For Christians: Do your Pre/Mid/Post-tribulation views really matter?

Do your Pre/Mid/Post-tribulation views really matter in the big scheme of things?
I mean, let's say for instance that the rapture will happen before tribulation. Do those who believe in Mid or Post tribulation lose the chance to be raptured? (Or if it's Post-trib, do the pre-Tribs lose out?)

I would think your views on when the rapture happens is not factored in. It's all about whether or not you believe in Christ as the son of God, that he died on the cross for your sins and rose on the third day. And that's it!

And if this is the case, why are we always fighting about it? Maybe we should all just let other Christians with a slightly different rapture-timeline alone? When it happens, it happens, am I right?
I just see so much fighting, name calling and arguing and think: WOW, how un-Christ-like!! I find some of the arguing a tad dangerous for those who want to be (or assume they will be) saved. I think we often forget to treat each other kindly and show love for others regardless of what they think or how they look.

Note: This thread is obviously for people who are Christians and believe in the rapture, regardless of when they think the rapture is. This isn't a place for non-believers to express their idea that it's not real, there is no God, blah blah blah. I see too often in all the Christian threads, atheists go in and take over and completely railroad the thread. You don't believe? I'm sorry for you. But I didn't ask for your opinion on that.

So let's us stay on topic please. I'm asking rapture-believing CHRISTIANS! I know there are a few on here.

reply to post by 08051962
Ho, friend.

My thought is that it only matters in one regard: if the rapture happens pre-tribulation (which I don't believe it does based on two little sections of the new testament, although I am currently looking into revising my views on revelation), then everyone's well and good.

But, if the rapture is NOT pre-tribulation: what does this do to the faith, resulting from the preparedness (or lack thereof) of those who believe they will not see the tribulation?

I believe they will be crushed, disheartened, unprepared, and cast into doubt. They belief system will have been totally called into question. And they will not be ready.

And I believe this is one reason we're told "He who perseveres until the end will be saved". If you persevere no more than anyone else who doesn't even have faith...?

Short of that, however, no. It is not a determining factor of the faith in any means that I am aware of. Just a measure of what you are prepared to endure. And I think the testimony of those in the first few centuries should be our example. Are those who believe they'll be spare the suffering, trial, and tribulation honestly ready to go to their painful executions or other suffering ready to deal with that if it might come?

Or are they just fairweather faithful?

Originally posted by Praetorius
reply to post by 08051962

 

But, if the rapture is NOT pre-tribulation: what does this do to the faith, resulting from the preparedness (or lack thereof) of those who believe they will not see the tribulation?

I believe they will be crushed, disheartened, unprepared, and cast into doubt. They belief system will have been totally called into question. And they will not be ready.

And I believe this is one reason we're told "He who perseveres until the end will be saved". If you persevere no more than anyone else who doesn't even have faith...?

Hi there. Thanks for the reply. You bring up a good point!

As someone who believes in pre-trib I can honestly admit that I am not 100% sure, but I am 100% hopeful (LOL)
So for someone like me, I think there is a better chance of persevering. But I do hear from people who say that they are 100% SURE, that it's pre-trib and you're right. That would be a huge blow to them.

They might think: If not now, is any of it true? (Scary line of thinking)
I am personally leaving it a bit open. I am not one of those people who say mid or post trib is impossible. I hear some pretty compelling arguments for all sides. And that's why I never claim to be 100% sure.

I pray that it is pre-trib though. I'd hate to be here for that! I hope the groom will save his bride BEFORE then lol

If I am to be honest with myself, I would have to admit that I am still on the fence.

Thank you for posting this question, though. I am interested in reading others' perspective.

@Praetorius:
gold-star reply my brother... (or sister)

reply to post by 08051962


I agree fully with Praetorius, in that it's "safer" to believe that we will be entering into the tribulation and not being saved from anything except for God's wrath, at the end.

Gary Kah once said, "Pray for pre-, settle for mid-, prepare for post-" and like Praetorius said, if we assume that we're not entering in the 7 years, and we're wrong, that would totally crush everything we THOUGHT we knew. In fact, it would set up greatly for the "Apostasy" that is to happen - the rebellion.

