I defy anybody to show me evidence of a terrorist attack .

Originally posted by kidtwist

 

Can you and your buddies explain why you devote years of your life to it? Could you not be doing something better if the OS stand ups? Maybe charity work or something?

Don't you think you are wasting a lot of time and energy on something that does not need supporting if the OS is as clear cut as you seem to say it is?

I cannot speak for anyone else, but for me, the defining moment was when I was in an internet political chat room discussing the Bush administration when some truther zealot invaded the forum and started spouting "9/11 was an inside job" rhetoric. When I told him I see how that was possible, this zealot said (and I quote) "Bush murdered 3000 people in a flase flag and since I was letting him get away with it, I was a murderer too".

At first I was thoroughly horrified and disgusted at such aggogance and utter ignorance that came literally out of nowhere, but after looking into the movement I became fascinated at just how slick the propaganda campaign to sucker people into swallowing these 9/11 conspiracies actually was and it's breeding a blind devotion to them. Those con artists turn "does the order still stand" into "stand down order" to get you to believe the gov't is constantly plotting to murder us all, and the more I listen to you, the more I realize you've been raped by those damned fool conspiracy web sites, and badly. All I'm doing is trying to get you to realize it.

If you ever meet that fellow who called me a murderer, you have him to thank.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


So you became an OS'er for spite?

Goodol'dave

Why is it that the only evidence the truthers have is Youtube?

Why don't they look at the evidence presented at the trial?

Just look at the the timeline of spending events Of Atta. Here

Look at how much he spent and on what items. Down to the purchase of a utility knife at Lowes a week or so before 9/11. Plus the large amounts of money he wired back to UAE a couple of days before the attack.

Or is it too much work for you? I suppose you don't believe in hard physical evidence. If it doesn't have a slick announcer and sinister music in the background it can't be true.

Truthers are the laziest bunch I have ever seen. I'm glad they will never take office.

Youtube is not the real world.

reply to post by exponent


Maybe you should hire a "truther engineer". At least your house won't completely collapse if you have a fire.

reply to post by dawnprince


You are dull. The stuff you are talking about has been rehashed, fought over and still there is no conclusive evidence of or against 9/11.

No ones opinions matter for the reason that I stated...people have moved on and people have stopped caring as much. I have never really cared to much who did it because whoever did it needs to be brought to the gas chamber. But we are never going to find out for SURE.

Whether government or terrorist its all the same thing. 9/11 might just be the most talked about irrelevant event in modern times because of how it has not even turned the people against the government en mass!


Whatever happened that day will always be written up as the greatest terrorist attack on American soil and rightly so. Whoever did it are terrorists, homegrown or foreign the definition of terrorism does not segregate race or group!!

Originally posted by Flatcoat
Maybe you should hire a "truther engineer". At least your house won't completely collapse if you have a fire.

This would be a nice bit of sarcasm if I hadn't seen truthers literally saying fire cannot harm steel. They'd just assume the steel would somehow wick away the heat and everything would be fine

reply to post by dawnprince


What?......that unscathed Arab passport found in the rumble and the 'how to fly a plane' manual left in the rental car in Boston, didn't do it for ya?
You must be one of them-there conspiracy theorists now!

(welcome aboard )

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

So you became an OS'er for spite?

Goodol'dave

Umm, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion, but no I haven't...and I need to point out I'm not an OS'er. I have pointed out many times I don't believe everythign the gov't tells me and I do agree there's a coverup...it's just that the truthers don't want to accept what I believe the coverup is because my conspiracy theory is boring.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

So you became an OS'er for spite?

Goodol'dave

Umm, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion, but no I haven't...and I need to point out I'm not an OS'er. I have pointed out many times I don't believe everythign the gov't tells me and I do agree there's a coverup...it's just that the truthers don't want to accept what I believe the coverup is because my conspiracy theory is boring.

What is your theory, I'd love to hear it...

Originally posted by kidtwist

 

What is your theory, I'd love to hear it...

