Strange 'event' off the Eastern Coast of Sicily.

reply to post by tommyjo

Your version of events is a classic example of people misinterpreting and jumping to incorrect conclusions.

I never came to a 'conclusion' then - or now - so - you're out of line.

Beyond that?

This thread is a 'classic example' of: An ATS'er who documented an event they do not understand and documented it well - presenting it on ATS in a timely manor - within minutes of the event.

This thread is a 'classic example' of: An ATS'er who is not afraid to step out on a limb and present that evidence knowing they're going to get trolled.

This thread is a 'classic example' of: An ATS'er who asks for other members input - and remains open to suggestion without loosing self knowledge and conviction.

And that is what ATS is all about.

peace

reply to post by silo13


Correct and I owe you an apology. I skimmed through parts of the thread and some of my interpretation of it was lost with the people claiming 'missiles'. No offence to yourself but your initial posts and replies were enough for me to see how you were being fooled by the Frecce display. You openly admit to having limited knowledge of aircraft and military. On my part I have 25 years of military service under my belt and have been an aircraft enthusiast for far longer.

Again no offence intended but if you are asking questions such as the following then it is no wonder that you are going to be confused by a display routine filmed at distance.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Question though: Do jets (?) exist able to make those types of maneuvers? From flying flat over the water into and absolutely STRAIGHT UP position - that kind of incredible angle instantly?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

what kind of air show would support a jet that can fly so fast it can't be seen and can achieve a 90 degree angle leaving a trail? See my point? I'm not being critical of you - more so critical of what I know I saw and am trying to explain/find answers for.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'll also be right upfront admitting I have no knowledge of any type of military - well - anything. But I saw no planes and heard a lot of noise and then - well - the pictures show the rest.

The video from the shore crowd line on the 9th shows what you observed from a distance. All you have done is confused yourself by trying to compare what you saw on the 9th and the 10th. The answer is in the video filmed by the Italian cameraperson on the 9th. Your explanation that they wouldn't see or film any other 'plumes' or report anything out of the ordinary doesn't stand up to any logical thought. With your limited aviation knowledge I can see how you can be confused. The answer is in the video filmed on the 9th from the shore crowd line - the Frecce Tricolori!



Watch from 03:36 when you can see the MB339PAN tail-slide singleton climbing. At approximately 03:51 the aircraft starts its descent. At 03:58 you can see the aircraft reflecting light as it descends and exits to reposition.

You have captured the aircraft as it performs its tail-slide and tumble. The image was enhanced by Bluemooone2. This is what you see in the video with the top of the smoke plume reflecting light at 03:51. To the left of the plume you can see the shape of the aircraft.





bluemooone2 post

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You have captured and highlighted the tail-slide singleton and its smoke plume in the following image.

reply to post by tommyjo

Thank you for putting 2 and 2 together for me. Your conclusions, of course, equal four and I truly appreciate that.
I just wish you could have heard and seen what I did - which a short video and still shots do not represent at their fullest.
Have I come to a clear conclusions yet? No. But admittedly, with your help I'm getting there.

Thanks so much, and peace...

gracie

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by Phage

 

Comparing what I saw to the video (you posted) I would have to say what I saw was not similar to the video - unless that is the projectile can exit the water and be out of my sight in a matter of seconds? And if so I would think the sound would come after?

peace

edit on 9-6-2012 by silo13 because: clarification of what video

The sound did come after, that's why you heard them but did not see them, by the time the sound reached you they were gone.

We had a saying in the Army, you don't hear the shot that kills you, but your buddies will.

Originally posted by silo13
The noise continues and is/was HUGE - very similar to Etna - that grumbling soaring sound - almost like a fighter jet, but then again not. Too loud not to 'see' anything - then too soft too fast.

The 'sounds' continued. Again, I thought maybe it was a jet - but no jets, not out over the water only a strange cloud formation not far from the shore where no other clouds were in the sky.

Originally posted by silo13
Do I still think there's more to the story?
Yes.

One of the biggest reasons? The tone of voice my long time friend used when saying to me 'What in the hell was that'! (She's lived here all her life on the coast).

Originally posted by silo13
Today? I heard and saw planes without a doubt. There was no ‘strange noise’. Also, though similar? The ‘show’ today was nothing in scope, size, sound constancy or repetition of what I saw yesterday.

Originally posted by silo13
Interesting though - the practice? If that's what it was? So much more fantastical than the actual show. Yeah, interesting that.

I think part of the answer may be that watching an aerial display that you are expecting --in fact, was apparently overdue and you had been (im-?)patiently waiting for -- is never going to be as exciting as "What the hell was that?" One is certainly bound to make a bigger impression.
A military jet engine at full throttle is extremely loud. Uncommonly, gut-rumbling, deafeningly loud. It is very unlike the sound of a jet engine under normal circumstances producing lower amounts of thrust. The abrupt change in volume may be attributable to the jet's attitude to you. Not, how it feels about you, but which direction it is facing relative to you. I wonder a bit about the weather both days because depending on the humidity levels sound will propagate differently -- i.e. some days louder than others. It sounds a bit fantastic, but is true.

