How to be spirtual in today's age, with logic and reason, and without stone age religion?

I do not see any reason why spirituality and science cannot go hand in hand. The more I learn about the mechanics of how the universe works the more amazing it seems. The fact that I am related to every life form on this planet, that everything on this planet indeed the universe issued forth from one singularity and the fact that ultimately my body is made from the dust of ancient stars I find truly incredible. You, me and everything in the entire universe were once one and the same.

Ultimately I believe we still are but for whatever reason we now believe that what constitutes ‘you’ or 'I' begins in your brain and ends at your skin. Now think about this for a second. How can you once be everything that ever has, was and will exist and suddenly be simply one solitary human whose existence now has a defined start and end point. It is simply an illusion of consciousness. Time and Space do not exist. They are simply processes which give your individuated little portion of (imho) a far greater consciousness the illusion that everything is not happening all at once and all at the same time.



This type of thinking (which is entirely correct - spiritually, metaphysically, logically and scientifically) I believe gives the universe, and in turn our lives, far more depth than anything found in dusty old religious tomes.

It has been proven that the subconscious mind can affect the very building blocks that make up all matter and energy within the universe. Take this to the next logical step and this means that consciousness does not need a physical receptacle in order to exist. Take this to its logical conclusion and it means that not only is there probably some sort of ‘afterlife’, but also that you yourself are capable of changing the reality around you simply by the way you think. I have no doubt that this will one day be proven by science itself, but as I said by using logic itself you can see that what I have said is a far more likely scenario than the ‘we are merely passive victims in a world we have no control over’ scenario into which we have all be indoctrinated into since birth.

God exists. He is the whole universe and everything in it including you.

On a practical level meditation is the key. Look around you, feel the breeze on your cheek, wonder in awe at the little stars twinkling in the night and consider that what you see actually happened billions of years ago. Now think, where is this all happening? Despite what you may believe it is not happening ‘out there’. It is all happening inside your head. Everything you see, feel , taste, sense are merely neurological responses to various stimuli upon the nerve endings of your body which are then interpreted by your brain into the what we believe the world around looks like. But, your senses are merely just tools with limitations; and it is still only happening in your head no matter how much you would like to think otherwise. When you learn to meditate you learn to control the inward flow of this stimuli and for once in your life ‘simply be’. This is your true self.

Look into to other belief systems but be careful to separate out the doctrine and the dogma with the true message which ultimately lies at the core but have been muddled through time and the twisted agendas of men. For within all belief systems lies a small glimpse, a facet upon the gem of ultimate Truth.

Now tell me…..do you feel like a spiritual being now?

you can't be spirtual till you be yourself

Originally posted by 1littlewolf

This type of thinking (which is entirely correct - spiritually, metaphysically, logically and scientifically) I believe gives the universe, and in turn our lives, far more depth than anything found in dusty old religious tomes.

At their best, the scriptures are essentially trip reports. That may sound irreverent, but that is what we're talking about, here.

Just Be.

For a while I've been sort of taking in things from all different spiritual teachings, as well as constantly refining and expanding upon my logic and overall range of knowledge.

Now, I think I want to actively create my own religion...the idea of creating your own religion is fascinating. It opens up a real freedom to be creative, and yet be fully immersed in your creation, just as any other religious person. Beyond this, any religion I create is going to be far more logical and consistent with scientific knowledge than the ancient ones.

Originally posted by 1littlewolf
I do not see any reason why spirituality and science cannot go hand in hand. The more I learn about the mechanics of how the universe works the more amazing it seems. The fact that I am related to every life form on this planet, that everything on this planet indeed the universe issued forth from one singularity and the fact that ultimately my body is made from the dust of ancient stars I find truly incredible. You, me and everything in the entire universe were once one and the same.

Ultimately I believe we still are but for whatever reason we now believe that what constitutes ‘you’ or 'I' begins in your brain and ends at your skin. Now think about this for a second. How can you once be everything that ever has, was and will exist and suddenly be simply one solitary human whose existence now has a defined start and end point. It is simply an illusion of consciousness. Time and Space do not exist. They are simply processes which give your individuated little portion of (imho) a far greater consciousness the illusion that everything is not happening all at once and all at the same time.

This type of thinking (which is entirely correct - spiritually, metaphysically, logically and scientifically) I believe gives the universe, and in turn our lives, far more depth than anything found in dusty old religious tomes.

