, however, does not. That is what I am attempting to resolve.

Still, if the problem exists within other people, and if I am rejected by them, while I am attempting to reach out to them, then there is nothing I can do.

To kill two birds with one stone...

There is nothing more immovable in this world than a man's mind. No one can change it but the man himself. So, changing others is a fruitless endeavor ripe with the stench of self righteousness.

Only your own mind can you change. The hardest thing to change is acceptance of what you cannot change. We all have a built in God complex that thinks it can change everything.

So, change yourself. Do it in a grand way! Do it in a Godly way! Then others will be in awe of you. Remain humble and share what you have learned. Then, only then, are others inspired to seek what you have.

From here...

Welcome to the World

You can be rest assured, that America is 79% religious. Atheists number only a few million in America. The most recent ARIS report, released March 9, 2009, found in 2008, 34.2 million Americans (15.0%) claim no religion, of which 1.6% explicitly describes itself as atheist (0.7%) or agnostic (0.9%),

Just remember the old adage:

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

This is what works on the internet. Unpopular opinions, such as being homosexual is natural and normal, get the loudest voices on the internet. That's what the internet is for, is to give unpopular opinions a voice.

You don't have to appease yourself to anybody, your beliefs are your beliefs.

Just be right on the facts, and when many theists speak about atheists, they often do not. They use a whole slur of generalizations and rationalizations that define atheists as evil and vile people, so many of them who are on the receiving end get entirely frustrated and hostile to people who constantly berate them.

And all they're really berating atheists for is because atheists don't believe the same way as them.

And when you truly think about it logically, a lot of the arguments and claims against atheists hold no water.

Take, for example, that it takes "faith" to not believe there is a God.

Sorry, but that makes no logical sense.

Because faith is the belief in a God, and what makes it faith is because there is absolutely no proof that god exists. None what so ever. All believers have are just claims and argumentation and a whole slew of dirty and dishonest tactics to try to turn the arguments back onto the atheists.

Atheism is a lack of belief. That's all it is, nothing more.

Theists cannot understand it and will always attempt to redefine it so they can win whatever argument or discussions they're in. And of course they can't have the same standards of arguments apply to them too. Because if they did they'd lose the argument and would have to admit they're wrong.

Religious people can never admit they're wrong under any circumstances. No, I don't know why, but they always expect the other guy to admit they're wrong.

And as for me, I just don't argue about it any more because nobody changes their minds and nothing gets accomplished, just a bunch of people start shouting at each other.

So it's pretty much useless to discuss it any more.

Edit:

The best way to resolve the issue is to just accept that not everybody is going to believe the same way as you, and just let them be themselves, and stop trying to change them, stop trying to shame them because they're different than you. When you worry about what other people think, you only make yourself miserable.

And stop generalizing about them as well and make your rants only about specific people.

reply to post by petrus4

As a former atheist, I appreciate the viewpoint. I got tired of the conflict and the disrespect.

Truth means different things to different people.

We need to accept that and be respectful of each other's beliefs.

And one last piece of advice.

When arguing about people like Richard Dawkins, you might want to actually read their books first to see what they actually say, and not go by what someone interprets they said.

Thew problem with going by what someone else interprets is this: whether it be pro or con, they always take things out of context in order to make their point, and while that person may have actually read that book, the person who is just repeating what the interpreter said and doesn't truly know what's in the book.

It's all too easy to take a small quote or piece out of context in order to make a strawman out of it.It's one of the most common tactics on the internet.

Here's an example of what I mean.

You know of David Icke and his books, right? You do know that some people protest his books because they claim they're antisemitic. The claim is the reptilians he writes about are metaphors for the Jews.

But there are two things about these protests. They have not truly read his books but claim to know what's in them. And what they forget is it was originally a group of Neo-Nazis who claimed that his books are metaphors for Jews. They ignore this important point. So really, it doesn't make any sense for them to protest his books because Neo-Nazis are notorious liars and will turn anything they can into something that is intended to bash Jews, so why would they trust them about these books, especially even more without them reading the books.

He does mean it literally, that the reptilian race are the secret overlords of earth and have been ruling humanity secretly for ages.

So in short, these people really don't know what is in these books and really don't know what they are doing.

i don't know if you're reading your thread anymore, but please, consider this advice.