In your own words, you looked out over the water expecting to see a jet, but didn't see one; only the strange clouds. We have video from people in the area filming the demo over the water -- jets making strange clouds. The video and photos you took seem to match up fairly well. The demonstration team is certainly capable of, and routinely is found, performing the maneuvers (and trails) that you did not expect a plane to be able to make. And we know demonstration teams always perform practice flights locally before shows (Here is a link to a general Frecce Tricolori guide: www.mod.uk... -- It's a pdf file). Usually these flights occur the day previous at the same time as the scheduled performance. Was your first post in the thread at 1800 hrs local for you? Or thereabouts? The same time as the show you saw Sunday? A local rehearsal flight is not to practice the maneuvers themselves as much as to make sure that audience areas, highly populated areas and terrain features are not over overflown at the most dangerous moments of the routine. Usually, the show is aligned with the runway. It's nice and flat, and the spectators are all to one side of it. In this case, over the water provides an ideal location for the show. Just where you saw the smoke trails. They may run through the routine or parts of it several times to adjust the alignment of certain maneuvers. It might, therefor, be longer than the actual demonstration at show time. I'm fairly well convinced that what you saw was the rehearsal performance to familiarize the team with the local terrain and airshow footprint -- not that you need give a damn. At the end of the day, noone saw or heard what you did.

At anyrate, I look forward to "star"ing your next batch of Etna photos!

reply to post by _Del_


Well said.

Most people have never heard a military jet in full afterburner, mostly because it can lead to sonic booms and those can't happen around people. But for things like airshows they will push the throttles harder than during normal training.

It is possible to fly just about anything in a quieter manner, but for exhibitions noise is good. So for shows they "take the baffles out" so to speak.

I used to love flying with rookie chopper pilots in the Army. Open doors at treetop level while jinking is much more fun at higher rotor pitches, partly because the whole bird shakes but mostly because it's so loud.

Flying with the old pros was less fun because they could feather the pitch just enough to maintain control and it is a much smoother and quieter ride, even while flying nap of the earth.

maybe it could be gases released methtan havnt they been skaking alot in itlay

reply to post by _Del_

I think part of the answer may be that watching an aerial display that you are expecting --in fact, was apparently overdue and you had been (im-?)patiently waiting for -- is never going to be as exciting as "What the hell was that?"

Sorry but I'm a bit confused here.

The first incident that provoked this thread? I wasn't expecting anything - I didn't even know there was an airshow scheduled - and certainly didn't expect to see vertical 'trails' coming up out of the water much like what I'd expect 'rockets' to leave behind.

The second set of pics? Sure - I read online the show was supposed to start at 1600 and it did not for another 2 plus hours. Impatient? Not at all. Did I expect what I saw? Yes. Similar trails but not comparable enough to convince me I was seeing the same thing as the previous day.

Hope you have a great time at Etna! U2U me when you get here!

peace

reply to post by q13ert

maybe it could be gases released methtan havnt they been skaking alot in itlay

I'm really tending to believe (in part) this is what I was seeing - especially after talking to the townspeople here and after Etna putting out lava yesterday. Etna has changed a lot lately - so - it wouldn't surprise me if what I saw wasn't just 'steam' escaping but a combination of jet trails and steam.

peace

reply to post by silo13


I just meant the adrenaline rush of a "What in the world is that?" moment can make one thing more memorable.


My question about the time was related to the rehearsal. I was wondering what time your first sighting was compared to the time of day that you saw the airshow. Because I know they try to rehearse at the same time as the show. If it was roughly the same time, it'd be another piece of the puzzle. To fit -- or not fit.

And I'm not headed to Etna anytime soon -- I just meant I enjoy the pictures you post. Particularly the nighttime lava flows If I make another trip to the Med, I'll let you know.

Originally posted by silo13

I'm really tending to believe (in part) this is what I was seeing - especially after talking to the townspeople here and after Etna putting out lava yesterday. Etna has changed a lot lately - so - it wouldn't surprise me if what I saw wasn't just 'steam' escaping but a combination of jet trails and steam.

peace

Thanks for the earlier reply, Gracie. It still doesn't fit. Why did none of the other camera people record this 'steam' from the shoreline? Think of the number of people watching and also consider the aircrew taking part? Remember you are filming at a distance. Think what such a 'steam' eruption would look like in proximity to the shoreline and to the pilots flying the aerobatic performance? These plumes that you filmed were obviously reaching hundreds of feet into the air and would have been witnessed by the Frecce Tricolori, their safety team and airshow director on the shoreline.

If they are large enough to be filmed at a distance then they would also be deemed an unknown flight safety hazard and the display would have been interrupted. Huge vents of steam erupting out of the ocean during the Frecce display are going to have been captured on the shoreline videos and witnessed by thousands. Think how many cameras would have been clicking away during that Frecce display?