It has been proven that the subconscious mind can affect the very building blocks that make up all matter and energy within the universe. Take this to the next logical step and this means that consciousness does not need a physical receptacle in order to exist. Take this to its logical conclusion and it means that not only is there probably some sort of ‘afterlife’, but also that you yourself are capable of changing the reality around you simply by the way you think. I have no doubt that this will one day be proven by science itself, but as I said by using logic itself you can see that what I have said is a far more likely scenario than the ‘we are merely passive victims in a world we have no control over’ scenario into which we have all be indoctrinated into since birth.

God exists. He is the whole universe and everything in it including you.

On a practical level meditation is the key. Look around you, feel the breeze on your cheek, wonder in awe at the little stars twinkling in the night and consider that what you see actually happened billions of years ago. Now think, where is this all happening? Despite what you may believe it is not happening ‘out there’. It is all happening inside your head. Everything you see, feel , taste, sense are merely neurological responses to various stimuli upon the nerve endings of your body which are then interpreted by your brain into the what we believe the world around looks like. But, your senses are merely just tools with limitations; and it is still only happening in your head no matter how much you would like to think otherwise. When you learn to meditate you learn to control the inward flow of this stimuli and for once in your life ‘simply be’. This is your true self.

Look into to other belief systems but be careful to separate out the doctrine and the dogma with the true message which ultimately lies at the core but have been muddled through time and the twisted agendas of men. For within all belief systems lies a small glimpse, a facet upon the gem of ultimate Truth.

Now tell me…..do you feel like a spiritual being now?

edit on 7/6/2012 by 1littlewolf because: (no reason given)

This is Science of Mind.

Beautifully written.

there's nothing that you need to do to be considered spiritual. you're focusing too much on your image. do you want to "look" spiritual, or "be" spiritual? you can sit in a prison cell your entire life and be spiritual. it's not about what you do. it's about how you live.

just be.

it doesn't matter what you do or where you go. the spirit is within.

Originally posted by InTheShadows
There's a part of me that kind of looks down on them. Feels sorry for them. I've had a lot of practice though because in my 35 years I've had to watch my mother not progress at all emotionally or intellectually because she believes in the bible and tries very hard to live by the word of God. Whatever that is.

It's kind of sad really to see people like that. I believe that if you do good things, good things will come back to you. I've seen it first hand in my own life and I see no reason to believe that it won't happen when I die. I try not to speculate on that too much because there is no way I'll ever know for certain what will happen when I die, and neither does anyone else.

I like to try and keep things simple, and just by doing that it seems I distance myself from the religious crowd. It just seems that they complicate things without even knowing it, and it gets them nowhere.

What's the saying - Mom's know best? Of course you and anyone else can know - and it only involves humbling your heart in repentance before the throne of God and asking for Faith. Just like that, your heart and mind are turned towards Jesus. But the youth today would rather try out anything before doing that! Oh no, it's '___' or other crazy drugs, or the eastern religions with their chants and altered states of consciousness. Why? The bottom line is they have been indoctrinated to reject the very notion that a Creator could and would demand an accounting of their life's actions. It rubs their self-righteousness and self arrogance the wrong way, both traits which you demonstrate by saying that you feel sorry for your mother and those of us who do strive to obey the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. You think that 'spirituality' is true only if it doesn't involve expectations on your conduct or behaviour. But what is good? Are you a good person compared to the murderer next door? Scripture is there for instruction, it's like a mirror in which we see that our own behaviours fall short of God's definition of 'good' which never change. It then leads us to change our behaviours and actions, and it's a continual process as He brings forth more truths through the Holy Spirit. He brings a life of peace to many formerly troubled individuals. They learn to love Him as they realise just how much He loves them. So please don't feel sorry for your mom or others like us, but rather learn to feel sorry for those who cannot distinguish 'religion' from a life walking with God.

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
But the youth today would rather try out anything before doing that! Oh no, it's '___' or other crazy drugs, or the eastern religions with their chants and altered states of consciousness. Why? The bottom line is they have been indoctrinated to reject the very notion that a Creator could and would demand an accounting of their life's actions.

You think that 'spirituality' is true only if it doesn't involve expectations on your conduct or behaviour.

Well this is just narrow minded, isn't it?

Who says that people of other belief systems don't accept responsibility for the actions that they take in life? This is actually what the concept of reincarnation is all about. The concept of hell doesn't make sense to me, because what is the point of somebody being punished for all eternity when they will never emerge with any insight or lessons learned? If anything, the concept of reincarnation makes more sense to me because if you do something wrong you have to come back and try again until you get it right.

A person kills somebody and goes to hell for eternity. Okay... then what? What did they learn?

