Were you in the "Gifted Program" ?

Originally posted by Roundtree
Also, how many of us ended up here?

My experience in the gifted program might be a little different than others, for at least the first two years. In Tempe, Arizona it was called the P.A.C.E. program. But only 3rd graders were allowed in it. I was in the 1st grade. They wanted to bump me up two grade levels from 1st grade to 3rd grade and then put me in P.A.C.E., but my mom wouldn't let them. So they created a program only for me in the 1st grade. I was the only student in the program. Got my own short bus once a week. My own gifted program teacher with no other students in the class. A personal gifted teacher, personal gifted program, my own school bus. Basically, private gifted instruction paid for by the public school system--taxpayers.

In that program, they taught me foreign languages in the first grade. All kind of mind exercises. Math. Oh and social skills. They were afraid that my mother's behaviors would rub off on me, so they gave me all kinds of social skills on how to make friends.

In the 3rd grade, we moved to Mesa, Arizona. There the program was called E.L.P., Extended Learning Program. And in Mesa, there were other kids in the program. The 3rd grade teacher was big on memorization and speed. Memorizing the periodic chart of elements, names of royalty, names of species. And in that one, I learned an additional foreign language-- she taught us all Latin. I'm actually grateful for that teacher because she taught us all speed-reading in the 3rd grade. Great skill to have for life.

The 4th-6th grade gifted teacher (still E.L.P) was a different lady. She had very well structured classes in all areas. We learned computer programming, archeology (including proper digs in the field), oceanography (yes, living in the desert we learned oceanography), biology (a lot of disections of different animals), anatomy, chemistry, zoology, inventions (she'd have us make our own inventions and they had to work), debates (drawing topics out of a hat and formal debates on a podium), plus constant brain exercises.

7-9th, they didn't have a separate program. Just "accelerated" classes and "advanced" (AP). You didn't have to have a high IQ to be in an accelerated class, just as long as you could keep up the pace. It was at a faster speed of learning. The "advanced" (AP) classes were for those with the higher IQs. I just remember that I was taking high school math in 7th grade and college math by 10th grade.

I was bored in the regular high school classes and college classes. They didn't challenge me. Lots of tardies. I did end up graduating high school in 3 years instead of 4 though. In fact, I was kind of upset by college because I felt that they were making me pay money for classes (to get a required credit for a degree) for things I'd learned in elementary school in the gifted program. So by college, I'd show up for the first week, get the syllabus (schedule), ditch the course and show up only for the tests. I still can't believe they make people pay to get required credits in college for stuff they learned in elementary school.

But when I'd ditch those college classes or when I'd get upset that they weren't challenging me, I'd challenge myself instead. I'd give myself some project, something to answer. And I'd go spend my time in the library while ditching the classes that bored me.

Isn't that really why so many of us in gifted programs are on ATS? We still need that mental challenge that we don't really get in our daily lives.

Yeah I did the GT thing, but it was pretty much worthless. Here is the break-down.

Birth: -Grandfather is a psychologist prof. at many universities specializing in behavioral development. He has published materials regarding what (environmental inputs,) cause (early,) development in split personality and/or schizophrenia in youth. His published materials also deal somewhat with early development factors/identifiers with a high IQ.
-Grandmother is Canadian emig. who left sometime in the late 60's early 70's. She had gov. connections and ran a daycare; which was suddenly shut down. They left the country without telling any of their family. She died sometime later due to brain hemorrhaging which the doctors felt was related to drugs, but the investigation was stopped before toxicologist could figure out what happened. I remember there being blood all over the place. Trails of it through the house. There are signs of struggle and the locks needed to be replaced. She had a habit of replacing the locks every month, I never understood why. She ran a care-home for schizophrenic/mentally disturbed patients; no-one in, no-one out. Education: Medicine.

-Mother is a Sociologist who deals with (mental,) development of youth. That means she manipulated them to produce "favorable personalities" and "traits."

