In U.S., 46% Hold Creationist View of Human Origins

Originally posted by Tadeusz
reply to post by Lionhearte

 

And just because macro-evolution is flawed, the only correct alternative is Christianity? How about Hinduism? The world is not so dichotomous.

I didn't propose that. Though, I do believe that, since the Bible correlates perfectly with, say the historical evidence of the Flood, it's got to be somewhat accurate.

We're looking at the same evidence, but coming to different conclusions - the reason is not based of logical thinking, but goes much deeper than that.

Originally posted by HumanCondition
Macro and Micro evolution are the same thing and the evidence is there, seeming you are such an expert I shouldn't have to show you.

You assume since one is right, the other must be true. They are not the same thing, and to think so shows how ignorant you are. Macro takes time. Lots, and lots of time - millions of years. It is assumed, because Micro-Evolution is true (I detest calling it that, but for others' sakes), that over millions of years then an ancient primate could have evolved into chimps, apes and Humans.

This is purely religious - it takes faith to believe that, since it has never been observed- and I envy the faith that you have in your gods of time and chance, and wish I had that same faith in my God of Abraham and of Isaac.

I don't think you know what you are talking about, go back to bible studies.

Translation- "You are a Christian and thus are retarded, stick to your fairytales and leave science to us smart people."

Why do you look for evidence when it comes to evolution but not to believe in fiction books?

I don't, I look for evidence and decide the truth for myself - if the Speed of Light has proven to not be a constant, then we really do not know how distant the QSOs are, and that is one major claim for evidence for the Big Bang - proven false, yet there are those who still cling to their dying religion of Evolution.

This thread will be a good example of 46% of that pool.

There are a lot of creationists here in my country (probable the same percent than americans) but because it is a third world country is kinda understable because of lack of access to education many many people had. But slowly we are getting better at that.

If someone beleives in god, why are you butt hurt.

Because those god believing people oppress and kill everyone else.

This Gallup poll was thoroughly jibber jabbered a few days ago, but it appears it has been deleted...
Wonder why?

Here is the old link:46% of US Believe God Created Humans Within the Last 10000 ...

Lets us carry on then. I don't want to think it was censored on ATS. Must have gotten ridiculous, as these type of posts always just turn into a hate-fest. Sad.

Originally posted by CB328
Because those god believing people oppress and kill everyone else.

Yet the Bible, God's word, clearly dictates not to murder someone. If these "god believing people" actually knew the truth, and that no one yet a perfect being has the authority to condemn and judge, then they wouldn't be doing this.

My God tells those who want to stone the adulterers, the homosexuals, the murderers, the slanderers, the drunkards, etc, that "he who is without sin may cast the first stone" - none of us have the right to judge or condemn, but God alone-

And what does God say, to the adulterer, whom they tried to stone?

John 8:10-11

10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" 11 "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

He is unwilling that any should perish.

Interesting Factoid, however this thread is practically flame bait. I don't get the the whole struggle of converting people to a certain religious belief. It fun to debate and ponder if you can get into a serious debate but you get people saying things like

46% of the US has a serious social mental illness.

And then the people of faith "whatever is getting berated" coming in all defensive and angry.

To the rest of you- Evolution is a theory and has NOT been observed, never, ever, ever. It has never been proven, and it is not science.

Debate me, I challenge you. Any claim, any question, any attack- I accept all.

Blah Blah, This doesn't effect much in the world.

And THIS is why we can't make any progress. Half the country celebrates ignorance. This is not a sustainable culture.

Originally posted by Mcupobob
I don't get the the whole struggle of converting people to a certain religious belief.

There is no struggle. I'm not out to convert anyone, people can believe whatever the hell they want to believe - I am against lies, however, and will not tolerate people spreading lies deliberately.

It fun to debate and ponder if you can get into a serious debate..

And then the people of faith "whatever is getting berated" coming in all defensive and angry.

I agree, I want to get into a serious debate - I may come off as defensive and angry, but I'm trying to incite people to question and deny ignorance by keeping an open-mind. I'm directly challenging all who believe in the Religion of Evolution, and would gladly debate them, openly.

Blah Blah, This doesn't effect much in the world.

That's where you're wrong. If Creation is true, then that mean there is a Creator- a God. If there is a God, then there are rules to this life. How do we find out who that God is? We use the written text - if the evidence agreed with Hinduism, then the Hindu gods are real - if it agreed with Christians, then the Christian God is real.

What it boils down to is this -

If there is a God, mankind is in trouble - we need to find out who He is and what He wants, because He's in control.

If there ISN'T a God, mankind is in trouble - we're specs of dust on a rock, hurtling through space at 68,000 miles an hour, and no one is in control.

reply to post by Mcupobob


Wow, someone I can actually agree with concerning this subject. I don't understand the endless bickering either.

