Battle Of Samara - 7 Helicopters Downed, 147 Troops Killed

Why would a Chinese gov't employee be on this site throwing up prpoganda? You people amaze me sometimes. Why is it so hard to beleive that they cannot shoot down one of our helicopters, or that we could lose a few tanks? This is a war, not a nat'l gueard exercise. I personally beleive through friends of family I know figthing over there that the real truth isn't always bieng reported. Alot of the kids that are likked there have family, but I also read in sevearl books that certain elite units or special forces will acquire people with little to no family. This way if 22 boys are killed, they may not need to report them all. I do not believe it is fair to pounce on this poster in this fashion. CHrist, have an open mind and quit watching nothing but Fox or CNN for your war coverage.
I mean, if they inflate the numbers there for more support of the war they are waging, becuase casualties will stir things up, don't you think we may do the opposite by not reporting all the deaths?

Originally posted by esdad71
............but I also read in sevearl books that certain elite units or special forces will acquire people with little to no family. ............

You should try not to read the bathroom walls while you�re in there. Elite units are comprised of volunteers and the tests are largely physical fitness based, and the most recent example tatters that books moronic hypothesis�ever heard of pat tillman�happens to have had a fairly large family and just a couple of people interested in him.

If it is true it is really bad

I wonder if they'll make a movie about it
something like blackhawk down

I hope it is false but how can you dostroy 6 abrahams, I thought they where nearly invinsible

Notes:

I don't think they're using Cobras there, because only the Marines have them, and I'm pretty sure only the Army is conducting operations in Samarra.

I really don't think 'napalm' is being used over there. Nor F-14s.

To take down a Chinook, you would probably have to hit it squarely on the topside of the aircraft several times. The bottom is so armored that it can withstand direct hits from most RPG rounds.

How many Abrams? 6? HA!!! Very funny.

KEHolmes, maybe you should stop watching Discovery and talk to someone who may have actually been in a spec ops unit. I did not say all, I said some. Is your mind that closed? You do not walk in the recruiters office off the street and join afroce recoin unit in 3 months. THere are multiple criteria and many standards to be met before onee is considered, let alone accepted to any sepecial operations trainging in any military branch.. Please give me a little credit that I may know what I am talking about, cool?There are many operations our gov't has that we as a general public no nothing about from drug ops in central/south america to the covert ops in the Phillipines,Africa ,etc. I read non-fiction books not hte walls of your local bar...

Originally posted by esdad71
...You do not walk in the recruiters office off the street and join afroce recoin unit in 3 months.

I agree with most of that, esdad, but as of now, both the Army and Air force (I don't know for sure about the Navy) are signing initial contracts for SOF units. You can get a Green Beret contract off the street, as well as a Combat Air Controller from the Air Force.

Rumsfeld pushed an SOF heavy recruiting theme and got it. All you have to do is pass an extra battery of tests to get the contract. And if you fail the real tests, then you are assigned as a grunt. Everyone wins.

SFAS and Q Course standards remain the same, so there shouldn't be any drop in quality of the soldier. The standard for SF have dropped anyway. You only need a 100 GT score anymore, compared with 110 as of 1999 or so.

Through the end of April, the most recent accounting the VA could provide, a total of 166,334 veterans of operations in Iraq and Afghanistan had separated from military service, and 26,633 � 16 percent � had filed benefits claims with the VA for service-connected disabilities . Less than two-thirds of those claims had been processed, leaving more than 9,750 recent veterans waiting.

For more detail please see www.msnbc.msn.com...

============
Above only reflects the numbers by April 1. No consider the Fallujah blunder in April and Najaf uprising in June, the escalation of resistance in recent months, you could get a pretty good picture on the intensity of attrition in Iraq today.

A Guest summaries the situation quite nicely, and allow me to quote as following:
Sheds some more light.
This sheds some more light on the casualty truth.Note in the article above 6th paragraph As of April 2004 some 26,633 veterans from Iraq had filled for disability(that is filled only,not including those too ill to file).These that file are soldiers that have been too badly injured and need disabilty pay,26,633 by April 2004,So serious injuries.We are now in October 6 months further on from April,So that figure must be thousands higher.