-Father is a sociologist.

1st Grade: IQ test, symbolic logic, and spacial reasoning. I remember being bullied constantly for being smart... then biting/beating the # out of a bully when I snapped. My principal and teacher conference with my family and I'm taken to a doctor, some type of psychologist. I am taken into a a soundproof and mirrored room, given headphones, and asked a series of (redundant, stupid, or unanswerable) questions.

2nd Grade: N/A, No memory. Home-schooled.

3rd Grade: taken to 3 different private schools that place heavy emphasis on ethical development and math. Main course of interest: Philosophical debate (taught by headmaster,) pre-algebra. We are expected to solve 60 algebraic questions in 60 seconds. When that goal is achieved: 60 algebraic questions in 30 seconds. When that goal is achieved 100 in less than a minute, etc.

4th Grade: Algebra. PE with former USMC officer. We are taught leadership, group trust exercises, the nature of morale, etc.

5th Grade: Geometry. IQ test.

6th Grade: Advanced reading/writing/debate. Out of a class size of several hundred, there are only 5 of us in the advanced courses.

7th Grade: Constant tests for SAT/Personality/"Critical" skills. Most of these were administered at my mom's office rather than the school, my placement was in the upper 10% but I had a burning hatred of math and being constantly tested.

8-12th Grade: Advanced science and history courses, with the same 5 kids from 6th grade. We had IQ tests from a woman (fed) every semester (which we were payed to take); eventually I received an invitation to MENSA but I turned it down as they're a bunch of assholes.

College: Sex, drugs, rock 'n roll. I eventually found myself broke and enlisted with the USMC for active duty. I'm given the "0231 MOS" which I (years,) later find out is only handed out by the CMC; my recruiter acted like it was no big-deal. I'm taken to physical training at the marine corps. base, but haven't yet gone through basic. Rather than have me mingle with the other recruits, they fly in a force RECON guy from the east-coast to do training with me. unfortunately I can't remember his name. I pass a SCI for TSCI clearance, sign a bunch of papers for the MOS to make command happy, and then am transferred to the DEP program and washed out for apathy (thankfully!) The funny thing is, I can't really remember what the hell happened for about 9 months of my time... and it's not like I was on drugs at that time either. I wen't through my grandparents photos, and there is a picture of me from that period... but we're separated by an ocean, and I don't remember the trip, the visit, etc.

-I later get two jobs of interest: one working for a psychologist who specializes in minority integration. She is funded by the FED. The other working for a former officer in ONI (USNA grad.)

CURRENT DAY: Unemployed, trying to get a job flipping burgers. So I guess the "Gifted and Talented" program is pretty much useless. But I must say, the one thing that makes me suspicious is how only command can see discharges of who washed out of the DEP program and what MOS's they were assigned.

Holy-moly! I forgot about the pencil tapping thing! But... there wasn't anything weird with the pencil sharpener like you said. Just tapping and counting the dots... maybe to judge motor co-ordination? Or type I/type II muscles?

reply to post by Wildmanimal

reply to post by Roundtree


Thank you for the heads-up about indigo children. It was very illuminating.... but logic tells us that people see what the want to see due to subjectivity, bull#, and beer.

I was in the un-gifted program. It wasnt really called that but should of been. The took a few of us on a field trip to the local county prison and showed us around. must of thought we would end up there some day.

reply to post by SymbolicLogic

The sad thing about the people who developed these Gifted Programs and when I was in Grade 1 through 5 the Space Program and Lunar Landings had generated a Presidential Order to stress Science and Math....I could read and write well before going to First Grade and I coasted through these programs....but the people who developed them were self anointed purveyors of what was defined as intelligence.

I realized at an early age that I was smarter than most of my teachers and this only got worse as I went to High School. They wanted me to be their Golden Boy but I was not game. Back then we had to take SAT's...IQ Tests...Social and Psychological Tests. It was at the end of NAM and recruiters were in the School Guidance Dept.