That a) the gov't isn't some collective hive mind or a brain sitting in a vat of fluid in a laboratory somewhere, but a gigantic collection of agencies run by armies of people, some of them smart, some of them complete idiots, and some of them lazy as hell. b) They were expected to work together as a single entity during the 9/11 attack and it wound up being one great big three ring circus of people slipping on banana peels and tripping over their own shadows. Now, c) when we're looking for accountability for who was slipping on banana peels and tripping over their own shadows everyone is pretending nobody knows anything about anything. If, for example, someone discovered they had an imminent warning of a terrorist attack lying forgotten beneath a pizza box in the corner of their office there's absolutely positively no way they're going to admit it and I would even put money on it. Then d) hordes of self serving crackpots and con artists wanting to make a fast buck will look at this vaccuum of information and conjure up paranoia stories of sinister secret agents plotting to control the world in order to sell their knicknacks, and they're getting the truthers to imagine sinister conspiracies and secret plots hidden everywhere.

The "conspiracy" is very simple- noone wants to admit they screwed up and allowed 3000 people to die, not only to evade personal responsibility but to conceal the fact from our world enemies that the most sophisticated air defenses in the world are only as good as the high school dropout pushing the buttons on the console while texting his girlfriend. As I said before, an administration that couldn't even hand out bottles of water to hurricane survivors in New Orleans could hardly pull off the most complex and intricate conspiracy in all of recorded human history with the sheer perfection of a supernatural act.

Plus, it's absurd to accuse me of being a "paid shill" because all I'm doing is to convince people that instead of using reason A why we shouldn't trust the gov't, we should instead use reason B for why we shouldn't trust the gov't.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by kidtwist

 

What is your theory, I'd love to hear it...

That a) the gov't isn't some collective hive mind or a brain sitting in a vat of fluid in a laboratory somewhere, but a gigantic collection of agencies run by armies of people, some of them smart, some of them complete idiots, and some of them lazy as hell. b) They were expected to work together as a single entity during the 9/11 attack and it wound up being one great big three ring circus of people slipping on banana peels and tripping over their own shadows. Now, c) when we're looking for accountability for who was slipping on banana peels and tripping over their own shadows everyone is pretending nobody knows anything about anything. If, for example, someone discovered they had an imminent warning of a terrorist attack lying forgotten beneath a pizza box in the corner of their office there's absolutely positively no way they're going to admit it and I would even put money on it. Then d) hordes of self serving crackpots and con artists wanting to make a fast buck will look at this vaccuum of information and conjure up paranoia stories of sinister secret agents plotting to control the world in order to sell their knicknacks, and they're getting the truthers to imagine sinister conspiracies and secret plots hidden everywhere.

The "conspiracy" is very simple- noone wants to admit they screwed up and allowed 3000 people to die, not only to evade personal responsibility but to conceal the fact from our world enemies that the most sophisticated air defenses in the world are only as good as the high school dropout pushing the buttons on the console while texting his girlfriend. As I said before, an administration that couldn't even hand out bottles of water to hurricane survivors in New Orleans could hardly pull off the most complex and intricate conspiracy in all of recorded human history with the sheer perfection of a supernatural act.

Plus, it's absurd to accuse me of being a "paid shill" because all I'm doing is to convince people that instead of using reason A why we shouldn't trust the gov't, we should instead use reason B for why we shouldn't trust the gov't.

edit on 1-6-2012 by GoodOlDave because: (no reason given)

You may honestly believe this but it does not make it correct. What you are saying is : 9/11 = GWOT. What The Sane of The World are saying is 9/11 != GWOT.

You are essentially saying you are okay with everything that has happened in the USA since 9/11. In fact, everything since has led to the bankruptcy of the nation, upon all levels, most importantly: the moral aspect.

Do you want World War III? Do you want to see the world engulfed in nuclear warfare? Which US city are you willing to give up in the name of this INSANE policy? Where does preemptive war end? IN HISTORY's UNMARKED GRAVE OF DISCARDED LIES...BUSH told you what he was and you went right along with it. This lie is taking the nation down -- it is destroying the nation! In World War III, the USA will lose. Can we defeat China and Russia, maybe Venezuela and Brazil -- if they join in?

