Help with Daihatsu Terios brakes

Recently, I purchased a 1997 Daihatsu Terios SX 4x4. The aim of this car is to be towed behind my bus when I travel, as an extra vehicle. I got the car cheap, and it came with the usual symptoms of a 15 or so year old car. Most of the work has been fixed by myself, but there is one last problem I cannot seem to fix, and even has the local mechanics scratching their heads as to what it is. Figuring someone here may have had a similar problem, I thought I'd put it out there to see if anyone could shed some light for me.

One of the first things I checked was the brakes, and found the front to be completely worn down to the metal. Changed them, no problem. Then to the back brakes, which are drums. Now they weren't like new, however, they would have passed muster as far as wear goes. Just for the sake of it, I changed them over with brand new pads anyway.

This is where the problems began. After a few drives, it sounds like the back brake is grinding metal on something, which is causing a vibration through the back of the car. At first I thought it may have been improperly fitted, so I re-did them, to no avail. Now this grinding can be felt through the car as you brake, but only happens when you continually hold the brake down to slow. If you pump the brakes slowly, it doesn't happen, and only seems to happen when the car is warmed. In the first five minutes or so as the car warms up, it doesn't happen. It is kind of like a vibration along with a grinding noise. I have taken the brake pads out three times, and had a local mechanic look at them in case I didn't fit them properly, but they are fairly universal, and they can only really be fitted one way to be correct.

About the only thing that was suggested was it may be a problem with the ABS (Anti-lock braking system), but I have had little experience with ABS systems, and wouldn't know where to begin for looking for something related, even if the car has an ABS system. Unfortunately, information on these cars is fairly scarce, even on the web, so for the time being, I'm a little stumped.

Any help here would be greatly appreciated

OK, before I start. I don't profess to have all the answers but I'll try...
Was the problem there before you changed the rear shoes??
If so I would suggest an ABS issue or drivetrain issue. ie, bent rear axle or bad bearing, even warped drums...???
To check if its an ABS issue, find a quiet road with nobody around and pull out your ABS fuse then drive and brake hard... Does the problem still exist?? If it does then its not the ABS..

If the problem was NOT there before changing the brake shoes then maybe the wrong shoes were supplied???
It has been known to happen...
Hope to hear about this soon because I'm curious..

Originally posted by Wewillrise77
OK, before I start. I don't profess to have all the answers but I'll try...
Was the problem there before you changed the rear shoes??
If so I would suggest an ABS issue or drivetrain issue. ie, bent rear axle or bad bearing, even warped drums...???
To check if its an ABS issue, find a quiet road with nobody around and pull out your ABS fuse then drive and brake hard... Does the problem still exist??

If the problem was NOT there before changing the brake shoes then maybe the wrong shoes were supplied???
It has been known to happen...
Hope to hear about this soon because I'm curious..

Didn't notice it happening before the change out, and yes I did double check the pads were the right ones, I have discovered with Japanese cars it's a bit hit-and-miss for parts. It only happens on braking, and as soon as you take your foot off the brakes, it stops. Problem is I've only had the car a couple of months, and checked the drums for warping. About the only thing I struggled with is the pad itself sits in like a little metal bracket, but the second time around I made sure it was seated properly, thinking it was the problem.

I have never had a car with ABS before, and I will check the fuses to see if that could be the problem. It just seems odd that it only seems to grind once the car has warmed up though. But considering I originally plugged the mechanical 4wd switch in backwards when putting the engine back in, it's worth a look.

Thanks for your help

reply to post by 74Templar


Have you inspected the inside of the brake drum for signs of wear/gouging?

I ask this, as a slightly different shoe may fit but not function correctly.

If you can hear grinding sounds you will most likely find marks in the assembly somewhere, which will indicate the root of your problem.

reply to post by Timely


Checked and fixed all that. There was little to no wear on the inside of the drums. The fronts were the worst, needing both discs and calipers fixed/replaced. That was the first thing I actually thought, was that the housing was damaged, or re-seated incorrectly.

Did you "braked" your brakes? This means, depending on the pad, that you should break really lightfooded for at least 500km. Otherwise they cannot burn in properly and begin to squeek.

A other advise would be to check your braking fluids. If you have to pump several times, they might be leaking!

reply to post by 74Templar


The next step I would take would be to back off the adjusters, so that the shoes are nowhere near touching the drums ( best done at operating temp. so as to allow for heat expansion ).

