Higgs boson and dark matter?

Theoretically speaking if the higgs boson is the elusive particle that the CERN collider is tring to discover could it be possible that dark matter and Higgs boson are one in the same and what are they made of? All thoughts and replays are welcome.

reply to post by swampcricket

The Higgs boson and dark matter are both parts of a black hole. They form an extreme gravity that attracts money. Trying to find the "God" particle is as financially lucrative as being a TV evangelist.

They are related. They are constructs of a paradigm to fill gaps in models. They can be said to consist of the same fabric, since they only exist on paper.

Originally posted by swampcricket
Theoretically speaking if the higgs boson is the elusive particle that the CERN collider is tring to discover could it be possible that dark matter and Higgs boson are one in the same and what are they made of? All thoughts and replays are welcome.

Yes,,but both are theories,, so anything is possible including both not existing...

reply to post by swampcricket


It is that they're finding a whole bunch of new particles...they're just looking for one in particular. They're playing God, and a whole treasure trove of mysteries is waiting to be unlocked with the push of a button.

Originally posted by swampcricket
Theoretically speaking if the higgs boson is the elusive particle that the CERN collider is tring to discover could it be possible that dark matter and Higgs boson are one in the same and what are they made of? All thoughts and replays are welcome.

No, the Higgs boson is not the same as dark matter. The Higgs boson/Higgs field is the particle that theoretically is responsible for matter having mass. Dark matter is matter that seems to interact with the universe only through gravity (not light/EM or strong or weak forces). The only things they have in common are 1) they are inferred phenomena that we only know from the suspicious gaping holes in our theories to explain our observations and 2) they are both concepts from physics.

Yes, they are both theories, but that is not the same as saying "Oh, they're just mathematical noodling. Not _real_.". They are theories to describe the behavior of real things. It's like we have a jigsaw puzzle with a piece missing, but surrounded: we know the shape of the piece, even if we don't know exactly the picture printed on it.

The models we have for the two ideas are the simplest, most straightforward explanations of some pretty weird observations. If either turns out to be completely wrong (ie, it's actually 4 puzzle pieces of abnormally small size and shape), then another explanation needs to be found for our observations.

As to the idea that we're "playing God".... Yeesh. Ok, look, even from the perspective of christian mythology, there was one thing that Jehova told Adam to do before he fell: to name and know all the characteristics of all the animals. The ONE THING that your god told us to do was STUDY HIS CREATION!

You may be fine with declaring large sections of creation "Off-Limits by Reason of Holy Mystery", but I will take wonder and joy over mystery any day.

I know it's a redundant question but if we do verify the Higgs boson and dark matter then that opens a whole new question "what are they made of"?

Originally posted by Stunspot

Originally posted by swampcricket
Theoretically speaking if the higgs boson is the elusive particle that the CERN collider is tring to discover could it be possible that dark matter and Higgs boson are one in the same and what are they made of? All thoughts and replays are welcome.

they are inferred phenomena that we only know from the suspicious gaping holes in our theories to explain our observations and 2) they are both concepts from physics.


The models we have for the two ideas are the simplest, most straightforward explanations of some pretty weird observations. If either turns out to be completely wrong (ie, it's actually 4 puzzle pieces of abnormally small size and shape), then another explanation needs to be found for our observations.

The contrived models for these two HYPOTHESES are the least simple, least straightforward, and most absurdly complicated "explanations" for those gaping holes.

Complete nonsense. There is a much simpler explanation. A group of thousands of PhDs, engineers, and physicists have come up with a far better and more complete theory, that easily fills those GAPING HOLES with explanations that are, and have been, replicated in lab experiments, repeatedly. The boson and dark matter have never been observed in any way, after forty years and untold BILLIONS of dollars wasted on this nonsense.

“We find that whole communities suddenly fix their minds upon one object, and go mad in its pursuit; that millions of people become simultaneously impressed with one new delusion, and run after it, till their attention is caught by some new folly more captivating than the first. … Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.” -– Charles Mackay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds, 1852

The astronomer Fred Hoyle once wrote of the herd mentality in his profession:

“The trouble with conformity is that the process has strong positive feedback. The baaing starts up at a volume low enough to permit stronger-minded animals to think for themselves without too much trouble. Progressively, however, we break down one-by-one, losing all power of sensible judgement, to the point where we can do nothing but add our own baaing to the uproar, which eventually rises to such monumental proportions that nothing remains for the flock except the butcher’s shop.”

The Madness of Black Holes

Originally posted by GiodanoBruno

Originally posted by swampcricket
Theoretically speaking if the higgs boson is the elusive particle that the CERN collider is tring to discover could it be possible that dark matter and Higgs boson are one in the same and what are they made of? All thoughts and replays are welcome.

Yes,,but both are theories,, so anything is possible including both not existing...

Well, we know "dark matter" is there, we can observe its effects through gravitational lensing of very distant galaxies and quasars (one of my good friends is an astrophysicist who works on this problem specifically, actually). The amount of matter we can actually see can't account for the amount of lensing that is happening, so something else has to be there, and that's dark matter. Also, it's the only way to account for the structures and movements we see in spiral galaxies, but again we can't see it but it has to be there. What is theoretical is what it's actually made of, and there's more than one theory about that.

reply to post by CaptChaos


Do tell, what is your "simple" theory and what lab experiments prove it?

reply to post by OccamsRazor04



Man, don't even engage.

