Suicide and thread warnings.

And last one: What if this is actually the hardest game the universe has ever created for itself. The only actual way out is to finally decide you're done with it (whether through physical suicide or spiritual transformation... pick your own poison).

From the other side it's as mundane as pressing the power button and going for a drink in a video game like we have now. We "suicide" all the time, we just haven't developed the technology to allow you to "feel" what the video game character is feeling and temporarily believe you "are" them. But it's coming... and THEN we'll have some interesting philosophical questions to explore.

I don't feel it's quite that simple, but come on... there are many ways to look at this topic besides the one you were brought up and programmed to believe. Imagination is actually a very powerful tool for showing things in a different light which reveals missing parts of rules or concepts which might not be in your best interest. Much like you have to think like a scammer to be able to avoid scams. You have to be able to look at the surface and imagine how it might not be the whole story.

Kind of like making it really hard and dangerous for a kid to get a cookie from the cookie jar. "You want the treat... well you're gonna have to REALLY want it... how far are you willing to go for it?!"

Namaste.

I think it's a deep topic that lots of people struggle with every day.

Shortly for me, I'd repeat what an earlier poster said, that suicide should be open to anyone without dependents.
But, is one ever really free of dependents?
What about the dog and the kitty cat?
What about people that one doesn't even realize are dependents?
What if one could make a difference and be needed in future?

Perhaps if there's nothing after death it may not matter, or in another sense it matters even more, because it's our only chance.
But what if your ancestors who lived through wars and famines are waiting after death, and they ask you: "What have done to be proud of and make a legacy?"
I don't think I could face them and say I killed myself simply because I felt unhappy.
I'd like to at least say I tried in my way.

There are many ways to leave a good legacy.
Perhaps even writing here leaves a legacy, and in a century or two people will study these threads as the infancy of "cyber-literature".
We just don't know.

Originally posted by halfoldman
Shortly for me, I'd repeat what an earlier poster said, that suicide should be open to anyone without dependents.
But, is one ever really free of dependents?
What about the dog and the kitty cat?
What about people that one doesn't even realize are dependents?
What if one could make a difference and be needed in future?

What if the person could make arrangements for those things to be taken care of because everyone around them is supportive and understanding? Just like if they were moving out of the country and the dependents or places they could make a difference can't go with them? Or how we handle it when people die by accident now?

We *have* and do deal with these challenges all the time. We've just arbitrarily put suicide on a totally different platform. Kind of like the American bizarre approach to nakedness vs violence on TV and in movies. We have it totally flipped, we all know it deep down, yet we keep marching on as if it's "normal" for there to be panic over nudity, but no real concern about another murder scene shown on the news.

For the record I agree with showing the murder scene on the news, just not the panic over nudity though I would hope this would lead to a lot more nudity and a lot less murder.

Namaste.

Originally posted by paradox
...your reasoning is not rooted in logic.

Quote from "Deja Vu":
"Satan reasons like man, but God thinks of eternity"

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by g146541.
I am totally fine with mu Grandpa's death, how do you feel?
Was he wrong?

The REAL question is: what does GOD say about it?

That's not a question at all, it's a judgement. Who is your god to say what anyone does, apart from what YOU then consider?

It's an excuse at the ready. God says no, therefore I must say no. And all who defy are not god fearing.

That's a cop out and tired. Your god also hates homosexuality, hates people who work on sunday and will not allow sinners into heaven.

Your god... Your god is what is wrong with this world. An evil entwined in hypocrisy, only to be called upon when required and in times when you as a person have no answer. A judge, jury and executioner of immoral action as defined by you.

Your god killed his only son. Your god wants suffering, in order to know his love.

Bah humbug to your god. If satan could be talked about in terms of action, your god is indeed evil.

You ignore a persons mind, their belief and their own morals to inflict your own. God says so. So must it be.

When I die, I expect no god. If there is life after death, it is in essence only. And if I am wrong, then by god I deny your god. And I welcome the afterlife with open arms. To be free of physical impediment. No long tied to out dated religion. To be energy again to flow freely.