I think that a truly loving creator would want us to properly learn lessons through many lifetimes of experience instead of simply resorting to "Oh boy, you messed up big time. You're going into the big barbecue below lol"

Originally posted by zenjewel

This is Science of Mind.

Beautifully written.

Thanks so much zenjewel.

I believe ultimately this is where spirituality will head in the future. New discoveries in science are beginning to, if not confirm then at least support the core teachings and messages of many different belief systems which have been around in some cases for many millennia.

But one thing I believe which I think will be helpful to many in consolidating their religious/spiritual beliefs with those of modern day science is simply the act that there is no magic curtain or veil which separates the physical world from the spiritual

As stated in the Emerald Tablet of Hermes Trismegistus which dates back probably at least 2000 years, and was inspiration to many alchemists and early scientists including Isaac Newton – As above, so below. The macrocosm is mirrored in the microcosm. The spiritual world is merely a more subtle version of the physical world and I do not believe there is any distinct point or line in the sand that one can draw which separates the two. It is merely just we do not as yet have the tools or apparatus which are capable of distinguishing, measuring and thus quantifying the spiritual world. All we can measure is the physical effects produced by it upon the ‘physical’ plane which can easily be dismissed by the skeptical mind as being produced by either chance or some possibly some other physical input to the system.

It is my belief that the ultimate truth of our existence is far simpler than most suspect, and when we as a collective whole finally realize it we will think “Of course”.

For deep down I believe we will each have known this truth all along, and it is just that it has been buried deep down in the workings of our subconscious mind under many lifetimes of distractions and unwarranted fears.

reply to post by Confusion42

Errr, hard to explain. Anyhow, how do some of you (who aren't bible thumpers), be spiritual?

Embrace life. Practice mindfulness.

This is an interesting topic for my first post on here. Up until relatively recently I had a similar almost allergic reaction to religion. I've always considered myself to be a spiritual person - even for a few years when I would have classed myself as an atheist. I was raised an Irish Catholic but abandoned that religion in my teens. I live in a Buddhist country and my son is being raised as a Buddhist. I don't consider myself to be Buddhist, but I have been deeply influenced by these teachings.

My experience with Buddhism has greatly increased my understanding of all religions. I suspect that it is possible for a spiritual person to make great progress in any religion if they are seekers. It is also possible to make great progress without religion, but my experience is that this path does make us more tolerant of the religious. I use meditation and lucid dreaming/ out of body experiences as part of my spiritual path. I no longer follow any teacher or belong to any group. I would still say that I've far more in common with the religious than the scientific materialist/ atheist.

We all have our own path but if your spiritual seeking takes you beyond the current scientific materialist paradigm you make yourself a target for attack. You will be accused of dabbling with ‘woo woo’ or that you have low intelligence and are lacking in courage to face death. This has brought me closer to spiritual seekers of all stripes because at the end of the day we have a common goal.

Good luck to you!

Originally posted by zenjewel
That is certainly one way to look at it. Yes, you will never be satisfied with what you find because you are human. Even the most spiritual beings on earth still feel heartache.

That is untrue, because I am satisfied with what I find. I enjoy life. I find it beautiful. Living is fun for me. I don't yearn for something more. I would suggest everyone here stop speaking in the second person, because you will always be wrong.

No one's treating anyone different here. All we are doing is discussing each others ideas.

Oh no, it's '___' or other crazy drugs, or the eastern religions with their chants and altered states of consciousness. Why? The bottom line is they have been indoctrinated to reject the very notion that a Creator could and would demand an accounting of their life's actions.

Silly Eastern people...their arrogant notion of Karma, the idea that every experience you have is determined by your life's actions, where good actions produce good results and bad actions produce bad results. There's just no accountability for life's actions there!

reply to post by Confusion42


Yes, go find some Buddhist monks. Just make sure they are practitioners of meditation.

"Religion is learning how to project the known unto the unknown, while spirituality is learning how to set aside the known in order to inquire into the unknown."

"Spirituality is inquiring into the unknown, religion is the supposed answer to the unknown, thus religion is the death of spirituality".

"Religion is for those who are fearful of an idea called hell, while spirituality is for those who have already lived through the actuality of hell."