I learned that IQ tests were a joke and would answer questions that I knew the answers they were looking for even though there were better answers just to score high...I scored 174. That is 12 points above Einstein's IQ. The problem with IQ tests is that they did not take into account a persons social and emotional IQ as the test was all based on FLAWED Analytical Logic.

I don't think much of the tests and there are people who have IQ's that are of a different nature but these tests would never show their Intellect. Split Infinity

My mom and half father put me in a school with the nuns deep in the forest yrs ago
it was a church school for grade between 3 to 6 .. girls and boys were sleeping in different dormitoir
now that you say it .. i think it was a gifted program .. make sense .. i never though of it this way
didnt had any "gift" except having a different mindset of thoughs from other in general
and apparently costed a lot to put me there .. i was there for summer camps to during that period
we didnt had that much money so i was gratefull to have a fun time there
and it was 600km from our home .. each weekend they were picking me up
didnt see the time passing in the car.. i was playing with my game boy ahah

i was put there because i was very stuborn and a very energetic kid
and i was taking orders from no one especially the teachers and the bullies at other schools
i was hating most public schools i went and couldnt understand why i was put there by my mom
but it turned i liked that church school because i liked the forest all around us .. was more relaxing
even if the nuns were not messing around with stuborn kids .. it was a boot camp in some way
but it was great being in the nature and the school had animals to and many different games
with a artificial lake where we could do kayaking and swim
had my gang of friend playing Gi-Joes on the bed before the sleep time
prayers 5 times a day to before eating and sleeping was very important
we had to always be 100% serious during the prayers

and then BOOM public highschool .. i clearly wasnt in my place ahah
but i had to addapt to my new environement .. was quite hard
the school had a gang of bullies (typical) always trying to intimidate you
first yrs of high school .. at my right someone was sniffing some white pounder behind his book
had a knife put to my throat once before going home for dinner
watching my favorite cartoon Flintstone
while eating my sandwich on the carpet and not thinking about school for a moment
turning into a teenager was the hardest time of my life
so many things in your head:
school work
working for money,
going out with some friend on the week end,
trying to make a gf .. then came acne .. no more gf LOL

the lesson i learned from all of this .. always trust your Heart and have Faith
everyone in their life will be testing in some way
some have it easy some dont .. dont think negative but positive always

oh btw thats where i saw a UFO at that church school .. still trying to explain it
the reason why i found ATS searching on ufos
after 4-5 yrs of reading here i decided to finaly join and share what i have learned in life so far
it changed my life to question what this ufo was.. expending more my mind on the unexplained

the ufo in questions ... it was very late i was still not sleeping
something multicolor appeared in the dark forest under a big moon i think
i though it was a ice cream van first.. a kid beside me saw it to .. he said "what is that thing"
next morning i went to see where i saw it .. and no roads at all .. i was
tried to speak with the kid who saw it that night with me and he didnt want to talk about it
i found his reaction quite strange but i let him go not asking him more questions

life realy work mysteriously
giving you signs and clues at different time in your life
to trigger something in you .. like a big butterfly effect of chain reactions

so this is my story .. hope it wasnt to much boring
any thoughs ?

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by SymbolicLogic

 

The sad thing about the people who developed these Gifted Programs and when I was in Grade 1 through 5 the Space Program and Lunar Landings had generated a Presidential Order to stress Science and Math....I could read and write well before going to First Grade and I coasted through these programs....but the people who developed them were self anointed purveyors of what was defined as intelligence.

I realized at an early age that I was smarter than most of my teachers and this only got worse as I went to High School. They wanted me to be their Golden Boy but I was not game. Back then we had to take SAT's...IQ Tests...Social and Psychological Tests. It was at the end of NAM and recruiters were in the School Guidance Dept.

