US lies lead to war in 1898

This is for those of you who devoutly claim the government could never lie about a tragedy for an effective pretense to war. Open your history books to the chapter on the Spanish American War of 1898

Excuses for War:
"The first of these was the publication by Hearst of a stolen letter (the de L�me letter) that had been written by the Spanish minister at Washington, in which that incautious diplomat expressed contempt for McKinley. This was followed by the sinking of the U.S. battleship Maine in Havana harbor on Feb. 15, 1898, with a loss of 260 men. Although Spanish complicity was not proved, U.S. public opinion was aroused and war sentiment rose."

Sound familiar?

You can read the whole aritcle here www.historychannel.com...

yes, those that believe our gov't has never lied to us truly are being foolish. it has happened. but don't take that to mean that the gov't is always lieing to us. and in any case...dude, 1898...that's over a 100 years ago. let's get a little more modern.

Astroblade...what is wrong with talking about events in 1898? They are just as important in the development of this country as everything else, and in many respects just as relevant. History clearly shows that the events of the past lead to events of the future. So whether it is 1898 or 1941, what does it matter? Events throughout history have lead us to where we are now. History does not predict the future, but it definitely foreshadows future events.

i just figured Shadow would have a better chance driving home his point if he used a more recent event, and especially one that more people knew about. very few people know about the deceptions/lies that got us involved in the Spanish/American war, and even less know that said war existed. Shadow's point is valid, but when i was reading his post i first thought of the obviouos kennedy event or even the unusual circumstacnes surrounding pearl harbor. either of which much more people know about/remember. i have a feeling i'm going to be asked about this post of mine but i won't be able to respond until mid-day on sunday. later.

I figured the Spanish American war was a good example BECAUSE it's an old and fairly obscure reference. It's so old now that there aren't any more lies regarding it, everything is out in the open, unlike the Kennedy assination. The Kennedy assination is still just conjecture at best in the eyes of most people, most people aren't going to take what you say about that as fact until they see offical government documents. However with the Maine you can see all the documents and nothing regarding it is in dispute

Originally posted by Shadowflux
I figured the Spanish American war was a good example BECAUSE it's an old and fairly obscure reference. It's so old now that there aren't any more lies regarding it, everything is out in the open, unlike the Kennedy assination. The Kennedy assination is still just conjecture at best in the eyes of most people, most people aren't going to take what you say about that as fact until they see offical government documents. However with the Maine you can see all the documents and nothing regarding it is in dispute

Since you're brimming with confidence on the Spanish American War, and it's status as a neatly packaged piece of history.

Who sank the U.S.S. Maine, and how?

If you go far enough back every country has done some very bad stuff. But the Spanish American war is even a good example. Even now nobody really knows what sank the U.S.S Maine, could have been a under water mine could have just been a accident.

If you really want some examples of American misdeeds look into what was done to the Native Americans. But really most European countries did some bad stuff to Natives they came across.

The point isn't that I know who did it, it's that the government didn't know either yet said it was the Spanish, I thought it relevant since the majority of Americans were against going to war in the first place. I'm not starting a conspiracy theory surrounding the 1898 war, it was an example that the gov't will use little or no evidence as a basis for advancing their own interests. The post was meant for those still believing the government could never do somthing like that. And at the very least I thought it was an interesting tidbit of little known history and thought people might be interested to read about it. Perhaps I was wrong, I just believe no history should ever be forgotten. In a hundered years 9/11 and the War on Terror could be completely forgotten by the majority of the world's population and all this debate, everyone who died, it would all be in vain, much like what happened to the sailors of the Maine.