I'm a corporeal being. I can imagine the concept of spirituality, but the truth is that there's nothing associated with the corporeal realm that verifies or validates the concept of spirituality as being anything other than a human construct. Obviously something exists that affects the human experience in ways that are difficult to immediately associate with the mundane aspects of material reality, but for modern humanity to forever restrict the definition of these difficult to determine aspects to the fevered interpretations of people who were the "powers that be" during times in human humanity when people (in general) were physically isolated from others, and profoundly ignorant of even the most determinable reality staples, seems like a terrible way to approach what most claim are the "ultimate questions". Personally, I don't believe that "spirituality" exists, and that's a result of years of examining the nature of the sort of stuff that's considered to be spiritual.

Seriously. How does anyone actually be "spiritual", when there's no possible way to stop being 100% corporeal (material) until the day you die? I think that the word itself has turned into a definition collector. Hell, it's easy to point to an emotional surge and claim spiritual enlightenment. That's no accomplishment. Meditation is nothing more than emptying your head of thoughts and fighting to keep it empty. How is that spiritual? It's as corporeal-centric as you can get - deliberately training your brain to stop ruminating. But it's a go-to when it's time to get spiritual. I don't know.

I remember when I was riding up to a lake in Upstate New York with my younger brother and his family back in the late 1970s, and he hadn't taken his studded snowtires off yet. We ran into a police stop on the 2 lane highway, and he was facing a 200 dollar fine as we waited in line for the cops to bust him for the tires (they used to have these check points to keep the roads from getting destroyed and they took it seriously). One car before we got there, the cops suddenly packed up and raced off. My brother and his wife had been praying their *sses off while we inched forward in line toward the check point, and when the cops suddenly left, he made a big deal about how their faith had saved them from getting a ticket. He kept it up all day long, since I was an agnostic concerning God's hands-on management of a person's life.

Later, I found out that the cops left because they were the closest crew to a really bad accident (4 deaths) that had just happened on a similar 2 lane highway in those mountains. So much for divine intervention. I never told him about that, and he still points to that incident as conclusive evidence that God works miracles for people who have faith in their Christian spirituality. I run into that same kind of weird certainty all the time when discussing things that range from sore feet to panic attacks with "spiritual" people.

Good luck trying to find a non-faithbased spirituality. It doesn't exist.

reply to post by NorEaster

Seriously. How does anyone actually be "spiritual", when there's no possible way to stop being 100% corporeal (material) until the day you die? I think that the word itself has turned into a definition collector. Hell, it's easy to point to an emotional surge and claim spiritual enlightenment. That's no accomplishment. Meditation is nothing more than emptying your head of thoughts and fighting to keep it empty. How is that spiritual? It's as corporeal-centric as you can get - deliberately training your brain to stop ruminating. But it's a go-to when it's time to get spiritual. I don't know.

I understand your psychological frustration. The process of thought that has constructed this notion of 'self' you have, has mistakenly identified itself with the body, thus you are trapped in a decaying material form. That has to be very depressing and limiting indeed. So I have compassion and empathy for your troubles. I will agree with you on a few points though:

1. The word/concept of spirituality is relatively useless and can be very deluding. In fact, it can act as the atomic bunker for the ego which is being sought for dissolution. I have no problem with throwing this word out the window.

2. Spiritual enlightenment is no accomplishment, true. But only because there is the realization that there is no permanent entity to claim such a thing.

However, I also don't think you have any clue about the ancient eastern traditions that have posited such ideas as "enlightenment". Nor do I think you have the slightest understanding about what meditation is, much less have you ever sought 'real world' verification through practicing it. Not very scientific to make sweeping accusations and statements without any research, inquiry, trial and testing, now is it? Not only is it scientifically verified, by Richard Davidson and others, that the meditative brain has more neurological connections than the non-meditative brain, which translates into increased intelligence, attention, insofar as the ability to overcome anxiety, depression, fear, anger, but it is also shown to increase the ability of the body to heal itself. 100% material or not, the value of this cannot be denied for human life.

A few thing you should study up on:
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Confusion42
Anyhow, how do some of you (who aren't bible thumpers), be spiritual?

I know this is going to sound absurd, but at least it's real. I feel tremendous joy watching the antics of the two squirrels in my yard. They run away from nothing chasing them. They dare themselves to come up on the porch and run under my chair. One of them scratched at my door, and when I opened it, the squirrel backed away just a couple of feet and I swear it looked like it was bowing to me.

If 'spiritual' means reaching inside of us and making us feel wonderful, then that's what the squirrels do for me. I have no anger while watching them. The concerns of the world take a time out. I don't wish to be anywhere else while in their presence. I don't wish my life had turned out better. I'm not thinking about money or my ill health or anything. If there be angels, they are little gray creatures with fluffy tails.