If the problem is still evident, you could be looking at an axle or maybe diff issue. ( bloody cars! lol.)

Ed: flagged this for you in the hope of more minds on the job.

reply to post by verschickter


Do you mean did I bed them? Yes, although I only did it about a month ago, it shouldn't be grinding the way it is. I mean, you can feel it right through the car. I have had the drums off three times, and checked everything, the only thing I haven't done is replace the drums altogether. Despite this, the pads are only a month old, and were installed brand new.

reply to post by Timely


I'm defientely thinking brakes, as if it were a diff issue, it would be there all the time. The only time it grinds is when you brake, after a few seconds. If you take your foot off and pump the brake gently, it stops, same as if it's doing it, if you take your foot off, it stops altogether.

I'm hoping it's a fuse, I have done pretty much everything to the brakes I can, and it's defientely coming from the back of the car.

I'm waiting for it to stop raining so I can check the fuses out, I'm thinking the ABS, but thought it was like some small computer system, similar to a sensor. As I've never worked on ABS cars before, I was hoping someone would know what to look for.

www.2carpros.com...

I was also thinking along these lines. Can't see how a fuse could be the culprit.( you should still have normal brakes even if abs is down, you did not mention any abs warning lamp so I don't think this is the prob.)

My test is to take the ABS fuse out so as to rule an ABS issue out of the equation...
ie, If it still makes the noise with the fuse out then it's not the ABS...

Other than the above, I'm not sure what else it could be, try the fuse and see if that helps.. Could help narrow things down a bit.

reply to post by Wewillrise77


I'm not even sure the car has ABS, but I will check it tomorrow. As I said I've done almost everything as far as brakes go, just not sure what else it could be.

Tomorrow, when it is light and hopefully has stopped raining, I will check the fuseboard and see if there is an ABS fuse. That was the suggestion from a mechanic friend too. I have never seen a light come on to indicate ABS or anything, but as I said, I had the engine out when I first got the car. Maybe it's just a switch or wire I hadn't put back in properly, or something small like that.

When I put the engine back in, I reversed the vacuum switches for the diff lock, so it was in 4wd mode when it wasn't. I was thinking it may have been something like this, something I haven't done properly that is causing it.

reply to post by Timely


Thanks for the link I haven't done that yet to be honest, it very well could be the problem.

When I put the engine back in, I reversed the vacuum switches for the diff lock, so it was in 4wd mode when it wasn't. I was thinking it may have been something like this, something I haven't done properly that is causing it.

I'm going to ga ahead and assume that you used a micrometer to check the run out on the drums? How about flat spots on the tyres or maybe a wheel bearing issue. Bent axle is possible as is a bent axle housing or the drum not seating correctly. Did you sand the rust off the hub?

reply to post by hudsonhawk69


So far, all I've done is replace the old pads with new. I did clean the inside of the drum when putting the new pads in, also did this a second time to make sure it was clean and not dirty inside, but it was more of just a clean up than an actual proper rebuild.

Looks like I may have to pull the brakes apart again....

Some cars you also seat the brakes by going in reverse lightly with the parking brake set. Dunno if it's the case with this one, but it should say it if you've got the owner's manual.

Originally posted by 74Templar
reply to post by hudsonhawk69

 

So far, all I've done is replace the old pads with new. I did clean the inside of the drum when putting the new pads in, also did this a second time to make sure it was clean and not dirty inside, but it was more of just a clean up than an actual proper rebuild.

Looks like I may have to pull the brakes apart again....

UH OH, Please tell me you didn't use CRC, WD40 or something similar for cleaning the drums.....
If you did, then use brake cleaner to clean it off, clean again with brake cleaner then re-assemble.
The above lubricants cause grabbing when warm and in some instances can cause a brake to lock up at speed.....
I've seen the aftermath of this being done and it was not pretty!!!

reply to post by Wewillrise77


No no, I know that one is a no-no...

I checked the fuses this morning, and there is no ABS fuse, so it must be the brakes, or some problem with the back end of the car (rear axle, diff, etc.).

Cleaning it, I mean I sanded out the inside just to remove excess rust and damage. There was no real scoring or damage to the inside of the drum, but it didn't start until after a month or so after changing them.

Hopefully, if the rain holds off, I will pull the drums apart today or tomorrow, and see if there is new damage inside the drum or to the pads.

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