unproportional personal flaming

I admit my opinion isnt always in line with some very conservative users of ATS, and i also admit that i dont watch CNN or Fox News. Yet discussion needs a certain restraint to be fruitful. I would feel obliged, Thomas Crowne, if you could redefine your meaning of life from "Flame Mokuhadzushi" to "Something Useful". If you dont like the news i post, go ahead, challenge them on grounds of facts, not on the grounds of your apparent personal dislike for the content of what i'm posting. If you are incapable of that, i suggest you change your opinion to mine. It's simply annoying, when reading an interesting thread, that i always have to read your uninspired intermezzos.

Thanks a lot for conforming to the regulations everyone else conforms to.

Could you provide a link to a specific post where TC was in violation of the TOU in flaming you?

You want to be into something useful? Sounds great. Lead the way. So far, all I've seen is junk. Your "opinion" isn't in line with Fox viewers? Nothing to do with that, pal. What it has to do with is you're no value added, only wanting to take jabs at things with no worthwile point or information. Rather than answer allegations that all you are is a no value added flamer, you feign the part of the victim.

www.digitalf8.com...
and
www.digitalf8.com...

Posted by TC:

Hell, I bet you drive down to Dachau every once in a while and walk around, dreaming of the good ol, Nazi days, don't you?

I'm sorry TC but that is not acceptable. It doesn't matter if I agree on Maku, or on your TC, but that comment is out of line...

Do you think? MAybe you are right. Maybe not, though, if you place it in context with the rest of what I said, and then place that in context with what has said. I find it totally reprehensible that the squirrel declares us to be the ones to have commited massacres. I find his continued attack on the one nation that seems to always defend others and after conquering territory, giving it back and helping repair any damage. I find it sickening that the weasel is posting from a town that is free because for decades the U.S. stood firm against the Soviet threat until it had to fold, and says the things he says about us, and does it non-stop and without any evidence. As a matter of fact, he writes his flaming posts in the face of evidence and fact. It isn't a clash of ideas or concepts, it is a disgust with the continuous heaping of garbage that provides no useful information or personal experience, only flame.

In light of what he says, how he staunchly attacks us, defends the Iraqi regime that did commit massacres and other atrocities against humanity and bemoans the fact that the troops busy with liberation of the people couldn't stop the organized sacking of museums, I believe my statement is correct and stands as it is. I have walked the pathways around Dachau, Zion, I have sen the ovens and the bullet holes, and I'll bet you the emotions I have at that place are different than the ones this creature has, just as his feelings of the war and the Iraqi people are different. He has given me any other reason to think otherwise.

If i get you correctly, you argue that your opinion is better than mine and that you are therefor entitled to insult me. That isnt the case. Your opinion isnt better, and im not posting anything racist, so you have to respect my and other people's opinions...


Dachau is a symbol for the failure of humanity, for intolerance ... and that is what you are doing here.




[Edited on 21-4-2003 by Mokuhadzushi]

I'm soory but I have to side here with TC. Moko is using every post to blame the USA for one little thing or another.

it is his right to post articles expressing opinions such as that, however it is against the rules for TC to personally insult him like he is

"no, you can't have a divergent opinion, you are horrible horrible person who deserves to die and go to hell, now shutup and conform with the rest of us"

i think both parties involved are dumb for even having to flame each other. TC could have just as easily dropped the thing as moku could have not said stuff. the level of a users value isn't determined by which news channel they watch! it's what they contribute, and teach to others, even if it is something bad. this board wasn't intended for petty squabbling! it's to show people the faults and secrets of the world today. discuss and uncover conspiracy, and unviel the truth behind it all. sadly many of us lose sight of this value, or never held it in the first place....

Having just read this quote below I think that TC is not only imaginative and creative in his mild abuse but makes his point well. Zion I don't see what your problem is...

Originally posted by Zion Mainframe
Posted by TC:

Hell, I bet you drive down to Dachau every once in a while and walk around, dreaming of the good ol, Nazi days, don't you?

I'm sorry TC but that is not acceptable. It doesn't matter if I agree on Maku, or on your TC, but that comment is out of line...

I read the threads that Zion supplied, and while TC does express himself in a very imaginitive way, its as he says, its in the context of what he is saying in how he is saying it. I am not going to get into the context of the discussion, however I do not believe TC is in violation of the TOU. He is expressing his opinion, if he feels Moku is a moron then that is ok for him to express it. If he was using foul language, or refferring to Moku in a way that is inappropiate, I would agree he was in violation, however he is not. By inappropiate I mean, you could refer to someone as a retard, or their mother as a whore etc etc... These are examples of what would be considered violations of the TOU.

Personally I do not call people names. I dont refer to anyone as being a morn, or pathetic creature or what ever. And while there are rules that are in place they are meant to act as guidelines. Not rigidly enforced laws. When we began the take back ats act, many people, including some who are responding on this thread, began crying that ats was being turned into a police state, because we offered to put into place some structure. I find it absurd that those same people are now saying that TC is violating the rules, that the board is not being run like a police state.

When you post the kind of stuff that Moko does,expect to get flamed.I thought that was why he posts most of the stuff he does.Most of the time his post are taking jabs at the U.S. or the military,I find it kinda funny that he comes here crying when he gets punched in the nose.
Or in other words don't dish it out if you can't take it.

well put nyeff, thats the way i feel about it. if you're not confident enough in your opinion to take the fallout please keep it to yourself.

I have to chime in here myself...

Moko, you have a tendency to totally disregard others interests or feelings in preference to your own. It is bad form to get your panties in a wad if someone calls you on the carpet for it.

I'm not gonna side in with either party here as they're both in the wrong ...

As far as I understand ...

www.digitalf8.com...