After all, in Matthew 24:25, Jesus (speaking about the end times), says - "See, I have told you ahead of time."

There would be no point in "preparing" if we're going to be saved from all of it. I think the scripture is very clear that we are, indeed, going into the tribulation, and I believe it starts.. with the 7 year peace treaty.

reply to post by 08051962
I'll definitely approve your sentiments, even if I can't agree with the conclusion.

If you'd care for my reasoning on the matter, I'll provide:the term rapture, and the whole idea behind it, comes primarily from 1st Thessalonians ch. 4:

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

We've got the trumpet of God (which I believe to be a direct reference to the Feast of Trumpets and the day of judgement, Rosh Hashanah, one of the jewish High Holy Days - all of which are highly symbolic of the life and mission of the messiah), a resurrection of the dead believers, then conversion of the rest.

Now let's move to Revelation ch. 20:

Rev 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain.

Rev 20:2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,

Rev 20:3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.

This is the first resurrection.

Here we've got those who, during the tribulation, did not worship the Beast or his image, who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, coming to life and reigning for the millenial kingdom. This being the first resurrection.

Granted, this is highly dependent on how you interpret Revelation - but, as I was raised, at least, it's a valid book - and these sections clearly seem to say that the FIRST RESURRECTION of believers in Christ will not take place until after the tribulation - which means that the rapture discussed in Thessalonians is the same thing, and also does not occur until afterward.

I know we would like to not take place in such unpleasantness - but think of the situation of those believers in the first 3 centuries or so who went gladly to their (horrific) deaths singing praise and offering forgiveness in the example of Stephen (my namesake).

We do not have an easy time before us, I believe. And I prefer to be ready for this, even if I am wrong.

Be blessed - and prepared to be worthy of such.

Originally posted by Lionhearte
reply to post by 08051962

 

Gary Kah once said, "Pray for pre-, settle for mid-, prepare for post-" and like Praetorius said, if we assume that we're not entering in the 7 years, and we're wrong, that would totally crush everything we THOUGHT we knew. In fact, it would set up greatly for the "Apostasy" that is to happen - the rebellion.

After all, in Matthew 24:25, Jesus (speaking about the end times), says - "See, I have told you ahead of time."

There would be no point in "preparing" if we're going to be saved from all of it. I think the scripture is very clear that we are, indeed, going into the tribulation, and I believe it starts.. with the 7 year peace treaty.

Ha! I love that Gary Kah quote! LOL true. Very true

And I'm one of those people who you might call a "prepper"... except not as hard core as those you see on those TV shows with bunkers and 7 years worth of food stored up. I started a garden (and have already been eating off of it). Starting to collect more water. I'm a newbie prepper...

So deep inside I guess I feel that all this HAS to be done. But I have a sadness in my heart because my family, it doesn't seem, really believe in Christ. And if the rapture takes place before or partway through the Tribulation, they will be on their own. Not that I take charge of anything family related but I AM the only one thinking about preparing for some disaster (tribulation-scale disasters) So part of my buying bulks of food is also for THEM in case I'm gone. (I'm 25 and live with my parents. I know my dad can take care of himself but I don't know about my mom. We're not originally from this country. Her dwindling family is in Japan.)

reply to post by 08051962


I don't know if those who arent looking toward a pre-trib will be raptured or not. Heck, I believe in a pre-trib timing yet don't feel worthy to go myself. The rapture is a blessing for the overcomer, not for salvation. So I dunno, we can only pray that we be accounted worthy and leave it all in God's hand. We are supposed to occupy till He returns anyways. Or plan for the future like He may tarry 1000 more years, but live morally like He could return tonight. Also, the timing of the rapture is nothing to fight over, it has nothing to do with salvation.

reply to post by 08051962


Most pre trib rapture believers base their belief on a few bible passages that are very much misinterpreted .
ie. 1 Thesolonians 4:17 were its peaks of being caught up in the clouds in the air to meet Christ . The subject of tis verse was established a few verses earlier when Paul was teaching that we alive can not precede the dead in Christ because they have already risen to Christ , the Church has no article here in these verses.

