Feminism: A postscript

I know there's already another thread on men's rights at the moment. I wanted to offer this as something which is related in general terms, but which nonetheless goes in a sufficiently different direction, that I felt it warranted its' own thread.

I don't want to talk about men's rights, as such. I want to talk specifically about feminism, from the point of view of offering a clarification which I think is very important.

As a man, I do not blame all, or even most, women for the existence of feminism as a movement.

If there is one thing I am extremely encouraged and gratified by, on this forum, it is the number of women who I have seen posting in several threads dedicated to feminism as a topic, and emphasising to male readers that they bore no hostility towards men at all. There are also an encouraging number of intelligent videos on YouTube which have been recorded by women, who are voicing their own objections to contemporary feminism's excesses.

I want to make one other thing very clear. As a man, I am not a male chauvanist. My father was a male chauvanist, and a misogynist, and I feel that his attitude in that regard was misguided, harmful, and pathological. I have seen no evidence whatsoever to suggest that a patriarchic social model is, or would be, any more conducive to human wellbeing, than an exclusively matriarchic or female dominated one.

My father was also a fascist, and I have seen very few (close to none at all, in fact) so-called men's rights activists online, who I would not likewise characterise as fascists. The majority of them primarily seem to express resentment over the fact that they are not permitted to dominate society, which they apparently consider their divine right.

I want both men and women to understand, that on both sides of the gender line, there is a minority of people who are, in truth, the enemy of men and women both, as far as seeking to prevent positive and loving interaction between the sexes are concerned. Pathological, obsessive, and irrational hatred of the opposite gender, exists on both sides of the gender line, and I have personally observed it on both.

I am confident however, that in the cases of both genders, said group is a minority. The majority of men and women do not pathologically hate one another; and I think it is extremely important for members of both genders to resist the campaign that is being waged, and has been engineered into the core fabric of contemporary society, in order to try and convince members of both genders to do so.

The bottom line is, that our society is currently ruled and directed by elitist, eugenicist psychopaths. These are individuals who want humanity to cease to reproduce. Ideologies such as feminism, and now the men's rights backlash, have been introduced and are being promoted, mainly for the purposes of inducing hatred between both genders, so that neither gender will want to reproduce.

Many of feminism's early goals were legitimate. Women needed to be given the right to vote, access to the same education, and in many cases, to be able to remove themselves from physically and psychologically abusive situations. I also do not believe in or advocate, inflexible, unchangeable, set gender roles, and as such, I consider it entirely logical that a woman should be able to seek employment if she desires to do so.

The achievement fo these goals, however, despite their genuine moral legitimacy, was not the primary reason why feminism was created. Feminism was created by the psychopathic cabal, for the purposes of encouraging men and women to hate each other, so that we would cease to breed. It is part of the overarching culling program which they are currently attempting to enact upon humanity.

As peaceful, comparitively innocent men and women, our enemy is not each other. Our enemy, as always, is the cabal; humanity's loyal opposition; the Illuminati, at a core level. At a slightly lower and less visible level, our enemy are also the proverbial useful idiots; the pathological men and women who have been deceived into thinking that the war of the sexes is in any way justifiable and legitimate, rather than seeing it for what it is.

I am not opposed to the political or economic Left. But to the degree that I condone the Left, I do so more in terms of what I consider to be the true proto-Leftists, such as Peter Kropotkin, and possibly Mikhail Bakunin. I feel that Marxism, Trotskyism, and Leninism, on the other hand, are insidious and genuinely deadly weapons, which were introduced for the express purpose of first destroying human society, and then humanity itself.

Feminism and male chauvanism are just one piece of the cabal's Hellish jigsaw puzzle. We need to stop falling into the trap.

Petras,

Very elegantly stated. S&F for you.

I don't consider myself a feminist, but I am concerned with women's rights and equality. Here in the US, women enjoy a lot of opportunities for work and careers, family and religion. We still face a lot of inequalities, too; but these are dwindling.

