Indiana law lets citizens shoot at police

I see nothing wrong with being allowed to use lethal force against a cop using illegal lethal force against me or my family.

Originally posted by OldCorp

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Vardoger
As far as the mistaken addresses go, the police are just going to have to be DAMN WELL SURE THEY ARE AT THE RIGHT DAMN HOUSE, before breaking in and shooting anything that moves.

It looks good on paper, more responsibility and accountability on the police side of things.

I see a down side where everyone is going to shoot at the police, saying "I didn't know they were after me!"

I see an upside where people say, after their acquittal, "I'm sorry shot them, but there was no reason for them to burst into my home like Gestapo either."

I just hope that, knowing they are no longer immune, LEOS take more care when they pick a house to raid in the future. I read a story yesterday where a woman and her 8-year-old child were terrorized for over an hour after ATF agents burst into their Colorado home looking for a woman that hadn't lived there for a YEAR. She would have been totally justified if she had defended her home.

I also saw a thread here about police handcuffing everyone at a stop light to try and catch a bank robber. Should those people have had the right to kill these cops? Mind you, I'm not saying what the cops did was right, but should they be killed for it?

reply to post by jiggerj


I think so.

If a random person (Not a cop) stopped your car and attempted to handcuff and detain you, I believe you should have the right to defend yourself against them.

Excellent Indiana!!!

Finally somebody who understands the purpose for the second amendment.

Seen as we don't have the gun culture here in Australia that is evident in America, I'd be more than happy of they just let us punch on with the boys in blue when wronged by them.

Sure they have all their sprays and weapons but a straight right sent down the barrel that hit the button of a copper and floored him would be more satisfying than shooting..maybe, never shot anyone.

What is with the lawmakers in Indiana? First they pass a law to allow LEO's to enter your home without a search warrant and now pass a law saying it's OK to shoot them???
Something doesn't smell right in Indianapolis.

This law is really nothing more than a reiteration of the second amendment: the right to bear arms, meaning under all situations, and the tradition that this right specifically includes tyranny from government, which an unlawful police officer certainly embodies that.

Small step towards sanity, the rest of the country is insanely jealous.

Originally posted by freakjive
I almost posted about this when I originally heard the news.

Indiana is where I live and is my home state. I must say that this is one of the things that Mitch Daniels got right. He has done a few great things for our state.

It's quite odd though, as I've always considered him part of the establishment.

S&F

Hoosier here, too!

I think Daniels has done many wonderful things for Indiana, albeit the roads, lol, but if it keeps us out of debt, so be it.

He's not part of the establishment, thus his refusing to be a 2012 presidential contender early on, IMO.

Unless there are skeletons in the closet I am not privvy to.

Related more to thread: Some officers came to our home late last year in the middle of night--we had only lived in the house a couple of months--and while not tearing down our doors, they were persistant at knocking at them until we got up. A couple of idiots they were--3 am and expecting a conversation about who the former home dweller, Joe Blow was. We showed our ID's and they were on their way, but they weren't the most intelligent of sorts. Why not conduct such business during the daytime, leave a letter, etc.?

Maybe Daniels realizes the weaknesses/incompetencies, etc. of some of these bored LEOs?

I'm in favor of the "right" for citizens, in hopes that the citizens are not as stupid as the police in my example cited above.

I always assumed you were allowed to kill in self defense despite what the bad guy was wearing. It's the whole reason for the 2nd amendment.

So if the police kick down your door your just gonna start shooting? I wonder who will win that firefight....

Originally posted by GoldenRuled
I always assumed you were allowed to kill in self defense despite what the bad guy was wearing. It's the whole reason for the 2nd amendment.

I believe the 2nd Amendment's intent was that the citizenry would have the ultimate power over its government. The premise was that if all wanted to, the combined might of their guns would be more than the government forces could even handle. Where the Constitution screws up is the lack of protection against federal concentration and control of obscenely powerful weapons that give it protection against even the most vicious uprisings. Face it, there is no overthrowing the government to stop insane taxes, outrageous inflation, military expenditures that could arguably be called thievery, and electronic voting systems. Not with today's weapons there isn't.

Welcome to "Screwed, Inc."

