Slapped in the Face by ATF Today

reply to post by seabag


I understand your frustration at not being able to purchase the gun you wanted especially if your background is clean as you indicated. I asked a friend who used to sell guns in the retail sector for his ideas. Some of the possibilities which may or may not have been mentioned in this thread without me reading all 12 pages to date were:

The sales clerk triggered an alert to the ATF agent using a few select code words which mean he or she really did not want to make the sale but due to the customer standing right in front of them or within earshot could not say that out loud.

This could be based upon comments made by the potential purchaser, even in jest; other reasons include the buyer appearing to be intoxicated, nervous or agitated.

Late evening purchases can also trigger a hold, especially by over tired clerks or even agents at the receiving end of the information.

Comments about our government needing all this frickin information can cause a problem with some clerks. In many retail stores, especially in the big box stores, the sales clerk has the right to determine whether or not a gun will be sold to an individual or not, even if he or she consults their supervisor. It all has to do with liability. If the clerk is not comfortable with a sale for whatever reason, that sale won't occur, at least not at the time requested.

Of course the most obvious is that your name/ and/or date of birth is similiar to someone who recently committed a crime or who is on one of the many "watch lists" issued by various alphabet agencies.

A lack of confidence in the person giving the information to the agent can trigger a hold if it is relayed by someone who is relatively new on the job and appears unsure of him or her self.

Another one is the clerk relayed the wrong information by telephone for your ss # or dob or other information.

Refusal to give a ss# can also cause a delay.

There are more, but these are the primary ones that could cause a hold and not things people are always aware of.

reply to post by Urbanshadow

I just wondered why you had so many, and what you wanted another one for?

We enjoy collecting and shooting different types of firearms. It is actually fun to shoot; and, each weapon has its own handling characteristics.

For self defense, certain types of weapons are better than others. Also, each person has their own preferences in such choices. For pleasure shooting, the more the merrier. This is not easy to understand until you have actually fired an assortment of firearms.

The US is a great deal larger than you might think. The police are minutes or even hours away when seconds count. The Supreme Court has held that police officers do not have to place themselves at risk to protect citizens. Police are armed in order to protect themselves. The police are also chickens unless they can muster overwelming odds against even the family dog. Read about the "Columbine Massacre", where heavily armed police with body armor waited outside a besieged school for three hours until the killers took their own lives. We are actually "on our own" as far as self defense is concerned. Self preservation is a "Natural Right", yet another reason our Founders installed the Second Ammendment.

My previous boss is a British Subject who lives here in the states. He thought the Second Ammendment was rubbish until his home was burglerized while he and his wife were home. He now proudly carries a Smith & Wesson .40 calibre automatic pistol which I have taught him to shoot. Now he thinks that the British government is derelict in not allowing its citizens to protect themselves. That is the difference between "subjects" and "citizens": note the difference well.

I am 63 years old, and have never witnessed a gunfight, nor do I know anyone that has been killed by a firearm, or even one who has used one in defense. The news is bloated with numerical exaggerations of firearm deaths. One is far more likely to be killed by a drunk driver or even the family physician.

Originally posted by Urbanshadow
reply to post by seabag

 

We are not allowed to own firearms here (in the UK) without a special licence. I just wondered why you had so many, and what you wanted another one for?

Doesn't matter. It's nobody's business. Why does my neighbor have 8 cars? Who cares? It's none of my business and there isn't a law against it. A family friend use to collect Winchesters; it was his hobby. He had chrome ones, blue steel ones, you name it. Just like collecting anything else.

reply to post by Urbanshadow


Does he need to answer to you? How many automobiles do you have? How many televisions do you have? How many bedrooms do you have in your house?

Answer is simple....because he wants them. Its none of your business now is it?

reply to post by Swing80s

In WA along with a few other states, when you buy a new firearm, the ATF/FBI fire the first shot from your pistol to keep on file.

Not in WA state. Those are test rounds, not all companies give you the casings either.

Could this be a result of the government classifying veterans as possible terrorist threats? I've heard it's been going on a while now.

Load of crap if you ask me.

Thanks for your service. Semper Fi.

