``Religion is the cause of most wars and death``

reply to post by chr0naut


The problem is this...you are attempting to look at an irrational thing, with a rational mind. You're not brainwashed by religion, so how can you say that no one is brainwashed by religion. That's like saying, "I don't have down's syndrome, therefore down's syndrome must not exist"

How many people do you know that will strap bombs to themselves and willingly explode themselves for money, or politics? Regardless of the motivator or "hidden hand" behind conflicts, religion is a strong enough motivator for a simple minded person to die for.

(The Japanese kamikaze attacks during WWII don't count , even though they believed that their emperor was God, there are views that will say there were nationalist motivations)

reply to post by EyesWideShut


It did become about that, eventually, but from the only history on the pre-Mohammedian Arab's fight with the Hebrews, (yes, the Bible), they started out as conniving siblings--but this is if and only if the Arabs can trace their lineage back to Abraham. Just that it may have been through Ishmael and Issac's sibling rivalry, not Jacob and Esau (Issac's boys). Quotes from texts, and arguemnts agaisnt those texts: about whether or not the Arabs were descendants of Abraham. Complicated mess.

Why is it that everyone misses the main reason for all of this insanity?

"All war is based on deception." ~ Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Here's one that pretty much says it all (for those few who have the ability to see the big picture):

“Why, of course, the people [of every nation] don’t want war: but, after all, it is the leaders of the countries who [plan wars], and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED [BY SOME EVIL PERSON OR COUNTRY] and they will do it. They will denounce the pacifists [those who oppose war], for lack of patriotism and say they are exposing the country to danger.” ~ Hermann Goering, a Nazi leader next in rank to Hitler, stated in the Nuremberg trials

"The idea was that those who direct the overall conspiracy could use the differences in those two so-called ideologies [marxism/fascism/socialism v. democracy/capitalism] to enable them [the Illuminati] to divide larger and larger portions of the human race into opposing camps so that they could be armed and then brainwashed into fighting and destroying each other."- ~ Myron Fagan

CENTRAL BANKERS ARE BEHIND ALL WARS

All wars are organized by the Illuminati bankers to collect or incur debt, plunder
or profit, and advance their program for "world government" tyranny. They
appeal to our patriotism to sucker us in. We are told we are fighting to "preserve
freedom" when the opposite is actually the case.
Henry Makow Ph,D.

reply to post by Murgatroid


Who were the central bankers 2000 years ago?

Originally posted by EyesWideShut
reply to post by Murgatroid

 

Who were the central bankers 2000 years ago?

You got me ... something to think about:

Jesus was slaughtered soon after He interfered with the MONEY changers (Synagogue of Satan?). Just like Kennedy, Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, Harding, Harrison, Taylor, possibly FDR and not to mention the attempts against Buchanan, Jackson, and Reagan.

One group and one group alone is responsible for virtually all wars and bloodshed on the face of this planet. This evil cabal is few in numbers but, like a deadly octopus, its tentacles reach out to grip and strangle untold multitudes of innocent victims. The initiates of every secret society and internationalist organization, from the Council on Foreign Relations and the Jesuits to the Bilderbergers and the Order of Skull & Bones, obey the dictates of this sinister group and tremble when standing before its leaders.

The cabalist group I refer to is the Synagogue of Satan, an ANCIENT, yet modern, elite so politically powerful and so fabulously wealthy that even past history has been twisted, reshaped, and revised to meet its preferred version of humanity's gloomy, totalitarian future.

Religious in nature, the Synagogue of Satan is, at its essence, a grotesque, satanic cult. It's high council is composed of High Priests of Lucifer; these are men who literally worship death while practicing sexual magick and occult rituals of the blackest nature. LINK

Originally posted by HamrHeed
Where did this idea come from anyways:
It`s quite obvious to anyone with integrity that it doesn`t make the top 3 even.
Quit making excuses please, for your irrational hatred of people you fear or do not understand. Discuss

Imagine this for a minute.. if you will...

