Chaos Among Order

Please feel free to ask questions and let me know if I have made any logical errors.

I'm going to start in the beginning. Among religion it is normally accepted that God or a similar type of divine being created the universe. Among many scientific communities, the Big Bang Theory is the leading example of a physical creation scenario. Now, imagine that in the cosmological instant that the Big Bang occurred and created the Universe, that it also created a God-like entity (God). Essentially the Universe as an entity created God, but it did not do so out of free will.

It is also generally acceptable (at least in monotheistic religions) to say that God is omnipotent. God can do whatever God wishes to do and whenever God wishes to do it. The Universe, on the other hand, follows a strict set of laws, which humanity has attempted to discover and catalog as best we can. The Universe does not pick and choose which laws it wishes to follow at which time. What we can lead up to is that God is a strict representative of chaos and the Universe represents order.

God, as an avatar of chaos, does whatever he wishes with the Universe. God begins this process by forcing the Universe to look the way God wishes it to look. God forces the Universe into discs, each one containing an isolated world in which God can impose Himself upon. In a sense God has still created the Earth, but only because the Universe allowed it, because it fit within its laws. God is a part of the Universe, but the Universe is not a part of God. Any time God breaks the Universe's laws, it damages whatever he attempted to create. The Will of the Universe will correct any law breaking God performs.

You might say "Well, then, God cannot affect the Will of the Universe, therefore God is not omnipotent." This would be true, however, God indeed can affect the Will of the Universe, however, God chooses not to. Remember, God is a part of the Universe but the Universe is not part of God. If God attempted to break the Will of the Universe, he would only succeed in breaking Himself. Should he break Himself the Universe would cease to exist. For obvious reasons, God does not want this to happen, so He refrains from directly damaging the Will of the Universe.

Back to the worlds in which God imposed Himself upon. Following the Universe's strict set of rules, God created life upon the Earth. At first, there were no humans. God knew that life, as part of the Universe, adhered to the Universe's rules. God also knew that life would fall into a cycle of order, as the Universe commands it to do so. This angered God, the Will of the Universe was always present inside his creation, ever monitoring it like an overly strict parent.

God, then, decided to impose chaos upon life. God then created humans and gave them the gift of knowledge. God gave Himself unto humanity, thereby imposing Himself into their mind. The Will of the Universe had no law to stop this. The only thing the Will of the Universe could do, was impose itself upon this life, as well. The Universe could only control so much, however. It dominated Humanity's body, but God still drove their mind. As such humanity was torn between these two very different entities. We can call this tear the Human Spirit, which represents the ability to choose between Order and Chaos.

Now we are going to lead into the conspiracy. God wishes humanity to sow chaos into the universe. To break it yet simultaneously follow its myriad laws, finding ever new ways to twist them into what we want. God then creates his own laws (please note this does not mean God bends to Order, as God can choose what laws He wants and then on top of that, He can choose which ones He wants to follow). God takes these laws to humanity. A very simple, "This is what I want you to do" wouldn't suffice. No, he wanted humanity to not only sow chaos but at the same time, have humanity worship him. This effectively adds insult to injury to the Will of the Universe. God can show the Universe that not only do these people wage war against the Universe, but they worship Him as they do it.

Religion thereby is designed to steer humanity into sheer chaos. This is not the chaos you would commonly think of, but chaos relative to the Universe. God gave humanity many rules to follow, but they all involved other humans, not the Universe itself. God doesn't want you killing each other, it would defeat our entire purpose. How will God make sure that humans do what he wants? Offer eternal reward, but the kicker is, He offers this reward after a lifetime of servitude. A reward you foresee is the best kind.

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

God wants humanity to be like Him after all. God wants you to defeat the Universe, to rule over it in ways He did not wish to. To spread out amongst it, to present chaos to its invariable order.

How is humanity similar to God? Humans can create their own laws and subsequently choose to ignore them. We can also choose to listen to what God has to say. We don't have to care what God does, an unfortunate consequence to God's perspective.

How is humanity similar to the Universe? Humans can not choose whether to obey the Universe.

So you're saying that God was created by the universe, but the universe is not a part of God? How is it possible for the universe to create something without it being a part of it? Are you implying that God is outside time and space? If so how does He affect time and space?

Which god are you talking about? The Hebrew god? So Earth and all the other planets and galaxies were created by a big bang that produced a 'god' that then went and lived in a mountain in 'Zion'? That would be a bit odd wouldn't it? It must have been one hellova mountain. Imagine........you have the whole universe to choose from and you go and pick a mountain in some remote desert that even your own followers don't want to hang around for that long? And where is he now? Did he move to another mountain? Is he on a mountain of fire on Mars perhaps? Maybe he now likes to live in craters on the moon.

Exodus 4:27 So he met Moses at the mountain of God and kissed him.