I learned that IQ tests were a joke and would answer questions that I knew the answers they were looking for even though there were better answers just to score high...I scored 174. That is 12 points above Einstein's IQ. The problem with IQ tests is that they did not take into account a persons social and emotional IQ as the test was all based on FLAWED Analytical Logic.

I don't think much of the tests and there are people who have IQ's that are of a different nature but these tests would never show their Intellect. Split Infinity

I got 74. Guess that puts me in the 'retard' category.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Granted the IQ 'tests' are fairly useless... (these days,) no-one denies it, and, most of the testers (and their bosses,) were aware of that; some children would score lower than their potential. As such, as I recall, they'd also use innocuous/subtle methods for testing a child. The logic seemed to be that if the testing was presented as a 'game' the young mind would be more receptive to the testing. So the program is in a constant state of evolution; the young eagles experimental flight program is a great example of that.

Two good examples of subtle testing used in the 90's are the:

"Mastermind" board game-Mastermind en.wikipedia.org...(board_game)

"Shapes from Shapes" -can't remember what it was actually called... the subject is shown an image and asked to re-create it using an assortment of shapes. Usually triangles.

At the end of the day, most of the GaTe kids (that I knew,) would end up developing superiority complexes and/or high levels of intelligence in one area whilst remaining wholly lacking in another, i.e. social skills. Not ideal... which is why I think ethics/emotional responses/social skills are starting to be stressed.

I still think it has very little to do with the tests.

I'm not going to pretend I know where the list comes from, but I'm almost certain that my teachers didn't choose me. It's more like they were notified that I would be tested. I don't know if it comes from previous test scores but I know of at least one person who was chosen to be tested for gifted well into middle school and this person didn't exactly test well in other arenas at school. I'm not saying they were stupid or made bad grades and because I knew them personally, I knew they were made to do their homework... but they weren't exactly top honors type of student either.

I'm very curious how they choose these things.

reply to post by NotAnAspie


It comes from the Top-Down. No idea how it works; I know that my teachers and school board didn't have anything to do with it though. If one could discern what that "first test" IS, what it's designed to measure, and who administers it (and all subsequent tests,) it'd be a good start. I got payed to take my tests, but I've no clue as to who/what federal agency, wrote out the cheques. Was anyone else on here payed by a federal agency? That seems like a good point to start inquiry. I'm also curious as to how many of us were later invited to mensa/golden key/field trips to D.C. for leadership stuff/out-of-country sport organizations/etc. and either a.) took the offer, or b.) didn't. I'll say that in the future, I'll be taking any opportunity I get to improve my situation. But at the end of the day, it's probably random.

*edit* But then again, whoever is in charge of the program is wise enough to realize that grades and test score don't mean much in terms of actual ability. Boredom, favoritism, racism, socio-economic standing, and a slew of other factors weigh in. For all we know, this program could be designed to figure out how much those factors weigh in? At least in part? Also, it always seemed that my teachers kept my grade artificially 'low' by citing attendance or by "losing" my submitted material, e.g. I'd get a 'C' on an assignment/tests that someone else in the program would get an 'A' on, despite the fact that our the product was comparable. There were also many instances of my projects getting stolen by classmates after I submitted them, the teacher giving them the points for my project, and failing me EVEN THOUGH THEY KNEW IT WAS MY WORK. As in my name was crossed/whited out and the other students name was written in. Yet despite this I was kept in. Why? No idea. Valuable life experience though.

Very interesting how 93% of this thread was posted by members joining in 2011-2012.

Another 4% or so 2010

3% Other...


My question to you who were int he gifted programs:

Did you ever get the impression that you may have been singled out to make sure you did not outshine the "Chosen" students who from Kindergarten were tagged for the school scholarships?

I definitely got singled out but I noticed other students in gifted did very well, but in my opinion they were treated different by the gifted class teacher. She clearly had her favorites. I didn't dislike those students but there were a few of us that she seemed to target almost immediately with a very horrible attitude.