There's a VERY important window of opportunity coming .. COSMICALLY... for humanity to finnally get it's act together and breach it's current paradigm into one of untold wonders and treasures..

the clincher is this...

we all have to be on the SAME PAGE regarding the ACTUAL SCIENTIFICALLY VALID prospect of spirituality, and our relationship to the overarching hierarchy of conscious beings in the universe.. ending with a god-head type being...
IN ORDER to make this leap... TOGETHER...

the problem is that there are so many billions of people holding completely perpendicular concepts of this reality...

RELIGION... basic texts set forth in text on a bunch of paper...
is what holds us back from all being on the same page.

if we were all on the same page.. the same "vibe" the same exact understanding of what ACTUALLY IS HAPPENING.. regarding existence....

then we'd make the leap together... hand in hand...

but such is NOT the case at this very fulcrum point of history.,

hence the FORCE used that you see nowadays with the intentional eradication of Islam, then Christianity.. and eventually Atheism... via Pike's strategies...

just saying...

imagine for a minute if you will...

Yes, OP, "religion" isn't the leading cause of bloodshed and wars. It's about territory, resources and greed, but yes, sometimes religious ideology does factor. To me, it's very much like the gun control argument - the belief that guns kill when in actuality a person must pull the trigger. People that kill will just pick up another weapon if a gun isn't available.

There are two factors at play in this oft repeated claim that "religion causes all wars", which frankly only exists in the western nations of Christendom.
1) it's brainwashing by those who despise God upon generations of unsuspecting Israelites who've been indoctrinated to abandon the God of their forefathers, and
2) it's so easily provable as a lie, yet people that are not taught to love truth, believe it.

The ones preaching secular humanism are crafty, never once admitting that they themselves are passing on morality, ideology and doctrine to our kids. Well heck, isn't that by definition a religion? It, like atheism, even has it's own creation story - the theory of evolution! Yet, they are taught to be blind and not take responsibility for their actions. Adherants drive by the latest school shooting, the local mega prison, the abortion clinic, the homeless under the bridge, the food banks in every town, the local methodone clinic, the crowded courts, the gang infested neighbourhood, the neighbourhoods with bars on the windows, the business owner who drives his sports car yet elimated 20 jobs so that he could have yet more possessions etc etc This is what abandoning the God of our forefathers has brought our society, yet most will fully keep ignoring the truth right in front of their faces - that the fruits of Godlessness are death. These people are the ones who keep believing the lie that "religions cause all wars" because it provides them with justification for rejecting God. Just as they can drive by all of those things and keep believing that humanism is the correct path for mankind, even though it results in all of that misery for their fellow human beings and themselves. Humanism has taken hold of many churches as well because they also preach a religion.

The choice from God is clear - choose good and life or evil and death. Humanism teaches the exact opposite, and the proof is all of the above. If humanism was a blessed path for man, it's fruit would be wonderful instead of rotten. Yet, God says that it ends like this because there comes a time when the nations so totally dismiss truth because they start believing that good is "evil" and evil is "good" and therefore love wickedness more than good. God even said to Cain that he still could choose good and do what is right - yet what did Cain do? He promptly murdered his brother. The Bible is to and about Israel, and if we knew that it was us, some would start to notice this filth all around us repackaged by someone as "good". I never did until I sought God.

If someone spent a few hours looking at credible sources, researching the history of wars, they'd soon see that the oft repeated claim that "religion causes all wars", or "there would be no wars if religion was eliminated" is just the biggest load of nonsense going. And just maybe, a person who learned to value truth, will then start to question why people choose to believe lies and why it's a claim coming only from the atheist and humanists camp.

Jesus summed it up
"Therefore Jesus said again, “I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. 8All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full." John 10:7-10

God isn't a religion, He is a spirit and Our Creator. Understand that He is found in the privacy of prayer, not that silly mega church with it's Starbucks and bowling alley - which is a religion which has succumbed to yet another religious institution - secular humanism. God is clear - He brings the sword, famine and plagues of misery to those who reject Him for evilness - that choosing the spirit of disobedience will bring His judgements unless His people REPENT of their wicked ways, that is choosing to leave behind evil and choose His good which leads to blessings. It is no coincidence that the nations of Israel are easily circled on a globe, and that every single one of thse countries have been swamped with humanism. It's a tragedy that nearly every single person in these countries are aware that Israel is come against by Satan, yet they have no idea that it's been happening for decades through their beliefs. Their Christian forefathers are rolling over in graves probably wanting to sound the alarm, but alas, their great grand kids are too busy believing their new religion - the cult of man. CHOOSE WISELY. Jesus heals blindness and deafness.