I pity this god of yours. He relies on us for existence. how sad is that..

Originally posted by g146541
I will also need a writing sample from god please...

reply to post by g146541


When people think that suicide is the easy way out, they have never been faced with such a dire situation.

It is far from easy. Often it is the absolute end result of a long time of struggle. Easy?

This is why I get angry at those who spout such ignorance. It is a far from easy decision.

If anything, it is the hardest thing someone has to ever contemplate. And knowing this, for it to be realised, is an absolute end.

Easy for people on a steady boat to tell people not to fall over board. So easy.. yet sometimes, life can be the most impossible thing to endure.

I don't advocate it. Not by any means. But I have been there and back. And I do not see it as weak. I find suffering to the point of nothingness unimportant.

And I know that we all die. I'd rather know my time and give my willingness to it, and have welcome thoughts of those who may be around me in this time, than die instantly, at the hand of circumstance.

We should all be able to choose our own time. And not be told we're weak or going to hell, because of it.

Who would rather die instantly, by accident or ill intent, and never be able to say good bye? They are the selfish ones, if you ask me.

It's not a race. There is no finish line. We may be lucky to have been given birth to, but we should be able to choose our end. To deny that, is absolute arrogance by those who do not care at all..

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by paradox
...your reasoning is not rooted in logic.

Quote from "Deja Vu":
"Satan reasons like man, but God thinks of eternity"

You are so close... it's sitting there staring you in the face.

God is Eternity/Infinity. This is why Satan, suicide, depression, "the fall", etc are all God's doing. It even says it right in your own book... and it's impossible for it to be any other way if you are going to truly follow that train of thought.

Think of eternity.... really think of it. Think of being eternity and infinity. Think of knowing everything past present future and parallel to our current reality. There is nothing to be surprised by, nothing to learn, nothing to really even experience because nothing can ever change.

What would eternity "do" with all of this?

It would choose to forget it is eternity and play at being human/satan. So now who is judging who? Who is hurting who? The reason we experience anything at all is because we've put a veil up between different portions of ourself to create "individuals" and then enjoy the experience of obscuring and hiding different portions of ourself from ourself so we can rediscover ourself from every vantage point possible.

Tao/Infinity/God/The Universe created all these things to be afraid of, for the same reason we create haunted houses and video games. The experience of overcoming it is where the real meat is. This is why it's about the "journey" not the destination... because the final destination is back where we started which will mean we'll just immediately go back on another journey again (ignoring the semantic issues of time from Eternity/Tao/Infinity/God's perspective).

Namaste

reply to post by ErgoTheConfusion


BANG ON!!
If God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omni all of those other words, I cannot do ANYTHING to change how God knows it will end.
Therefore, God had to have programmed all who have commited suicide to do it.
But the biblethumpers can never see this angle as they are blinded by its pages.
Star to you.

reply to post by g146541

Danke and thank you for this thread! It's a great subject that once a person breaks through the fear of going against their cultural programming when coming up with their perspectives... can really pull the veil away on almost everything else including the real nature of reality.

One thing to remember if what we both believe is true... God also "played" the bible thumpers (like a video game character) in such a way for them to not be able to see it yet... all so that we could experience debating the topic here!

God/Tao/Infinity/The Universe already knows the outcome but that's not as much fun as rediscovering it as a human, haha. Just like I know how WW2 ended, but it is still interesting/challenging to go "be a WW2 soldier" in a game and try to fight the battles again. As the technology gets better... we will have people going back to see how THEY would personally do if they really believed they were there on D-Day... and while playing they won't be able to tell they aren't really there.

From the perspective in the game, each death is AWFUL! From the perspective after coming back out of the simulation... it's no big deal and probably a really AWESOME! experience. We don't lament the billions of deaths we rack up in online shooters, because on this side we know it's all going to be ok even if we can still get emotionally invested in it. And it also explains why you must have the death, in order for the life to be meaningful. If you play a game with no threat of death or some form of "stalling out"... then there is rarely any long term satisfaction from the experience. But what you do when you truly believe "this is it"... that's meaningful even if it wasn't actually real. If you believe it is, then it still shows you who you really are.