Originally posted by astroblade
yes, those that believe our gov't has never lied to us truly are being foolish. it has happened. but don't take that to mean that the gov't is always lieing to us. and in any case...dude, 1898...that's over a 100 years ago. let's get a little more modern.

wasnt the government just acting on what the press made up. after all the press made up the whole USS Maine being sunk by the spainish

don't get me wrong Krazy, i'm a bush-supporter and i don't believe there was any conspiracy surrounding 9/11. i do, however, know that every gov't has lied to it's people at one point or another, and that we must simply keep our eyes open for that, whill still avoiding becoming overly paranoid. considering that...you may have a point Krazy, but i personally tend to believe that the media follows the gov't, and not the other way around. at least in incidents of conspiracy and coverup.

the HC site
This was followed by the sinking of the U.S. battleship Maine in Havana harbor on Feb. 15, 1898, with a loss of 260 men. Although Spanish complicity was not proved, U.S. public opinion was aroused and war sentiment rose

Uhm, where is the lie in here then? The newspapers at the time jumped on the Maine, sunk by an explosion in a harbor controlled by the spanish off the coast of the US, as a cause for war against spanish imperialism. They assumed the explosion was intentional and caused by the spanish. The HC page says nothign about any government lie. I am not pretending that the gov is allways truthful, but this, and certainly not according to the site you chose to link to, not an example.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
If you go far enough back every country has done some very bad stuff. But the Spanish American war is even a good example. Even now nobody really knows what sank the U.S.S Maine, could have been a under water mine could have just been a accident.

I wonder, in 2105, will people be saying "Even now, nobody really knows who attacked America on 09.11.2001."

We have had no trial for the event, seen no evidence, and know only that the government is not interested in pursuing the very people they blame.

It's now obvious that whoever committed the attack is irrelevant. The psychological effect of the attack is what the politicians are interested in.

Originally posted by astroblade
yes, those that believe our gov't has never lied to us truly are being foolish. it has happened. but don't take that to mean that the gov't is always lieing to us. and in any case...dude, 1898...that's over a 100 years ago. let's get a little more modern.

Over one hundred years ago is exacly when the US went global with its imperial drive so still very relevant to todays situation.

Edit: adding

I also want to say that it seems like the US always goes to war under false pretenses. WW1 the lucitania, WW2 Pearl Habor both very staged events. Any war where they claimed the commies were coming (the soviets were NEVER as imperialist as the US, they wern't even that keen on a world revolution either) was utter scare-mongering. Can any one name a war where the US were honest about the reasons?

[edit on 4/10/2004 by Corinthas]

And let's not forget the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. That's another case where it can be argued that the American people were given half-truths in order to widen a war.
Actually, the Spanish-American War and the Filipino Insurrection are good case histories of America's move towards globalism and the results of imperialism/globalism.
joey

Where is the lie?

Are you suggesting that the sinking of the Maine is beyond a doubt accidental and innocent, and that the U.S. government definitely lied (Not that I have a hard time believing that the government would lie!)?

As far as the Gulf of Tonkin, anyone who would not question anything LBJ was a part of is in dire need of mental hygiene!

[edit on 4-10-2004 by Thomas Crowne]

Thomas, i think you're missing the point, but if you must know the Maine was a steam powered warship, a battle ship if memory serves (the designation of a battelship differs from the generic term battleship, the ships in WWII were Dreadnaught class). I don't think I need to tell you how dangerous a massive boiler rolling around in the middle of the ocean with a cargo hold full of munitions can be. If you ask me, claiming to know somthing you don't is a lie, a half turth is a lie, and starting a war based on conjecture is totally inexcusable.

[edit] As a side note the prevailing theory of today states that the heat of the burning coal, coupled with a design flaw, could have caused a powder magazine to explode, ripping the hull open. Do a quick google search if you don't want to believe me

[edit on 4-10-2004 by Shadowflux]

In 1898, the sinking of the battleship Maine was the excuse for the Spanish American War

In 1915, the sinking of the ocean liner Lusitania was the excuse for World War I

In 1941, the attack on Pearl Harbor was the excuse for World War II

In 1964, the Gulf of Tonkin affair was the excuse for the Vietnam War

In 2001, the 9/11 attacks were the excuse for the "war on terrorism"

Whom started these wars? You guessed right, the Elites. Whom are the Elites? Well, start with the Trilateral Commission for starters. The question is, how far in the rabbit hole do you want to go?