These soldiers are so badly treated,because the surgeons are so busy they just patch them up the quickest way.A soldier who has his leg blown partly away,Instead of the surgeon spending the 6 hours needed on the operating table trying to save the leg,takes the 1 hour option of Amputation.This is happening all the times.So many Amputations that are not necessary occur,because the surgeons are overloaded with casualties and do not have the time to save limbs,so just amputate and get on with the next case.Their argument is that because they are hard pushed,other soldiers lives are put at risk if they spend too long on each case.Terrible.

Originally posted by esdad71
KEHolmes, maybe you should stop watching Discovery and talk to someone who may have actually been in a spec ops unit. I did not say all, I said some. Is your mind that closed? You do not walk in the recruiters office off the street and join afroce recoin unit in 3 months. ����.

Having talked too many�.as I was in one�I don�t think I will wait for someone to talk to. And no my mind is not that closed, due to my training and past I can talk to this with some degree of knowledge�.and as I stated I know of no elite force that picks people�they are all volunteer amongst an all volunteer army. And as another poster pointed out you can now off the street volunteer for the fast track to these outfits. Also having worked with the staffing and admin folks I know for a fact that picking orphans, in fact family in general, except as it pertains to security clearance are never discussed nor thought of. So someone should stop watching discovery for their information here but it is not I.


[edit on 3-10-2004 by keholmes]

Originally posted by Samiralfey
Whether the above report is true or false, I find it hard to believe that only 1 US-soldier was killed. Come on, they are not invunerable to lead and surely the resistance have found thier ways of killing US-occupiers by now, just shoot them in the face to avoid the body armor etc.

I think that the correct casualties is somewhere between Jihadspun-numbers and the US-mainstream-news numbers. The first victim of war is the truth.

i find it quite possible only 1 US-soldier was kiled because the US is much more deadly, trained, and better equiped. The iraqis cant do much when they have a gun ship shootin them from a quarter mile away, abrham tanks killing them form over a mile, and laser guided bombs comin from stealth aircraft at 30,000 ft. but maybe more than 1 soldier died but i doubt it wsa the carnage that the first post mentioned.



[edit on 3-10-2004 by Samiralfey]

I look at it this way.

The more outlandish the propaganda, the closer to LOSING, are the propagandidsts.
The more, and the longer these posts become, the closer the US and it's allies are to achieving the objectives!

A report from "mao Z cheng". is a report of US Victory!

Reach!, reach deep into your bag of organic fertilizer. pull out more of
these tidbits. Fling them across the forums...AND of course, don't support them with multiple sources, or even answer direct questions.
Then, ignore those who ask you repeatedly to do so.

ALSO.
How many WERE killed in Tiananmen square?

Originally posted by keholmes

...and as I stated I know of no elite force that picks people�they are all volunteer amongst an all volunteer army.

To my knowledge, Delta force is still invitation only. At least it was in the beginning.

"Inside Delta Force" by CSM Eric Haney, et al.

[edit on 3-10-2004 by DeltaChaos]

I'd like to add something to this obvious BS.

Is there anyone that can possibly believe that the liberaly biased media would not jump at the opportunity to expose these kind of serious losses in one offensive? Please, all you worldly hacks out there must know this. C'mon. A couple of misguided soldiers put panties on naked prisoners and form a couple of human triangles and the U.S. and world Press went CRAZY for two straight months!

DR

[edit on 3-10-2004 by darth ruin]

[edit on 3-10-2004 by darth ruin]

I don't want to sound cocky just because I used to be an American infantryman, but I really think its not probable that these people shot down 7 helicopters and destroyed 6 Abrams tanks.

I can't believe any of it because it sounds as if it were written by someone who is pretending very hard to know what they are talking about. But when they say that we are attacking with napalm, and F-14s, and Cobras, and that they downed a Chinook, sorry, but it just sounds like BS.