Further Paul wrote 2 Thesolonians chapter 2 to answer the church about the confusion his statement caused . He wrote in 2Thes. 2:3 - 2:6 that don't be confused about the gathering back to Christ by any means including the letter from me. The gathering back will not happen until the man of sin ( Satan ) stands in the temple proclaiming to be God.

Since Satan comes at the sixth trump and Jesus comes at the final seventh trump , we all have to go through the tribulation. This is why we have to put on the gospel armor and the elect can not be touched by Satans locust army for God warned him " touch not mine elect " . If you are delivered up before Satan to give testimony against him then and only then can Satan touch you.

The parable of the tares tells us that the first people to be harvested is the tares which Christ was eluding to that you do not want to be taken first as in being raptured. Also look to Ezekiel 13:18-13:21 KJV ( all others have been changed to hide the truth) God is against those who teach his children to fly to save their souls.

reply to post by Azadok2day


Again, that is not the point of this thread to try to convince someone that it is or isn't pre-trib.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by 08051962

 

Also, the timing of the rapture is nothing to fight over, it has nothing to do with salvation.

edit on 7-6-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

My thoughts exactly. I see people yelling at each other about it and think how much hate they must hold towards one another. And to hate someone is the murder them.

Dangerous stuff. I try my best to stay out of those arguments and stay level-headed.

Originally posted by 08051962

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by 08051962

 

Also, the timing of the rapture is nothing to fight over, it has nothing to do with salvation.

edit on 7-6-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

My thoughts exactly. I see people yelling at each other about it and think how much hate they must hold towards one another. And to hate someone is the murder them.

Dangerous stuff. I try my best to stay out of those arguments and stay level-headed.

People go crazy over secondary and tertiary doctrines which is quite odd really. If people want to fight I'll leave, not worth the argument. Besides, pride is at the root of all contention. Just serve the Lord and love everyone as yourself and let the Lord settle everything. If you get raptured beforehand awesome, rejoice. If you don't they rejoice that you can get a martyrs crown.

Originally posted by 08051962

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by 08051962

 

Also, the timing of the rapture is nothing to fight over, it has nothing to do with salvation.

edit on 7-6-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

My thoughts exactly. I see people yelling at each other about it and think how much hate they must hold towards one another. And to hate someone is the murder them.

Dangerous stuff. I try my best to stay out of those arguments and stay level-headed.

You may not feel it is important weather or not you believe in the rapture or not but it is very important and I will tell you why . God expects us to Study to show thyself approved to God 2Tim 2:15 . If we believe a false teaching of man when the bible is clear about the subject then God looks at us as accursed . Cursed is the man who puts his faith in man . If you believe in a false teaching like the pre trib rapture, then there is absolutely no way you can have on the gospel armor of God and you are therefore open to attack by Satans army .

reply to post by Azadok2day


Timing of the rapture is a tertiary doctrine. It's irrelevant in regards to salvation. If it's pre-trib great if not great too, then we can get a martyr's crown. Most folks wont live to even see the beginning of the tribulation, WW3 will kill many billions of folks before that point even arrives. Lke I said, plan for the future as if the Lord will tarry another 1000 years, and live your life morally as if He will come back tonight. It's all in His hands, we are to occupy till He comes, lets concentrate on souls not the timing of the rapture.

Originally posted by stupid girl
If I am to be honest with myself, I would have to admit that I am still on the fence.

Thank you for posting this question, though. I am interested in reading others' perspective.

@Praetorius:
gold-star reply my brother... (or sister)

aaack!
just realized I misunderstood your question...lol

I'm on the fence about the timing of the rapture, not on the fence in regard to if you'll get left it you don't believe the right one.

Having said that, I say I'm "on the fence" but what I truly mean by that is what NuT & Praetorius have already eloquently stated. I'm prepared either way, but ask for wisdom and discernment daily.

Re: Revelation of Destruction

Through a significant amount of evaluation and deep, personal experience, I've come to conclude that the Revelataion of John symbolizes what may be called "the dark night of the soul". It is not meant to be read literally, but represents a highly complex spiritual ordeal.

It is also a test, as to what we think of God and who God is post-Christ.