It's the Hindu concept that the universe is an incredible drama it is telling itself and showing itself from an inconceivable number of perspectives.

Namaste!

reply to post by ErgoTheConfusion


I should like to have a beer with you someday if I ever got the chance.
It is amazing how free you become when you figure out just that one angle.
I literally am afraid of nothing, that is worth more than a million dollars!

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by paradox
...your reasoning is not rooted in logic.

Quote from "Deja Vu":
"Satan reasons like man, but God thinks of eternity"

I love that post. Especially if you mix in the where the quotes come from.

Deja Vu and Paradox...

It is why you cannot say the highest truths.
If they can be communicated it is through direct knowing in the Now.
Ergo the Confusion...

haha couldn't resist.

reply to post by mainidh

Originally posted by mainidh
Bah humbug to your god, your god is indeed evil. When I die, I expect no god...

Dr. George Rodonaia was an atheist in Russia who believed the same thing before the KGB killed him. Three days in a morgue freezer = EX "atheist".

"Dr. Rodonaia was killed by the KGB, pronounced dead, taken to the morgue for three days and returned to life during his own autopsy. Dr. Rodonaia was a psychiatric researcher who worked for the KGB and later became a dissident. He was a scientist trained in historical materialism and did not believe in God."

"George Rodonaia underwent one of the most extended cases of a near-death experience ever recorded. Pronounced dead immediately after he was hit by a car in 1976, he was left for three days in the morgue. He did not "return to life" until a doctor began to make an incision in his abdomen as part of an autopsy procedure. Prior to his NDE he worked as a neuropathologist. He was also an avowed atheist. LINK

George was a vocal Soviet dissident during the time when such a stance could get you killed. And that is exactly what happened - he was assassinated by the KGB. Because his case was highly political, an autopsy had to be performed. His corpse was stored in a freezer vault for three days until then. He revived on the autopsy table as he was being split open by the doctors, one of which was his own uncle. Of all the cases I have investigated in my 26 years of work in the field, his is the most dramatic, the longest, the most evidential, and the most soul-stirring. LINK

reply to post by Murgatroid


That is the thing, all of these ghost, scary, boogey man stories do not put fear into me.
If God is sooooooo powerful as all of the bible belt say he is, nothing can deviate his master plan.
Therefore if you suicide, it is Gods will...err or allahs will, pending on which fairy tale you believe.
If God did not want someone to suicide, he would have not invented it.
So simple and out in the open, yet holy book readers cannot see it.

o.p., I feel sorry for you. you are an empty vessel.

Originally posted by aaaiii
o.p., I feel sorry for you. you are an empty vessel.

Quite the contrary actually.
I have accomplished some great feats in my time and I still have fun.
I have 2 dogs a garden, and a wife, not necessarily in that order.And I even have cash in my pocket.
I would say I am light years ahead of many.
Plus I am not afraid of boogey men.

reply to post by Dustytoad

It is why you cannot say the highest truths.
If they can be communicated it is through direct knowing in the Now.
Ergo the Confusion...

haha couldn't resist.

You've made my day.

reply to post by g146541

Perhaps we'll run into each other on the other side of sleep tonight and cross the couple of thousand miles easily!

I do still feel the fear/anticipation of the unknown, but it's the same sort of "fear" you have when you're about to get naked for the first time with someone you've had a crush on for a long time.

Off to dream and looking forward to seeing where this thread progresses.
zzz!

Originally posted by g146541
If God did not want someone to suicide, he would have not invented it.

Eternity is a long time to be wrong...

reply to post by g146541

I was once like you, successful, rich. then I was touched by a tragedy that opened my eyes to the true nature of the world.

you still have something to learn, but it must be in your own time and will happen when you least expect it.