Equality between the sexes should not mean that we fail to recognize the DIFFERENCES between the sexes. Men are stronger. Women are gentler. A gross generalization, I know. But when our society can acknowledge the strengths of each sex and let those strengths compliment each other....then we will be that much closer to Utopia.

reply to post by petrus4


According to my very dominating,chauvanistic husband...the downfall
of the United States started when women were given the right to vote.
They should be kept barefoot and pregnant and in the kitchen cooking.
My husband is older now and he doesn't want to tick off the cook
He knows that he would get peanut butter and jelly for dinner if I am
not a happy mama.

The psychology of the oppressed affords them one luxury only: blame for everything is cast toward the oppressors. This causes a lack of accountability, both prior to, and after, oppression. There has always been a hesitation to tell those who have suffered that yes, they have suffered, but the one tormenting them hasn't created every single one of their problems. Instead, we stand by, shaking our heads, demonstrating our depth of empathy [while congratulating ourselves] and confirm that yes, the oppressor's locus of control removed all autonomy and character.

Telling the truth to the downtrodden is very difficult because their life already, has been so difficult. But if we identified ourselves as a part of nature, and not the offspring of a sociopathic omniscient being, we could make the connection that since nature is cruel in its non-judgement, it stands to reason our experiences are sometimes cruel as well. Nature doesn't care if you're a human, a zebra or a cactus. It will have its way.

Feminism, and whatever the likes of Sam Kean calls the equivalent for the male gender, causes its followers to suffer because by pointing its finger and stating "There! There is your problem!", followers no longer ask themselves how many problems they're causing for themselves, and how many problems are simply the result of differing brain chemistries manifesting in the different genders. They just go to war.

It really depends on the country and culture, and type of feminism.
Especially in poorer nations feminists have struggled against eugenics and forced sterilizations, and also for the reproductive rights of HIV positive women (when medications these days can reduce vertical transmissions to 2 percent in HIV positive mothers, yet conservative doctors still sterilize women in many countries).
There's always been interventions in who can "breed" (a term usually reserved for animals), and who should not, and minority women have long struggled with the issue, with a high rate of forced sterilizations amongst North American Indian women, for example.

It seems that economic choices for smaller and more prosperous families are now broadly blamed on "feminism" in the West, and now that it affects a certain race and culture it is suddenly a problem, because people are still breeding, just White Anglo-Saxon Protestants are being out-bred! Their populations are more likely to be aging rather than younger in comparison to other groups, although they are also less affected by HIV than African Americans (40 percent of HIV infections in the US for 14 percent of the population, and 98 percent of global HIV rates in fertility obsessed sub-Saharan Africa).

But what does want one want?
Quality or quantity?
Wouldn't one want a child with an educated mother and father and a chance of prosperity, or a slum with children at all costs, even if the life expectancy and quality of life is low?

In the West, men may have to adapt to being "house-men" while women have more chances at careers.
They can still "breed" however.

The fear with a really "fascist" brand of feminist theory is that a few men could serve as sperm donors, and apart from that men would be totally unneeded and redundant in a female dominated society.
So for me the real fear is that women could breed without men as a social requirement.
However that's quite futuristic.
Nevertheless those are real fears.

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by petrus4

 

According to my very dominating,chauvanistic husband

While, as mentioned, I do not advocate chauvanism on either side of the line, mamabeth, it sounds as though you and your husband have developed an understanding, and a form of power exchange, which enables you to maintain your relationship in a positive way.

I commend that.

I'm actually surprised that no one has posted what I'm about to say...

This discussion is regarding a very specific type of feminism. If anything, the driving feminist forces in the West at the present moment are of the postmodernist variety, and provide a number of philosophies and theories that are relevant not only to questions of gender but also to issues pertaining to sociology, politics, anthropology, economics, and beyond.

I'm not very well-versed in the postmodernist movement so I hope that someone more knowledgable and eloquent than I comes upon this thread to provide further insight.

reply to post by petrus4


Wow, you launch an emotional attack on your father(which may or not be true) and then proceed to use those energies to try and disarm human beings fighting for the simple right of equality and reasonable equity.