1350 feet of matter does not go away in ten seconds (by the circumstances provided by the government)! (And with absolute certainty -- not TWICE!) The collapse of the towers, inferno, and storm violate the Conservation of Energy. This is not disputable and can be proven with simple experiments.

How did the towers come down? There is no acceptable response from the otherside because you have to craft more and more elaborate illusions to twist and alter the basic principles of physics.


See "Shock & Awe: Acheiving Rapid Dominance" -- OPERATIONAL BRILLIANCE is a principle of this doctrine.

reply to post by samkent


and how do you know that report has anymore truth to it? because it was supplied by a government funded agency? Because it's on paper? Why is it that because it's from an "official" source is the paper report any more valid then a youtube report? Don't be so naive. If anything I would argue that the validity is lessened because the funding behind the official reports comes from places that would cover up facts to save themselves from trouble. I would also argue that the validity of youtube reports is only increased because the motivation behind them is one of passion and truth. Not hiding facts or for profit like some other sources could be.

reply to post by GrimReaper86


You're distorting your own ability to recognise the truth. By dismissing evidence from those best positioned to collect and analyse that evidence. You've selected people who are least able instead.

Just because someone wants to search for truth does not mean they are in any way objectively better at searching for truth. This forum proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt. I've seen the following theories vehemently proposed here:

• There were no planes
  
• There were no victims
  
• There were no fires
  
• There were micronukes
  
• There were beam weapons
  
• There was a type of nanothermite never seen before
  
• There were secret demolition workers on site

There's no rigour there.

Originally posted by exponent
reply to post by GrimReaper86

 

You're distorting your own ability to recognise the truth. By dismissing evidence from those best positioned to collect and analyse that evidence. You've selected people who are least able instead.

Just because someone wants to search for truth does not mean they are in any way objectively better at searching for truth. This forum proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt. I've seen the following theories vehemently proposed here:

• There were no planes
  
• There were no victims
  
• There were no fires
  
• There were micronukes
  
• There were beam weapons
  
• There was a type of nanothermite never seen before
  
• There were secret demolition workers on site

There's no rigour there.

actually I've seen documentaries with the proper evidence to suggest that nanothermite was there...which it is easily possible that some military grade nanothermite exists which the general public is not aware. I've also seen evidence to suggest that at least some floors were worked on previous to the event which suggests that nanothermite could easily have been planted during maintenance if it were a staged event.

I don't see how building 7 fell without a plane hitting it without some sort of preplanned demolition.

Originally posted by GrimReaper86
actually I've seen documentaries with the proper evidence to suggest that nanothermite was there...which it is easily possible that some military grade nanothermite exists which the general public is not aware. I've also seen evidence to suggest that at least some floors were worked on previous to the event which suggests that nanothermite could easily have been planted during maintenance if it were a staged event.

I don't see how building 7 fell without a plane hitting it without some sort of preplanned demolition.

The whole point of these documentaries and the people behind them is to convince you that they have the proper evidence and that you can trust they have done their research correctly.

Most of the time though it's based on shoddy work and really bad investigating. Look at Loose Change for the best possible example. Partially credited with starting the truth movement, almost every claim espoused in the original film is now not considered a mainstream belief. There were something like four or five different versions of the same film produced to 'update' the list of evidence (mostly removing claims shown easily to be false).

I think that if you took the time to go through the official reports, you'd discover there's a whole world of facts and events out there that the conspiracy websites literally do not talk about. Only a tiny minority of the people producing this material have ever read the official reports, they're long and difficult reading and youtube videos are much easier. The problem is that when all you've watched is a bunch of video clips from random people, you've only focused on the bits they cared about the most, and as they likely haven't read the reports either, they have no idea what context to put things in.

This results in the current situation, a few thousand active truthers online with such widely varying beliefs that a good chunk of them call another good chunk of them 'deliberate disinformation'.

If you need a better example of a group all using an illogical belief system then I don't think you'll find it.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by kidtwist

 

What is your theory, I'd love to hear it...