Other students always had questions about the gifted class but they never said how it really made them feel... which made it even more awkward. My sisters picked on me relentlessly for it and clearly couldn't stand the fact that I was put in that class and I think my mother expected me to be able to figure out a lot of stuff on my own and other teachers would always reference me being in the gifted class any time I didn't do my best... like putting me on a guilt trip about it.

Needless to say I've not yet saved the world.

reply to post by antar


Of course the majority of us are "new" to the site. Look at when the thread was started! I'm sure you'd find a similar correlation with any 'recently' created thread that is on the first page of any forum. As for being "singled-out" it seems a bit of a stretch. Though it may be possible, it seems implausible. Just 'random' favoritism would seem more likely. I think American society these days praises good ethics yet REWARDS those who lack them. But then we start dealing with role/role modeling/role engulfment/pseudo science. At any-rate, one would think that anyone who consistently achieved low/mediocre grades would be booted from the program; this is not always the case. So either A.) students are kept in to make other students look "good", B.) Students are kept in due to a quota system, or, C.) Students are kept in due to grades not being a factor; maybe you include "average" students to answer a nature/nurture question?

*EDIT* I remember this one kid in the program, the only other boy in it. He got full ride scholarships to all the schools he applied to; really intelligent, great at math, great at sports, but he had no moral compass whatsoever. Anyhow, he fell into the trap of thinking that because he was 'smart' that he was smarter than everyone else. He was learning pre-algebra in 6th grade and would always try to one-up me. It blew his mind when he learned that I had already taken geometry YEARS before him. I was always nice to him, always tried to be his friend, but man... he was THE teachers pet NQA. If he started something with me (which was daily after he learned I had already aced geometry,) the teacher'd always back him up. So is the teacher singling a student out? Or reacting to their 'pet' being a little butt-munch, believing anything that the little bastard says?

I went to DC twice and I'm going to add a little more to this thread later because I have an interesting little story about gifted in middle school. It's too much to type at 10 pm but I'll have to remember to do this later.

reply to post by SymbolicLogic

One of the things that I remember was being brought into a room in the High School Guidance Dept. as a Freshman and told that i had scored in the top 1/8th of 1% or this would be scoring in the top .125% that is Point One Two Five of one Percent...or ONE PERSON OUT OF 800 PEOPLE in my Placement Tests.

In my JR Year I scored in the IQ Test...One out of 275,000 people or close to 1/1000th of 1%. The Social and Psych Tests were designed to determine a persons ability to work with others....as THEY SAW IT....and a Persons Capacity to perform certain acts under cause and effect situations. The Military Recruiters were VERY interested in this aspect of my test results.

Much to their dismay...I am NOT A FOLLOWER! Even in my Third JOB there has ALWAYS been an understanding that if they desired my help it would be on my terms and a person has to PROVE THEMSELVES before obtaining this Flexibility. I proved myself but as I have said...it was..."UNCLE" who saw this in me and since he knew me before as well as knowing my Mom and Dad...I was being WAITED FOR. "UNCLE" is very much like me in that he finds solutions to problems in an unconventional way as he has said many times...If I had to wait for some of these Paper Pushers to make up their Minds...everything would have become Hell in a Handbasket! I OWE HIM A LOT! Split Infinity

reply to post by SymbolicLogic


Thanks for your reply, I think you hit the point with mediocrity and I fully agree. Enjoyed reading your post.

I was in a GATE program in the 80's. I remember the frustration of always being pulled out of the regular class which served to isolate me socially, just to return to the regular class and have to catch back up on the lesson of the day. There did not seem to be any focus to the GATE program and I suspect that was due to the program being run solely due to compliance standards, likely in order to receive funding..

Who knows, maybe there was more of an agenda at work, but I doubt it..