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by OldCorp

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Vardoger
As far as the mistaken addresses go, the police are just going to have to be DAMN WELL SURE THEY ARE AT THE RIGHT DAMN HOUSE, before breaking in and shooting anything that moves.

It looks good on paper, more responsibility and accountability on the police side of things.

I see a down side where everyone is going to shoot at the police, saying "I didn't know they were after me!"

I see an upside where people say, after their acquittal, "I'm sorry shot them, but there was no reason for them to burst into my home like Gestapo either."

I just hope that, knowing they are no longer immune, LEOS take more care when they pick a house to raid in the future. I read a story yesterday where a woman and her 8-year-old child were terrorized for over an hour after ATF agents burst into their Colorado home looking for a woman that hadn't lived there for a YEAR. She would have been totally justified if she had defended her home.

I also saw a thread here about police handcuffing everyone at a stop light to try and catch a bank robber. Should those people have had the right to kill these cops? Mind you, I'm not saying what the cops did was right, but should they be killed for it?

Actually, I was on the side of the police in that incident for a couple of reasons:

1. There was an imminent threat to public safety..
2. They were in "hot pursuit" of a dangerous felon and had credible information he was in one of those cars.

You can't compare apples and oranges here. A raid must be pre-planned. Part of that planning MUST include verifying who is in the home and the likelihood that they will meet resistance. As tragic as it would be, if police officers get killed raiding the wrong home, or raiding one without proof that a crime has been committed, then they have no one to blame but themselves.

I'm a law and order kind of guy. I'm fully aware that local LEOs are going to be our last line of defense from a tyrannical government, and I support their lawful actions; but when they break the law, even out of ignorance, then the consequences - legal and mortal - fall on their shoulders.

The practical aspect of this is the cops need to be more careful about what they are doing.

In a previous post there is a link to a story about the cops raiding the house of a federal judge where the caller had informed the judge and the cops at the same time as if to cause a firefight.

Violating a persons private home should be a very big deal. They should be careful, they should have a warrent, they should not do it lightly but only after thoughtful consideration.

If there is a danger to themselves they will be more careful.

I am on the side of the cops, but there are far too many stories in the press of them acting as a bull in a china shop and people pets and property being killed and destroyed. We deserve better.

I wouldn't think of it as using lethal force against a cop. If they violate the law they are criminals, If they pose an imminent threat I will act accordingly. It doesn't matter where you live. You have an unalienable right to self defense.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


They have "allowed" some of us our pop guns, while hoarding all the grenades, missiles, tanks, jets, submarines and bombs for themselves.

Reply to post by Nspekta

Doesn't matter..if you get a shot off, lead will rain down on you.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife. Therefore in this Court, at least, it is not a condition of immunity that one in that situation should pause to consider whether a reasonable man might not think it possible to fly with safety or to disable his assailant rather than to kill him

~Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Brown v. United States (1921)

The right to self defense has been a long held common law principle that has existed long before the United States was a twinkle in the Founders eyes, and long before the "New World" was a twinkle in explorer's eyes. There is no room for mistakes when using deadly force to execute a lawful warrant. There is no valid act of legislation that can criminalize a person who defended their life against foolish force.

So what happens when an individual is wrongly/excessively treated by police, opens fire, and the police fire back in retaliation? The police always think they are right, and will respond to deadly force with deadly force.

I don't see any police busting down a door, seeing their fellow office gunned down, and not putting a few holes in you.

Looks good at first glance, but it'll be rewritten after a few tragedies.

"If I pull over a car and I walk up to it and the guy shoots me, he's going to say, 'Well, he was trying to illegally enter my property,' "

"said Hubbard, 40, president of Jeffersonville Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 100. "Somebody is going get away with killing a cop because of this law."

as opposed to now, which is cops getting away with killing unarmed citizens.

the cops brought them on themselves. do your job, professionally, respect the public like you expect to be respected and detached from the suspect and everybody will be better off.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


thats all good for them, but one thing. you shoot at the first cop that enters your house there are going to be 5 or more behind them. so you shoot at one of them you will have 5 shooting back. so still not a good idea cus you will probably die and a dead person has no tails.

so a step forward, depends on what way you look at it.