That a) the gov't isn't some collective hive mind or a brain sitting in a vat of fluid in a laboratory somewhere, but a gigantic collection of agencies run by armies of people, some of them smart, some of them complete idiots, and some of them lazy as hell. b) They were expected to work together as a single entity during the 9/11 attack and it wound up being one great big three ring circus of people slipping on banana peels and tripping over their own shadows. Now, c) when we're looking for accountability for who was slipping on banana peels and tripping over their own shadows everyone is pretending nobody knows anything about anything. If, for example, someone discovered they had an imminent warning of a terrorist attack lying forgotten beneath a pizza box in the corner of their office there's absolutely positively no way they're going to admit it and I would even put money on it. Then d) hordes of self serving crackpots and con artists wanting to make a fast buck will look at this vaccuum of information and conjure up paranoia stories of sinister secret agents plotting to control the world in order to sell their knicknacks, and they're getting the truthers to imagine sinister conspiracies and secret plots hidden everywhere.

The "conspiracy" is very simple- noone wants to admit they screwed up and allowed 3000 people to die, not only to evade personal responsibility but to conceal the fact from our world enemies that the most sophisticated air defenses in the world are only as good as the high school dropout pushing the buttons on the console while texting his girlfriend. As I said before, an administration that couldn't even hand out bottles of water to hurricane survivors in New Orleans could hardly pull off the most complex and intricate conspiracy in all of recorded human history with the sheer perfection of a supernatural act.

Plus, it's absurd to accuse me of being a "paid shill" because all I'm doing is to convince people that instead of using reason A why we shouldn't trust the gov't, we should instead use reason B for why we shouldn't trust the gov't.

edit on 1-6-2012 by GoodOlDave because: (no reason given)

And although boring, this is the most likely scenario of any "conspiracy" or cover-up regarding the events. Simply read the above theory, and then compare it to the other theories out there. Did our government screw up big time regarding the events leading up to 9/11? No question. Are they covering up the extent of those screw ups? You bet. Rightfully so, I'll add. Is the government now overcompensating for the screw ups? Absolutely. Is that the extent of the "conspiracy"? Almost assuredly.

Believing the most likely scenario to be true does not make one a "shill". It just means I've chosen the most likely theory over holograms, missiles, no planes, fake planes, and massive cover ups that include the media (local, national, and world-wide) and government (local, state, and national), that worked out an incredibly complex attack when a simple bomb in a building would have sufficed, but couldn't get any part of said operation right, despite having untold years to develop said plan.

Originally posted by secgovwiki

You may honestly believe this but it does not make it correct. What you are saying is : 9/11 = GWOT. What The Sane of The World are saying is 9/11 != GWOT.

You'll need to forgive me since I left my "9/11 conspiracy lingo" dictionary at home- what does GWOT stand for?

Do you want World War III? Do you want to see the world engulfed in nuclear warfare? Which US city are you willing to give up in the name of this INSANE policy? Where does preemptive war end? IN HISTORY's UNMARKED GRAVE OF DISCARDED LIES...BUSH told you what he was and you went right along with it. This lie is taking the nation down -- it is destroying the nation! In World War III, the USA will lose. Can we defeat China and Russia, maybe Venezuela and Brazil -- if they join in?

???huh? How the [censored] do you get that I want world war III and we're going to go to war with Brazil because I think the gov't is too incompetent to pull off any 9/11 inside job? And in case you didn't notice, Bush isn't in office anymore- Obama is.

Perhaps you should stop reading those damned fool websites and pick up a newspaper once in a while.

1350 feet of matter does not go away in ten seconds (by the circumstances provided by the government)! (And with absolute certainty -- not TWICE!) The collapse of the towers, inferno, and storm violate the Conservation of Energy. This is not disputable and can be proven with simple experiments.

For one, let's cut with the phony physics act already- we both know you have zero professional background in physics, at best you have a freshman understanding of what it actually means, and odds are you first found out what "conservation in energy" means from here and you're just blindly repeating what someone else said, so you're not fooling anybody. For another, there has not been a single experiment that simulates how the towers fell except by computer simulation, and those CONFIRM the progression of the collapse as being caused by fire induced structural failure and/or damage from the impact itself. For yet another, both buuildings had the exact same design, so if a specific set of conditions was enough to bring down one structure, then logically the exact same set of conditions in another structure of the exact same design would have the exact same results.