I wouldn't put it past our government to purposely under-report our losses, and for our media to report likewise, but that story is just so far-fetched.

There were over 20 birds flying in the Somalia incident, and they got really lucky to get two blackhawks. Maybe not so lucky, as the Blackhawks were intentionally flying low and stationary over a DZ that prior to arriving, they assumed would not be so hot. The Somalia was a mistake in planning based on intelligence that was not accurate or current. I just have more faith in the US military leaders in Iraq than to make such heinous mistakes.

With the number and types of kills reported in this story, Allah would not only have to had influence over the battle, but he probably would have had to actually fire the rockets that did such damage. The luck factor would be too great.

Originally posted by Off_The_StreetThere are no more F14 aircraft in the US military's active duty inventory.

Hell yeah, we got F-14's! The Tomcat is one of the strongest and fastest interceptor/fighters we have.

The problem with the story is that only the Navy have Tomcats. To my knowledge, the Navy isn't taking part in this operation. Neither are the Marines, who are the only ones that use Cobra attack helicopters. As for napalm, well that clinches it. This story is bogus.

I never said pick, I said acquire. There are people in charge who will choose the unit that is needed that will do this. Choose the unit based on need. I did not say that orphaned boys only join the green berets. I live in Tampa near MAcdill/SOCOM and have quite a few friends i went to hiugh school in the MArines ,Air Force and Army who served or are still in. I am not trying to bull# anyone here. I am 32 y/o and have nothign to try to prove here so I am sorry if i ruffled any feathers. Every person can take a fact and add and opinion and create their own fact.

It is also true that the Army is signing people up for Special Forces through the recruiting offices, just as many Navy recruiters will promise a good swimmer that if he tries hard enough he could achieve to pass the SEAL training or any other number of specialty fields. I am a pretty grounded person who served in the miiatary who is not here trying to see who can piss farther. I am not trying to say I led a group of orphaned boys into Nicaragua. I am just stating that there are times when everyone gets caught with #ty intel or BS leadership when it may or does hit the fan. Case in point, Somolia which I beleive was mentioned. I knoe people that went into Grenada and wound up WAY the hell where they were not supposed to be. It happens....




[edit on 3-10-2004 by esdad71]

Right, esdad...

I don't know who it was that said that SF operators have no families, or that these branches discourage their members from having families, it's just not true. Most of these people have families, and if they didn't, they probably wouldn't as easily qualify for the positions they fill.

Sounds like the enemy is using combat math.

5,000 rounds fired and one dead alley cat usually equals 10 KIA, 30 WIA, and 12 probables.

This is the biggest load of bs i have ever read..... even if this was true, u have no source. Why'd u even bother typing that s**t up? And if u say u didnt type it up show me the link.
If this was true, we'd be hearing it from more people that u, especially as u wern't there

I hate people who come on here and make up some absurd lie and expect people to believe it. Like you for instance zCheng.

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
Right, esdad...

I don't know who it was that said that SF operators have no families, or that these branches discourage their members from having families, it's just not true. Most of these people have families, and if they didn't, they probably wouldn't as easily qualify for the positions they fill.

Originally posted by esdad71
����������, but I also read in sevearl books that certain elite units or special forces will acquire people with little to no family. This way if 22 boys are killed, they may not need to report them all. �������.

Somalia is an excellent example why this story is a steaming pile, 18 kia and it was all over the news within hours of the start.



[edit on 3-10-2004 by keholmes]

Originally posted by yeoldehomer
I hate people who come on here and make up some absurd lie and expect people to believe it. Like you for instance zCheng.

I am sorry for you.

How do feel toward Bush/Cheney for the lies on Iraqi WMD and Iraqi 9/11 Connection that resulted in tens of thousands US troops either died or mayhemed? Due to indescribable hate to them, I am afraid you will take you own life.

On the contrary, if you have admiration of Bush/Cheney for what they have done to US and the World, you will be incurable because you always live in your fantasy world.



[edit on 3-10-2004 by zcheng]