What are we fighting for that is fascist?

Is it fascist to want a chance at a reasonable education?
Is it fascist to want equal reproductive rights?
Is it fascist to want our own birth control pill/implant?
Is it fascist because we demand an end to the mass enslavement of men via the courts?

Are we fascists because we demand an end to the mass discrimination all men face in sentencing?
Are we fascist because we demand equality in the raising of our children?
Is it fascist because we actively resist the lies of the feminist hate movement?
Is it fascist because we demand a human standard for everyone, and an end to female privilege?

If we are fascists pray tell how we are being fascists?
If we are fascists because we have zero tolerance for feminist and other matriarchal/ male hating misandtrist bigots, well then I am proud to be a fascist!

Originally posted by korathin
Is it fascist to want a chance at a reasonable education?

Men have always had that.

Is it fascist to want our own birth control pill/implant?

Isn't that what a vasectomy is?

Mind you, I don't condone birth control on either side of the gender line, personally; and the reason why, is because the one thing birth control always presupposes, is that abstinence is unthinkable.

Is it fascist because we demand an end to the mass enslavement of men via the courts?

If that was all you wanted, sure; but it isn't. I've seen a lot of talk, from the men's rights movement, that what they really want is social dominance. Read Makow. He doesn't want equality; he wants himself and his gender to dominate society, he thinks that it is his God-given right to have that state, and he thinks that the cabal are the only reason why more men don't have it.

I don't condone either gender being dominant; and I also don't believe that there's anyone with an interest in so-called gender equality, on either side of the line, who doesn't want their own gender to be dominant, rather than real equality. The stated desire for equality is a lie in nine out of ten cases.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
Petras,

Very elegantly stated. S&F for you.

I don't consider myself a feminist, but I am concerned with women's rights and equality. Here in the US, women enjoy a lot of opportunities for work and careers, family and religion. We still face a lot of inequalities, too; but these are dwindling.

Equality between the sexes should not mean that we fail to recognize the DIFFERENCES between the sexes. Men are stronger. Women are gentler. A gross generalization, I know. But when our society can acknowledge the strengths of each sex and let those strengths compliment each other....then we will be that much closer to Utopia.

I think the number of abortions, female on male rape(75% of men who are rapists where themselves raped at a young age), female on male domestic violence, and the rampant abuse of children by mothers, it kind of utterly exposes you as a chauvinist.

Women are like men, human beings. Some human beings are good, some are evil, and most are in-between.

And I beg you to please tell me of this discrimination you speak of? Where you actively denied an education because of your gender? Do you have to endure chauvinistic hate rhetoric while attending class?

The fact of the matter is, people like you like to speak up about how "oppressed" women are, to cover up the fact of how women utterly and completely oppress and subjugate men, young men and boy's in Western Society.

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by korathin
Is it fascist to want a chance at a reasonable education?

Men have always had that.

Is it fascist to want our own birth control pill/implant?

Isn't that what a vasectomy is?

Mind you, I don't condone birth control on either side of the gender line, personally; and the reason why, is because the one thing birth control always presupposes, is that abstinence is unthinkable.

Is it fascist because we demand an end to the mass enslavement of men via the courts?

If that was all you wanted, sure; but it isn't. I've seen a lot of talk, from the men's rights movement, that what they really want is social dominance. Read Makow. He doesn't want equality; he wants himself and his gender to dominate society, he thinks that it is his God-given right to have that state, and he thinks that the cabal are the only reason why more men don't have it.

I don't condone either gender being dominant; and I also don't believe that there's anyone with an interest in so-called gender equality, on either side of the line, who doesn't want their own gender to be dominant, rather than real equality. The stated desire for equality is a lie in nine out of ten cases.

I hope everyone notices how utterly dehumanizing this posters replies are.
1) With male students only making up 40-20% of the student body on most college campuses your reply is utterly dishonest.

2) Ahh I see, the whole "sterilize", "keep your pants up and hope your not raped/turkey bastered" and keep your mouth shut. And because of your sensibilities you would deny men an equal chance at reproductive self control. Because your solution to any uppity male is sterilization, I see in your world only women should have such power.