Exodus 13:21 By day the LORD went ahead of them in a pillar of cloud to guide them on their way and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, so that they could travel by day or night.

Exodus 13:22 Neither the pillar of cloud by day nor the pillar of fire by night left its place in front of the people.

Exodus 15:13 Thou in thy mercy hast led forth the people which thou hast redeemed: thou hast guided them in thy strength unto thy holy habitation.

Exodus 15:17 Thou shalt bring them in, and plant them in the mountain of thine inheritance, in the place, O LORD, which thou hast made for thee to dwell in, in the Sanctuary, O Lord, which thy hands have established.

Exodus 16:10 While Aaron was speaking to the whole Israelite community, they looked toward the desert, and there was the glory of the LORD appearing in the cloud.

Exodus 18:5 And Jethro, Moses' father in law, came with his sons and his wife unto Moses into the wilderness, where he encamped at the mount of God:

Exodus 19:3 Then Moses went up to God, and the LORD called to him from the mountain

Exodus 19:9 The LORD said to Moses, “I am going to come to you in a dense cloud

Exodus 19:16 On the morning of the third day there was thunder and lightning, with a thick cloud over the mountain, and a very loud trumpet blast. Everyone in the camp trembled.

Exodus 19:19 And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.

Exodus 19:22 Even the priests, who approach the LORD, must consecrate themselves, or the LORD will break out against them.”

Exodus 23:21 And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.

Exodus 24:2 And Moses alone shall come near the LORD: but they shall not come nigh; neither shall the people go up with him.

Exodus 24:15 And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount.

Exodus 24:16 And the glory of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud.

Exodus 24:17 And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.

Exodus 34:2 And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount.

Exodus 32:10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them.


What's more logical.....that a big bang occured that happened to magic up a god that, despite being an inter galactic god, decided to live in a 'mountain of fire' somewhere in Midian (North-western Saudi) solely for the terrorising of a bunch of desert nomads who eventually walked off set and built a temple out of stone instead.........or that the god of the ancient Hebrews is as divinely authentic as Zeus, big bang or no big bang?

Or were you talking about Zeus anyway? You think the big bang produced Zeus?

Can you please be specific as to which god you are refering to and then we can see if he or she could logically have been produced by something so humongous?

ohmyvolcano.blogspot.com...

The Fog Horn.....keeping it real

Originally posted by wearewatchingyouman
So you're saying that God was created by the universe, but the universe is not a part of God? How is it possible for the universe to create something without it being a part of it? Are you implying that God is outside time and space? If so how does He affect time and space?

edit on 10-6-2012 by wearewatchingyouman because: clarity

God is part of the Universe, within it, but the Universe is not within God. It is the same way you can, for example, pick an object up. You can do that because you are within the Universe and you abide by its rules (the energy exerted to pick the object up). God is not outside of the bounds of time or space, but God is within them all at once.

reply to post by TheFogHorn


I'm not referring to any God, specifically. I tried to show in the OP that I used the term "God" to refer to the chaos that has formed inside the Universe. Humanity has been trying to record this chaos in multiple forms and it does not always reveal itself so utterly literal. The chaos (perhaps I should start referring to it as that?) is battling a foe it cannot defeat. but even with that fact, chaos does not simply surrender.

Simply because chaos was recorded being or living on a mountain does not make it so.

Reading your post is like attempting to fight your way out of a giant spagetti puzzle with your eyes closed and your hands tied. Are you absolutely sure that this puzzle does not in fact have a very simple solution? Difficult puzzles often have the most blatantly obvious solutions....we just have to step back.

Can you please tell me whether or not you believe there is any validity in Pele? Can you then also tell me whether or not Pele was likely to have been promoted as 'the one true god' and also a universal and omnipotent god? Can you also tell me whether or not you believe it's likely the Pele congregation sacrificed animals at the base of 'Pele', just as did the ancient Hebrews?

Can you then tell me honestly whether or not the revelation the ancient Hebrews' god was nothing other than volcanic activity would affect your belief in a 'one true god', seeing as the one true god we in the West have always been told about was him? In other words, if he (or Chaos if you'd rather call him that) is proven to be false along with many others before him, could you or should you continue to believe the characteristics attributed to him actually exist in yet another entity we've not been conditioned into believing in? Is it logical?

reply to post by Orderamongchaos


I do believe that everything is created out of chaos. The Big Bang would have had the perfect conditions for it. But why can't it just be chaos and not god? Is it realistic to say that every coincidence, every random event and everything unpredictable, is not the result of a chaotic chain of events which started in the beginnings of the universe, but of a being randomly creating and destroying at will?

I don't think its possible to anthropomorphize chaos. But I do agree it holds a more significant place in the universe.

ETA: I wrote a thread about chaos a while ago if you're interested. Would man exist without chaos?