Originally posted by Grumble
And THIS is why we can't make any progress. Half the country celebrates ignorance. This is not a sustainable culture.

I agree, once more - it's a shame that 54% of the country still doesn't leave behind their closed minded, ridiculous fairytale ideologies and search for the truth by denying ignorance.

Truly a shame.

It does little good to debate someone who is so fiercely loyal to an unsubstantiated line of reasoning that no amount of empirical evidence could ever sway him from his holy conviction.

With such a person reasoning is not sound, only faith. Faith unto death. Science is foolish for its' inclination to support that which seems most likely, rather than that which was preached by a man unrecorded outside of a book written on his behalf long after his death, then modified and revised throughout history to meet the immediate needs of the time, and to whom the cry of faith has been utterred in rage and hate at the behest of the murder of millions.

Such a person will very often vehemently profess his right to deny others theirs for his own religions sake. Many such people will intentionally produce false and shallow pseudo-science (actually pseudo-science is not the ideal word to use, because there is real validity in much pseudo-science; it is a word that has been misused on religious zealots' imitation science) which they hope to use to sucker others into their faith, reminiscent of a dishonest used car salesman trying to unload a clunker upon an unsuspecting victim.

Such a person is not unlikely to be of low mental capacity for abstract thought or else attempting to cling to a semblance of sanity by embracing religion. Many would, if pushed, kill others to defend their religions' propriety. Examples of religious zealots' targets include abortion clinics, infidels, brain washing of children, vehement professed hatred of homosexuals among others ( depending on which fundamentalist sect this might include democrats, Jews, Muslims, athiests, Wiccans, various races, unmarried women with children, educated women, any person educated in disciplines outside of the bible/ koran, etc, any person who seeks the aid of modern medicine, any person who does not agree to hate or kill any or all of the aforementioned examples.

It is good that science and religion have gone their separate ways. Now, it is not suicidal heresy to claim that the preponderance of evidence suggests that the world is very nearly round, that the Earth orbits the sun, that witches cannot fly to their sabbats where they kiss the devils anus, and that perhaps the universe is governed by natural physical laws rather than supernatural whims. A person can expect today to not have their eyes burned out for suggesting that the Earth is infact not 6,000 years old. In this modern world, secular and partly free from the punishments concocted by a religion professing the virtue of not judging others, I can even suggest that for this species to move on from its' base and carnal shame it must not allow decisions to be made with the concerns of or deferment to those who puke their superstitions upon empiricism, but must always be made with the application of the best science and data.

reply to post by Lionhearte


Well if there is a god or gods, maybe it(its) has no vested interest in our lives or doesn't want anything form us. Bringing us right back to the specs on a rock flying through space. However if the conclusion comes to that then that means were in control of our on destiny.

If the god or gods does want us to appease it(them) . As want it does want and does that makes us slaves or give us more meaning to our lives.

And don't worry about coming off defensive or angry, people have been attacking Christianity lately.

Originally posted by Lionhearte





What it boils down to is this -

If there is a God, mankind is in trouble - we need to find out who He is and what He wants, because He's in control.

If there ISN'T a God, mankind is in trouble - we're specs of dust on a rock, hurtling through space at 68,000 miles an hour, and no one is in control.

Anthropomorphizing GOD make no sense. It's just a pathetic grasp for meaning from a species to primitive to conceptualize the cosmic reality. Seeking a comfort zone amid the chaos and brutality of the human condition; is what it boils down to imo.

Originally posted by Lionhearte, ridiculous fairytale ideologies

And this is the type of inflammatory language that keeps any discussion of value from happening. I see this consistently from both sides. Let's have at least a little respect for one another. Having an open mind generally means that you can accept the possibility of either with open arms even if you believe one way or the other.

reply to post by Lionhearte


Or: There is a maker, but NONE of our Holy books actually describe it.

Or: There is a maker, and while many of our Holy books come close, most fall short the true mission of love, brotherhood and peace, because they claim unearned infallibility.

Or: There is no maker, but the universe is vast, full of life and potential, and our 68,000 mile-an-hour roller-coaster is a glorious opportunity to interact with reality in deeper and more meaningful ways than by-rote regurgitation of divisive desert god dogma.

Or: There is no maker, and the mystery of how we can "grow" ourselves beyond our "nature" and "limitations" until WE create one worthy of our millennial struggle to overcome our primitive beginning and ascend upward towards a future which is a tapestry of our various colors, faiths and creeds is realized in the actual universe we live in.

Or: There is a maker, and it -- being infinite -- is struggling to reach and understand us, as much as we -- the finite -- struggle to reach and understand it.

And so on, because duality is so 2000 years ago, and is getting us nowhere.

Originally posted by Erectus
It does little good to debate someone who is so fiercely loyal to an unsubstantiated line of reasoning that no amount of empirical evidence could ever sway him from his holy conviction.