3) Who the Heck is Makow?[I just visited his website] The fact that you quote such a person as a perfect example of a "leader" in the men's rights movement shows your bias.

a) This person has no involvement with the MRM. He is far more involved in the workings of Conspiracy theories then anything else(which is self evident if you visit his website).

b) If you wanted to cast stones, the most controversial, and inflammatory person in the MRM is Angry Harry. While the baseline is Paul Elam(even though he is a lefty atheist he is alright by me mostly). But I guess it is easy to focus on people who have nothing to do with the MRM while renowned feminist's where caught on record plotting genocide in the Agent Orange files, to the point that feminist's from RadFem can no longer book venues at any respectable convention hall due to their outright bigotry anymore.

Originally posted by korathin
But I guess it is easy to focus on people who have nothing to do with the MRM while renowned feminist's where caught on record plotting genocide in the Agent Orange files, to the point that feminist's from RadFem can no longer book venues at any respectable convention hall due to their outright bigotry anymore.

Why are you assuming that I disagree with the idea that feminists are usually also messed up in the head?

My friend, when I said to you that I was at the centre of this argument, I meant it. The entire reason why I get trolled to the extent that I do, is because people always assume that if I am critical of a particular group, then that automatically means that I am a member of the opposite group. I'm not. The single reason why most of you can't comprehend that, is because you generally have never had experience with someone who is truly non-polarised in their thinking. Everyone here is always on exclusively one side or the other; and despite the oceans of talk about equality, it is in reality something outside of most people's comprehension, in real terms.

I don't want male dominance.

I don't want female dominance.

I'm probably the only person you're going to encounter on this forum, who when talking about equality, isn't dishonestly using that as a euphemism for the dominance of their particular group. I'm not a particular fan of either, and I don't want either to be able to dominate everyone else.

So when you say that feminists mistreat and abuse men, I agree. When a feminist says to me that men mistreat and abuse women, I agree. It happens on both sides.

This is also, for the record, what people do not understand about my position concerning the Occupy movement. I am supportive of the job that Occupy are trying to do, but I'm not completely supportive of the way that they (sometimes) choose to go about it; but on the other hand, I also don't agree with conservatives who are determined to hate Occupy exclusively, no matter what they do. I don't hate the group at all...in fact I feel a lot more supportive of them than some of them on here seem to think...I just acknowledge that they aren't perfect either, because that is important.

Justice is balance. Justice is not allowing the prevalence of a single side, at the expense of the other. I want justice.

Originally posted by korathin

Originally posted by smyleegrl
Petras,

Very elegantly stated. S&F for you.

I don't consider myself a feminist, but I am concerned with women's rights and equality. Here in the US, women enjoy a lot of opportunities for work and careers, family and religion. We still face a lot of inequalities, too; but these are dwindling.

Equality between the sexes should not mean that we fail to recognize the DIFFERENCES between the sexes. Men are stronger. Women are gentler. A gross generalization, I know. But when our society can acknowledge the strengths of each sex and let those strengths compliment each other....then we will be that much closer to Utopia.

I think the number of abortions, female on male rape(75% of men who are rapists where themselves raped at a young age), female on male domestic violence, and the rampant abuse of children by mothers, it kind of utterly exposes you as a chauvinist.

Women are like men, human beings. Some human beings are good, some are evil, and most are in-between.

And I beg you to please tell me of this discrimination you speak of? Where you actively denied an education because of your gender? Do you have to endure chauvinistic hate rhetoric while attending class?

The fact of the matter is, people like you like to speak up about how "oppressed" women are, to cover up the fact of how women utterly and completely oppress and subjugate men, young men and boy's in Western Society.

Are you speaking to me? Because there is nothing oppresive in my post. Nor did I advocate the subjacating of boys and men.

Yes, I have experienced disadvantages due to my gender. Numerous examples, mostly with regards to higher education.

And I'm a rape survivor. Hasn't made me a feminist, or a chauvinist.