If you try to teach a pig to whistle, all you do is waste your time and annoy the pig.

Originally posted by LifeInDeath

Originally posted by GiodanoBruno

Originally posted by swampcricket
Theoretically speaking if the higgs boson is the elusive particle that the CERN collider is tring to discover could it be possible that dark matter and Higgs boson are one in the same and what are they made of? All thoughts and replays are welcome.

Yes,,but both are theories,, so anything is possible including both not existing...

Well, we know "dark matter" is there, we can observe its effects through gravitational lensing of very distant galaxies and quasars (one of my good friends is an astrophysicist who works on this problem specifically, actually). The amount of matter we can actually see can't account for the amount of lensing that is happening, so something else has to be there, and that's dark matter. Also, it's the only way to account for the structures and movements we see in spiral galaxies, but again we can't see it but it has to be there. What is theoretical is what it's actually made of, and there's more than one theory about that.

edit on 6/4/2012 by LifeInDeath because: (no reason given)

We don't know... We hope and think, we speculate.. Big difference. Dark matter is a theory ,just like black holes. Until we physically analyze with precision we won't know exactly if dark matter is a mass that extends into another dimension. The galaxies as we know them, are just 4 dimensional aspect that we can see . They are the tip of the icebergs.

No human being will EVER prove the existence of Black Holes or Magnetars or Quasars, Big Bang or the elusive Higgs. Because we evolve too quickly, we adapt too quickly. If we survive the next million years, we won't BE Human Beings.

Basically we are constantly catching up. There is NOTHING within our field of view from this Solar System that actually exists in real time. All the stars and "planets" (that we think we've found), and all the "black holes" and "quasars" and "neutron stars" and "magnetars" and "gamma bursters" all that junk are just mathematical interpretations of imaginations, ancient echoes that are thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions and billions of years old...

Think about that.

We're studying ancient cosmological history. We're not even studying the present. We have NO IDEA what the Universe is REALLY like.

I mean, it's like forming theories about the PRESENT based on 90-year-old silent movies. Do you realize that HALF or more of the Universe may not even be out there in real time? We just don't know.

Until we go out there and SAMPLE other worlds, SAMPLE the winds of other stars, do an actual fly-by on a neutron star or a black hole, we have NO IDEA of the true nature of those cosmological bodies like "dark matter".

Our theories, everything we THINK we know about the Universe, is based on ANCIENT and obsolete data.

Yet Science, which is based on MOUNTAINS of theory, is as much a religion as anything they attempt (and fail) to debunk.

reply to post by swampcricket


Well, I would say they are made of money because of how much money the research eats up

Nobody has really answered one of my question........ If dark matter and the Higgs exist what are they made out of????

Originally posted by swampcricket
Nobody has really answered one of my question........ If dark matter and the Higgs exist what are they made out of????

Dude,,,, no one knows. That's why no one has given you a clear answer. Dark matter and the Higgs are ideas from man. Until we have the adequate know how(which will never happen) we will not be able to prove any of the many theories we con cock on a daily basis.

If that doesn't answer your problem, I don't know what will.

Originally posted by swampcricket
Nobody has really answered one of my question........ If dark matter and the Higgs exist what are they made out of????

OK, first off, there is no call whatsoever to EVER use four question marks. You may think it only communicates emphasis but, in reality, all it does it make you look like a moron; as if you had typed "y r u doung thut?!?".

Second, your question is, ultimately, malformed. Why aren't you also asking "What are quarks _made of_?" or "What are photons _made of_?"?

We don't know much about dark matter (hence the name "dark"). We have a bunch of theories that _could_ explain it, but we have no evidence beyond observing its effects upon other matter and energy, and that only gravitational effects.

The higgs, if our theories are correct is made of the same stuff as the rest of the elementary particles: knotted spacetime fused with information. If that answer isn't satisfactory to you, well then, congratulations, you've reached the same emotional state as a physicist in their first year of training. But that does, indeed, seem to be the best we can describe the situation at the moment.

Which is all a long-winded way of saying "They aren't "made" of anything -- they are what OTHER things are made of.

Originally posted by Stunspot

Originally posted by swampcricket
Nobody has really answered one of my question........ If dark matter and the Higgs exist what are they made out of????

OK, first off, there is no call whatsoever to EVER use four question marks. You may think it only communicates emphasis but, in reality, all it does it make you look like a moron; as if you had typed "y r u doung thut?!?".

Second, your question is, ultimately, malformed. Why aren't you also asking "What are quarks _made of_?" or "What are photons _made of_?"?

We don't know much about dark matter (hence the name "dark"). We have a bunch of theories that _could_ explain it, but we have no evidence beyond observing its effects upon other matter and energy, and that only gravitational effects.

The higgs, if our theories are correct is made of the same stuff as the rest of the elementary particles: knotted spacetime fused with information. If that answer isn't satisfactory to you, well then, congratulations, you've reached the same emotional state as a physicist in their first year of training. But that does, indeed, seem to be the best we can describe the situation at the moment.

Which is all a long-winded way of saying "They aren't "made" of anything -- they are what OTHER things are made of.

You are the moron????? If you look at what you posted it still didn't answer my question I didn't ask what a quark was made out of nor did I ask what a photon was made out of.mabye you should learn to read the question before you post a reply idiot.