How did the towers come down? There is no acceptable response from the otherside because you have to craft more and more elaborate illusions to twist and alter the basic principles of physics.

Flowery prose, I must admit, but pointless. There isn't any one single explanation, but a number of them, all with their strengths and all with heir flaws...but I myself subscribe to the Purdue study. Since you're bragging "there is no acceptable response from the other side" I'll presume you're not just being a BS artist and are familiar with what it says and why it's incorrect...RIGHT?

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by secgovwiki

You may honestly believe this but it does not make it correct. What you are saying is : 9/11 = GWOT. What The Sane of The World are saying is 9/11 != GWOT.

You'll need to forgive me since I left my "9/11 conspiracy lingo" dictionary at home- what does GWOT stand for?

Do you want World War III? Do you want to see the world engulfed in nuclear warfare? Which US city are you willing to give up in the name of this INSANE policy? Where does preemptive war end? IN HISTORY's UNMARKED GRAVE OF DISCARDED LIES...BUSH told you what he was and you went right along with it. This lie is taking the nation down -- it is destroying the nation! In World War III, the USA will lose. Can we defeat China and Russia, maybe Venezuela and Brazil -- if they join in?

???huh? How the [censored] do you get that I want world war III and we're going to go to war with Brazil because I think the gov't is too incompetent to pull off any 9/11 inside job? And in case you didn't notice, Bush isn't in office anymore- Obama is.

Perhaps you should stop reading those damned fool websites and pick up a newspaper once in a while.

1350 feet of matter does not go away in ten seconds (by the circumstances provided by the government)! (And with absolute certainty -- not TWICE!) The collapse of the towers, inferno, and storm violate the Conservation of Energy. This is not disputable and can be proven with simple experiments.

For one, let's cut with the phony physics act already- we both know you have zero professional background in physics, at best you have a freshman understanding of what it actually means, and odds are you first found out what "conservation in energy" means from here and you're just blindly repeating what someone else said, so you're not fooling anybody. For another, there has not been a single experiment that simulates how the towers fell except by computer simulation, and those CONFIRM the progression of the collapse as being caused by fire induced structural failure and/or damage from the impact itself. For yet another, both buuildings had the exact same design, so if a specific set of conditions was enough to bring down one structure, then logically the exact same set of conditions in another structure of the exact same design would have the exact same results.

How did the towers come down? There is no acceptable response from the otherside because you have to craft more and more elaborate illusions to twist and alter the basic principles of physics.

Flowery prose, I must admit, but pointless. There isn't any one single explanation, but a number of them, all with their strengths and all with heir flaws...but I myself subscribe to the Purdue study. Since you're bragging "there is no acceptable response from the other side" I'll presume you're not just being a BS artist and are familiar with what it says and why it's incorrect...RIGHT?

Your ad hominem attacks betray your foolishness. Your ignorance betrays exactly who and what you are. You have no idea who I am but assume you do -- evidence of a prejudiced mind. There is no point arguing with people like you.

GWOT = Global War on Terror. Not conspiracy lingo -- lingo of the military-industrial complex.

If you believe 9/11 = GWOT and 1350 feet of matter can go away in ten seconds (by the circumstances provided for the government) you and your children and everyone like you deserve everything that has happened and everything that will happen.

reply to post by exponent


Hmm. Well your reply seems to debunk mine. You may have changed my beliefs today. Congratulations. Although the hole event even without evidence seems pretty sketchy. At best I "feel" like someone let this happen and at worst there's more then just incompetence involved.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

So you became an OS'er for spite?

Goodol'dave

Umm, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion, but no I haven't...and I need to point out I'm not an OS'er. I have pointed out many times I don't believe everythign the gov't tells me and I do agree there's a coverup...it's just that the truthers don't want to accept what I believe the coverup is because my conspiracy theory is boring.

If you're not an OS'er, and you believe there is a cover up, then that makes you a 'truther' too! Can't have it both ways!