Read back to front, it is a type of joke, with a very happy beginning/ending.

Read forward, and taken literally, it's a trap.

The trap being that there are those who in their heart of hearts would take pleasure and joy in the idea of being part of a saved inside club, with everyone else headed for a tortorous existence in the pits of hellfire, and who would use the Bible, as a tool or a weapon for invoking terror, as opposed to an invitation as given by the Spirit and the Bride say as outlined on the last page.

It is a way of gatekeeping the gate of eternal life.

Most self-professed Christians who deal in it, and in hellfire proseletizing, sadly, fall straight into the trap, by making of a loving God, the destroyer/dominator.

Take heed all who can.

So in answer to the OP, no, our views on it don't really matter, and it's (the so-called "Tribulation") probably bogus doctrine to begin with, possibly inserted to sow strife and confusion among the Protestant Chuches.


Best Regards,

NAM

P.S. As an aside, it's too bad that George W Bush and company didn't realize this before authorizing the 9/11 black-op which has everything to do with end-times prophecy, and an attempt to rescript the greater horrors contained therein.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Azadok2day

 

Timing of the rapture is a tertiary doctrine. It's irrelevant in regards to salvation. If it's pre-trib great if not great too, then we can get a martyr's crown. Most folks wont live to even see the beginning of the tribulation, WW3 will kill many billions of folks before that point even arrives. Lke I said, plan for the future as if the Lord will tarry another 1000 years, and live your life morally as if He will come back tonight. It's all in His hands, we are to occupy till He comes, lets concentrate on souls not the timing of the rapture.

edit on 7-6-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Great, i agree. That being said, i vote for mid-trib because in order for the Son of Perdition to be revealed the Restrainer has to be removed and in order for that to happen his agents that he dwells in have to take an extended vacation. That will probably be when morality totally disappears from the world. My thoughts on it anyways.

Originally posted by Lionhearte
reply to post by 08051962

 

I agree fully with Praetorius, in that it's "safer" to believe that we will be entering into the tribulation and not being saved from anything except for God's wrath, at the end.

Gary Kah once said, "Pray for pre-, settle for mid-, prepare for post-" and like Praetorius said, if we assume that we're not entering in the 7 years, and we're wrong, that would totally crush everything we THOUGHT we knew. In fact, it would set up greatly for the "Apostasy" that is to happen - the rebellion.

After all, in Matthew 24:25, Jesus (speaking about the end times), says - "See, I have told you ahead of time."

There would be no point in "preparing" if we're going to be saved from all of it. I think the scripture is very clear that we are, indeed, going into the tribulation, and I believe it starts.. with the 7 year peace treaty.

The Apostacy began in earnest when all the Apostles died, been going on ever since. Look at christianity today, most people that call themselves christian wouldn't donate a dollar to give a bum a Macdonald's cheeseburger if it saved his life. Others still would rather hawk a blessed handkerchief for 500 bucks (televangelists), and other still would buy those 500 dollar handkerchiefs when they could use that money to do some real good. Then you have career pastors who were not called to preach go to bible college, just to be a preacher for the money (and my mother in law's church just fired their pastor that did just that, stealing his sermons from a radio show's internet site and got caught).

For those who truly love their King and are loyal to him there is only one recourse and Yeshua says it best here:

Revelation 2:5-6 5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. 6 But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

The way back home comes in returning to the first century where it all began.

I am post-trib; I prefer to be prepared for the worst and if I turn out to be wrong, I will be pleasantly surprised. However, I view it as a peripheral doctrine. I don't believe one's salvation is even remotely related to ones beliefs about eschatology.

My sister-in-law, on the other hand, is pre-trib and she views any alternative view as heresy. In fact she was shocked to find out that there even WAS an alternative view.

I'm not expecting any rapture except at the final return of Christ.

The earnestness of some pre-trib believers implies at least the unconscious belief that people not sharing that assumption will "miss out" in some way if God acts in a way they're not expecting, but I don't see any Biblical reason why this should be the case. Presumably the criterion for "rapture" would be belief in Christ, rather than belief in the "rapture" as such or any particular form of it.