With such a person reasoning is not sound, only faith. Faith unto death. Science is foolish for its' inclination to support that which seems most likely

Very well spoken, this part is exactly the kind of behavior of those following the Religion of Evolution! I couldn't have put it better myself- especially these parts:

It does little good to debate someone who is so fiercely loyal to an unsubstantiated line of reasoning that no amount of empirical evidence could ever sway him from his holy conviction.

It's interesting that the dying religion of evolution has been bombarded with evidence that completely contradicts and opposes it's theories and utterly obliterates it, yet there are still people who hold on to it! Amazing!

With such a person reasoning is not sound, only faith. Faith unto death.

I agree.. it's ridiculous! They put so much faith that "Time" and "Chance" had EVERYTHING to do with this Universe, and that we are the product of the atom - we are descendents of rocks! Absurd, really. That's a lot of faith, though.

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
reply to post by Lionhearte

 

Or: There is a maker, but NONE of our Holy books actually describe it.

This is plausible, yet there is evidence to contradict it - since there does exist historical evidence for a flood, the Biblical account is indeed true. If it is indeed true, the one who saved Noah through the Ark is the true God, and that is very significant in my opinion.

Or: There is a maker, and while many of our Holy books come close, most fall short the true mission of love, brotherhood and peace, because they claim unearned infallibility.

It's true that there isn't a religion in the world that doesn't agree that something is wrong with us..

..but something IS wrong with us, that's undeniable. This question, then, seems to question the "original sin" doctrine of the Bible. Let it be known that we are not accountable because of Adam's sin, but because of our own. We simply received the knowledge of good and evil and have freedom to choose between either. All of us chose poorly.

Or: There is no maker, but the universe is vast, full of life and potential, and our 68,000 mile-an-hour roller-coaster is a glorious opportunity to interact with reality in deeper and more meaningful ways than by-rote regurgitation of divisive desert god dogma.

This is more of a statement of opinion.

Or: There is no maker, and the mystery of how we can "grow" ourselves beyond our "nature" and "limitations" until WE create one worthy of our millennial struggle to overcome our primitive beginning and ascend upward towards a future which is a tapestry of our various colors, faiths and creeds is realized in the actual universe we live in.

Humanism. You know, there are those who had those same beliefs, that we ourselves can be "gods", in a sense - that there are those "less" capable of being close to supremacy - people like Hitler, for example.

Or: There is a maker, and it -- being infinite -- is struggling to reach and understand us, as much as we -- the finite -- struggle to reach and understand it.

An infinite maker cannot struggle, that's a fallacy.

And so on, because duality is so 2000 years ago, and is getting us nowhere.

It's kept us alive for 2000 years.

What do evolutionists want from creationists? To renounce and conform?

What do creationists want from evolutionists? To renounce and obey?

Are we, after all the progress (if that is how you see it) humanity has achieved, asking for a global standard of views, beliefs, and opinions?

A standard of policy? A standard of conformity?

To creationists: God said to spread his word. Trying to force the word to extreme points in pursuit of acceptance is ABSOLUTELY counterproductive to the whole message. You know by reading and understanding the scripture that many shall be cast into the pit. That the Elect will be few.

To evolutionists: By way of facts, mathematical even, there is no way you can expect all entities to follow the reasoning of your scientific findings, fact or theory. Use the formula of science to approach this, you know the findings will support the data.

So, if nobody can accept the differences in beliefs, wants an across the board standard, I can only suggest one solution...

A New World Order.

As it goes, with the current global unity trend, perhaps we wont have to worry to much longer?
Agree?

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s

Or: There is a maker, and it -- being infinite -- is struggling to reach and understand us, as much as we -- the finite -- struggle to reach and understand it.

And so on, because duality is so 2000 years ago, and is getting us nowhere.

Love the hypotheticals. To me the above quote is probably likely if there is indeed a maker.

I would, however like to add my own.

Or: There is a maker, but we are to him what the molecules that comprise our cells are to us.

Originally posted by Lionhearte

Originally posted by CB328
Because those god believing people oppress and kill everyone else.

Yet the Bible, God's word, clearly dictates not to murder someone. If these "god believing people" actually knew the truth, and that no one yet a perfect being has the authority to condemn and judge, then they wouldn't be doing this.

My God tells those who want to stone the adulterers, the homosexuals, the murderers, the slanderers, the drunkards, etc, that "he who is without sin may cast the first stone" - none of us have the right to judge or condemn, but God alone-

And what does God say, to the adulterer, whom they tried to stone?

John 8:10-11

10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" 11 "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

He is unwilling that any should perish.

You must be speaking of the new testament when you say that the bible is all roses and doves. The old testament is a thousand page account of Gods' orders to slaughter men, women, and children by the tens of thousands at a time because they weren't Moses' grandchildren. What changed in those few centuries between Malachi and Matthew?