SB, It had been so far back I'd forgotten about it but I have a story for you:

20 years ago I was working as a gun engraver. It was a real hassle not having a FFL so I decided to get one. At the time the fee was only $100. Between the time I sent it in and when they got around to processing it they upped the fee for FFL's to $500. That was a $400 difference I couldn't afford so I told them to forget it.
End result was I had to move 150 miles just so I could continue to work under someone else's Federal firearms license. The place I was working for was shut down for 6 months while the BATF did an audit of our warehouse that had thousands of guns and ten of thousands of parts, every last one of which had to be accounted for.
It turns out an electrician who did some work on the building stole a S&W PC9 and later robbed a bank with it)
Once again I was forced by the BATF to find something else to do to earn a living so I learned how to engrave jewelry just so I wouldn't have to hassle with the BATF ever again......that was the best move I ever made.

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by Urbanshadow
reply to post by seabag

 

We are not allowed to own firearms here (in the UK) without a special licence. I just wondered why you had so many, and what you wanted another one for?

Ahhh. Our government doesn't 'allow' us to own firearms, we claim it as our right.

I wonder why you never did the same.

The Brits never had a 'right' to anything, untill they joined the EU, even that does not give them the 'right' to own firearms (guns have wheels)

reply to post by Citybig

yet we have more political parties,

What are the numbers on that anyway?

I was curious, since most foreigners think that we have two parties in the US. Wiki currently lists 43.

When we in the US watch the UK news, we might be led to believe that there are two parties over there, since those are the ones that apparently shape policy.

Originally posted by butcherguy
When we in the US watch the UK news, we might be led to believe that there are two parties over there, since those are the ones that apparently shape policy.

That you in the US watch our news or are even aware of nations outside of your borders is interesting, however to answer your question there are 419 registered political parties with a further 50 in Northern Ireland.

reply to post by Citybig

Not much reaction to the Conservative vs. Labour point, eh?

How about that House of Lords?
How many elected persons sitting in that body? What party do you have to belong to in order to vote someone into the House of Lords?

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Citybig

 

Not much reaction to the Conservative vs. Labour point, eh?

How about that House of Lords?
How many elected persons sitting in that body? What party do you have to belong to in order to vote someone into the House of Lords?

Still far more democratic than your country. Without them, our government would have pullled us down long, long ago.

Originally posted by Citybig

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Citybig

 

Not much reaction to the Conservative vs. Labour point, eh?

How about that House of Lords?
How many elected persons sitting in that body? What party do you have to belong to in order to vote someone into the House of Lords?

Still far more democratic than your country. Without them, our government would have pullled us down long, long ago.

If you Brits need the NOBILITY to run your lives, that's your problem.

So maybe some nobleman on his estate is the one telling you that you should care about our gun laws?

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by Citybig

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Citybig

 

Not much reaction to the Conservative vs. Labour point, eh?

How about that House of Lords?
How many elected persons sitting in that body? What party do you have to belong to in order to vote someone into the House of Lords?

Still far more democratic than your country. Without them, our government would have pullled us down long, long ago.

If you Brits need the NOBILITY to run your lives, that's your problem.

So maybe some nobleman on his estate is the one telling you that you should care about our gun laws?

You yanks needed corporations to run your lives, the corporations collapsed and now it's everyones problem.

Our system still stands, and will still be standing long, long after your artificial plastic country has withdrawn itself to the dustbins of history.

Originally posted by Urbanshadow
reply to post by seabag

 

I just wondered why you had so many, and what you wanted another one for?

Its a matter of taste....they're like tattoos, once you get one, you want 10 more. And you definitely want a gun for every occasion....I have some that match me shoes.

Hoorah, semper fidelis, gung ho gung ho.........

Which is a good enough reason as any....

reply to post by Citybig

You yanks needed corporations to run your lives, the corporations collapsed and now it's everyones problem.

Got a little news for you. Corporations are global.... They run you too.

And most of Europe is in fine fiscal shape? What alternate reality is that from?

reply to post by Citybig


And us wankers need to be on the queens dole? Oh how honored I am to receive this hand out from the great poo bah Queen of hypocrisy and ruler of all US of A.

You again huh? Thats ok homie, I can dig it. Your blinded by pride.......which is ok....until your jarred awake. Thats ok laddie, you can say it.

It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong, or a regular sized man and a midget. And like a midget at a urinal, around you im gonna have to stay on my toes!

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Citybig

 

You yanks needed corporations to run your lives, the corporations collapsed and now it's everyones problem.

Got a little news for you. Corporations are global.... They run you too.

And most of Europe is in fine fiscal shape? What alternate reality is that from?

Got a little more news for you, in no other nation do corporations have anywhere near as much control or influence over national and gubernational politics as they do in the US. Big business governs every aspect of your lives and politics.

Imagine if you had a house of lords, Bush would never have gotten in, they would have stopped it.

And yet you continue to lecture the world on Democracy.