Thousands of years ago religion created a power dynamic where one man has more importance over another by being a representative of God.

This created a form of social psychology where men are not treated equally, i personally believe much of humanities violence stemmed from this one, early, psychological factor in the upbringing and early development of our consciousness.

reply to post by WhoKnows100


Why can't Christians ever speak without preaching?

Me: Hey, what are we getting for lunch?

Christian: Well the bible says...

Me: Whoa, Whoa...easy there killer, I just want to know where we're going to go for lunch

Christian: I know where YOU'RE going... Straight to hell if you don't repent!

Me: Damnit man! Why is it so hard to answer my question!!! I don't want to know what your God said, I'm hungry bro! let's just go grab burgers by the lake!

Christian: By the lake huh?... yeah the lake of fire!

Me: @&#*%$%!!!

In all seriousness, I do believe in a creator. I simply don't believe the book that you're quoting.

reply to post by HamrHeed


I disagree.

Although you can say religion is responsible for millions of deaths over our history I beliee the struggle for power and money are the root cause.

Even when "religion" was the supposed reason I believe man has used religion and a tool to reach their goals of power.

Power & greed are the main causes of war in my opinion, which is why there will be no end to it.

It's the excuse or justification not the cause.

Morons following psychotic tyrants orders to satisfy personal urges is the cause.

Gods, nations, flags, ideals, etc... all secondary and essentially FAKE tools used to manipulate a sea of morons.

These fools dont even know their beliefs are pointless because they just believe them so damn hard.

From knights charging in the crusades to Rudy capping off OBGYN's to nations stockpiling nuclear bombs to deter other nations stockpiling nuclear bombs.

It's all based on imaginary constructs with unfortunately very real consequences.

If you find yourself caring so much about some imaginary nonsense you're out chanting and marching or even waring for it you really need to take stock of your life and find the thing(s) that are missing.

This reminds me of the Memorial Day events of the past weekend. Why should I care one way or the other about a bunch of fools who signed up to take bullets for a pointless cause? So some guy in a suit suckered you with a flag and "patriotism" and now I'm supposed to salute and maybe even cry?

Thank you mighty soldiers for bombing a bunch of illiterates in caves on the other side of the globe. Thank you mighty soldiers for dropping napalm on jungle villages.

Because I was totally scared of the commie/terrorist/fascist/whatever threat that either had no hope of ever getting here in the first place or came here anyway despite all you dumb-asses dying face down in mud.

This behavior is universal of stupid humans. Religion is just one excuse. To claim it is a cause is to overlook the real problems and allow them to continue.

Originally posted by EyesWideShut
reply to post by chr0naut

 

Wow, hmmph... I thought it was because the two groups of semites (Jews & Arabs) were fighting over Holy land that the Jews believed was promised by G-d and the Muslims said the Prophet ascended to heaven over the temple mount.... that and the fact that they argue over whose story is valid in each of their religious texts even though it's essentially the same story. (My book is right and yours is wrong)

It's a land dispute, not a religious dispute. Before zionist tendencies for the jews to reclaim the land started rearing their head in the last century or so, jews and muslims generally coexisted peacefully - meaning it is not directly a religious matter. Iran still hosts the largest non-israeli contingent of jews in the middle east, even giving them a spot in their government, and they get along well enough otherwise elsewhere - the territory dispute and complaints over the alleged treatment of the palestinians (and claimed theft of their lands) are the POLITICAL drivers of the actual issue.

Does religion even exist in your world?... you refuse to acknowledge that it has had any bearing whatsoever in any conflict in mankind. lol

Some will go too far with it, but religion is generally at most an ancillary cause of war, a mask for the true issues to hide behind and be blamed on. Yes, you'll frequently find different religious groups on different sides, but when you look into it, the root cause lies elsewhere.

Take care.

so.. what religion is the correct one ?

if anyone can prove even "one" religion is anything more that story time.... we humans can all stop fighting


ok.... go...