Can any of you cite specific examples of tests/course work/projects/books? E.g. I remember our class reading "The Giver" the handful of us in an empty building at the edge of the property... I don't know why the teacher'd have a bunch of GT students reading that book, but I could think of a few reasons. Back then I refused to be so prideful to draw a parallel between the students in the program and the protagonist... yet the imagery is all there. TBH I was more into The Tempest/Waiting for Godot then anything they had us reading in class back then.

Originally posted by SymbolicLogic
Can any of you cite specific examples of tests/course work/projects/books

I remember playing where in the world is carman san diego, we worked on the year book a lot but it seems as though I didn't do much of that and can't remember why.

I think this will be my only post tonight...I am avoiding a certain thread because the comedy is getting way too deep over such a shameful issue. I just wanted to see if I could still post.

So, here's a weird little story. in 6th grade somebody walked up to me and said "you look like __________insert girls name. She doesn't go to this school but she went to my old school" & the way this kid said it, made me feel strange. He told me he thought i was her at first but realized i was a different person & gazed off as if it was his long lost love or something weird. I felt like some lame doppelganger of a mystery IT girl. Within the next year, I met this girl, because she moved down the street from me. Come to find out she had no idea who this kid was that told me i looked like her. She had her last name changed. I asked her why but she wasn't clear on that.

One day i went to her house and realized that her parents car which had been blue, was now red...and i don't mean cherry red... i mean factory red for that type of car, some boring metallic maroon. Since there was nothing wrong with the previous paint job i asked her why they did this and she didn't know. I, personally, would have asked my parents why they painted the car but I guess she didn't feel the urge.

she had a little brother who although i have never once seen him go into a seizure, they had him on phenobarbitol. she told me her dad (stepdad) counted his meds all the time & was very particular about all this and if he skipped a dose (because they would often be away and she would left in the house alone) she would get her ass beat...& she got her ass beat a lot. Not only that but she confided in me that her stepdad sexually molested her.

She was sexually active at the age of 13. the second person i knew of her to be sexually active with was her uncle.

She used to always tell me how lucky i was and it was like she wanted to have my family and be in my place. i kept telling her she needed to tell someone about the abuse but she never would, she just kept telling me about it and expressing how she wanted my life and how lucky i was, even though i didn't understand why she thought i was so lucky. we were poor, i spent most of my time in my room alone.

Anytime we were around guys she would slight me and was keen on reminding me of my small under developed body. there would have been no way to have a boyfriend around this girl because she would have had sex with all of them. i still liked her though but in 8th grade i broke off our friendship because she was slighting me at school in front of the two most rebellious girls in my school...which one of them i later befriended and found out she wasn't really a rebel she just failed a lot and her parents were pot heads.

one day before this happened she asked me to go with her to her neighbors house to babysit and while there she proceeded to take a rifle off the wall and was pointing it at me. her boyfriend had called her and they were talking and she was joking around that she would shoot him if he didn't behave. he asked to speak to me... I'm not sure why but she eventually handed the phone over to me and within a minute she shot the VCR and he heard it and let us go after asking if she had shot anyone. just moments before she had been pointing this gun at me thinking it was not loaded. there was a small child upstairs. he people she was babysitting for came home and she wanted me to take the blame... she pulled me off to the side and was begging me to take the blame because of her fear of her father. i refused, went home and sure enough she got her ass beat. She showed me the belt marks on her rear at school. I told her she needed to talk to someone about this but she refused.

Sometime in the following year we were tested again and i didn't even finish the test, but i really didn't care about being in that class anymore anyway. i hated school and thought it was a big joke.

I then found out that this girl had also been given a test and she was now in the class. one person, her, was put in... two of us were booted out.

Is that not a strange story?

I have other strange school stories but i can hardly believe some of them myself, can't prove it and they were too long ago. In another state up north i went to school with a girl in kindergarten. this is a complete mystery to me because i recognize this girl now from the media in another country. This girl was not american, she was English. One of the first times i ever saw her she walked right up to me while we were alone in the hall, she had followed me to the bathroom. She was standing mere inches from me staring me down. We were freaking 5!