Actually I'd say Government is the biggest killer.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
It's the excuse or justification not the cause.

Morons following psychotic tyrants orders to satisfy personal urges is the cause.

Gods, nations, flags, ideals, etc... all secondary and essentially FAKE tools used to manipulate a sea of morons.

But that doesn't mean you should turn a blind eye and allow those "fake tools" to proliferate, no?

reply to post by Xtrozero

(Religion, nationalism and racism) are simply motivators to engage the ignorant masses. Nationalism has actually been the worst...

Agreed. I almost gave you a star for that, but I read on...

Take the Christian Crusades, religion had little to do with this, except for the low front soldier who may have thought so.

If you read first-hand accounts by people like Geoffroy de Joinville or Geoffroi de Villehardouin, you'll discover that religion was indeed a very great motivator for many Crusaders. These men were not 'low front soldiers'; they were noblemen. Joinville was a close personal friend of King Louis II, himself a deeply religious man. We in our secular modern world cannot have any intuitive understanding of the power religion exerted over such men. We see the political and economical aspects of their religious wars and movements, the partisanism and self-interest associated with them, and often we cynically assume that the religious aspect was merely a fig-leaf to cover all of that. We would be greatly mistaken to do so.

Villehardouin tells us that the first crusade began as a grassroots religious movement started by a failed pilgrim, Peter the Hermit, who had been prevented from reaching Jerusalem by the Turks. Of course, Pope Urban II saw in the crusades an opportunity to export some of Christendom's problems – he said as much, quite openly, at the Council of Clermont – but the religious motive was nonetheless dominant.

I agree with you that religious and other divisions are traditionally exploited by those who wish to make war for territorial or mercenary reasons. However, let's not forget that those territorial or mercenary motives are often, in their turn, nothing but excuses to indulge an impulse to make war on our fellow-men that appears to be an inherent attribute of our species. Just as religion itself appears to be, incidentally.

Religion is blood guilty for their long history of blessing the troops and telling them that they are doing God's work. WW2 saw American & French Catholics killing German Catholics and Protestants killing protestants. Recent years we have seen Muslims killing Muslims and any other religion that opposes them.

If the priests and their respective followers had followed the Bibles command In Isaiah 2:4

"And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore",

they might be able to claim to be a force for peace. Instead they stand condemned.

They have promoted nationalism and been willing tools of despotic political leaders, often fanning the flames of hate right along with the rest of the warmongers.

While the fundamental reason for wars is human greed, systems like religion validate the pursuit of the goals of the greedy elite. The primary reason religion as we know it now was created was in order for the elite to control the masses and have "divine" backing to invade and destroy other nations.

Of course religion has elements of truth, elements of the good side of humanity. For if it was all bad, if it was all a lie, then people will see it for what it really is. But by adding in just the right amount of candy, it makes it a sweeter pill to swallow. Then once ingested, the terminal cancer sets in.

So while religion itself is not the direct cause of most wars and death, it certainly is one of the most widely used weapons. Its a terminal mental illness of the human race. It has set us back thousands of years in terms of development, and even now, still holds us back as a species.

Originally posted by The_Oracle

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
It's the excuse or justification not the cause.

Morons following psychotic tyrants orders to satisfy personal urges is the cause.

Gods, nations, flags, ideals, etc... all secondary and essentially FAKE tools used to manipulate a sea of morons.

But that doesn't mean you should turn a blind eye and allow those "fake tools" to proliferate, no?

No. But you have to be careful how you approach them.

These people who buy into tripe like this arent too bright. You start in with how the flag is a pointless symbol and how religion and patriotism are distractions used to manipulate and obfuscate and all they hear is "he doesnt like the flag!!!" and "the heathen hates god!!!" and the idiots rally around their idiotic battle cries tighter and more defensive than ever.

Like a Chinese finger trap. The harder you pull the tighter it gets.

Here's the top:

Democide is a term revived and redefined by the political scientist R. J. Rummel as "the murder of any person or people by a government, including genocide, politicide, and mass murder."


In the 20th century, democide passed war as the leading cause of non-natural death.
Source[5]