That ^^^ Applie's to everyone ...

TC,

Your a mod. If you really really really really really can't stand Moku's post's and feel that they add absolutley nothing of value to ATS, then please delete them. Two wrong's don't make a right. I know your a very intelligent person, so start acting it in this case. No need to stoop to a lower level like that ...

if you flame bait, expect to get flamed...

I'm pretty sure atleast most of us at one point have personally insulted another here at ATS. We just sometimes get so deep in a debate that we forget we may personally attack someone. As I'm sure most of you already realize, it's very difficult to truly express yourself through typing and sometimes it takes many posts in one thread to eventually "somewhat" get your point across.
When you are "new" here, you don't really know some of the personalities you'll be dealing with, therefore it may be easier for you to feel insulted by those with very STRONG opinions on certain topics.
TC is one of those strong voices here for our America. If you say something against "america" then you can be assured he'll be there defending it with very strong words.
2 things here-you are new and he is "TC" I can't speak for you but he's an adult and I truly doubt it was his "intentions" to make you feel personally attacked by him. It takes both parties to continue to debate and knowing all the well where it's leading you.
I think it's unfair to personally make a thread about a mod or other member because you feal this way-I'm almost certain if he were not a mod, you would have never made this thread-you simply used his authority to do so and to me-I take that as more of a personal attack then what was said in the other threads.
Magestica

I want to thank you all that saw to it to stand by me. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the support.

To those who saw fit to chastise me, (Zion, e-non, P-C, etc...), I want to thank you too, and just as much. I feel as though I've let you guys down, but please, let me explain:

I forget sometimes that there's that word "moderator" next to my name, sometimes. That word means alot, and there are alot of times I've let Simon down because I've forgotten. He entrusted me with the task because he thought I had the sense to handle the position, and many times I've not measured up, and every time it is because of this type of circumstance. I want to apologize to Simon as well, and especially to him. You know what? I don't even know Simon's political/war-on-terror views. This is his website, and he has kept that to himself. He maintains his focus on this site and doesn't even engage in this psuedo-political sidetrack. I wish I had his sense.

I have another personality here, one that I should use when engaging in such arguments, but I never take the time to do that. My usual intention is to come on the site and see if there is anything I need to do as a mod, but I find myself reading and engaging. That is my fault because I use this place to get my news. The reason is people here are all over the world and it saves me time from having to go to international news sites. In a nutshell, I've become lazy. But that is all beside the point, Simon entrusted me with the task of being a moderator, and some people here feel that a moderator should not engage in conversation as others may. I should learn that is expected by enough of my fellow members to use my "alter-ego" so as to draw a line between me, the human and me the mod.

When someone flames another individual, it is obvious, and that other individual responds accordingly. All can understand that. But how about when one makes a career out of flaming a nation? When one brings no useful information, when one does nothing but make wild and baseless assertions, knowing that they are totally beyond defense or even protocol, just what do you call that? When the flames are in a manner that any normal and rational citizen of the nation under attack feels as if the assaults are baseless and only to provoke and incite, what is that called?

I came here because a colleague told me about this place. Simon had information about x-craft here and, along with other things, I was interested in that. Ironically enough, this was also a conspiracy site, which was right up my alley. I've been reading and studying up on Tri-Lats, CFR's, and Illuminati's way before the internet came along; back when people had to actually publish books to get their information out into public reach. Many of you may find that amazing, but there were books on these topics before Gates came along to allow any ol' lunatic create a website! Here is where my conspiratorial world became deisrupted:

Shortly after I found this great site, some jackasses comandeered some planes and altered the lives of every American in just a few short minutes. Innocent lives were snuffed, and other innocent lives were thrown into the pits of grief and despair. Those of us that weren't directly touched by the tragedy were enraged on behalf of those who were. Since then, the conspiratorial world hasn't been quite the same. But almost from the outset there were people who were saying that we were to fault. I'm not talking about on the news, I'm talking here. My dear ATS friends that reside in NYC and the surrounding area would come to the board and read other peoples' views of how we are at fault because we are arrogant, because we support Israel, because our economic system works and has spread across the world in the faces of the have-nots, etc., while they hadn't even found out if maybe any of their friends or family had been killed. This has since pised me off, and I've been on the lookout for stupid, moronic posters that post out of hatred for the U.S. instead of decent, arguable positions ever since.

Let me clarify a couple points as to who I am.

I am an American. When I say that, I mean that I am an American in that I stand for liberty, justice and the pursuit of happiness. I believe that everybody should have the right to do whatever they want as long as it is within the boundaries of the ethics of the Divine Creator and does not interfere with anybody else's rights.
I believe that everybody has the right to make as much of themselves as they can. We are not all born into the same position in life, but it has been proven time and time again that adversity builds strength and comfort builds weakness, so quit complaining and use your strengths while you have them.
I believe that every nation has the right to follow their own way, their own beliefs and their own destiny, as long as it doesn't harm others or violate the sovereignty of other nations.

Now, Having said that, I do believe there is a human conspiracy (apart from my religious beliefs) that are attempting to usurp wealth and power of all nations and enslave all people. I believe that my nation, as well as otehrs, are controlled and/or coherced by this conspiracy, and I believe that these people work IAW teh law on occassions and on most occassions in the U.S., work within the law under our noses because of our ignorance of the actual, constitutional law and the laws of nations. In short, we perish because of lack of knowledge.

There may be many reasaons to be concerned about the war on terror, there may be many things that should alert us all, not only in America but in other nations as well. The war is a just war, and it is necessary, but it may be used as both a tool and a smokescreen by the "Agenda" to further its own causes. Some of us could be figuring out this scene, but some of us, I for one, spend too much time responding to simple-mided and uneducated people whose single message is "America=Evil. Bush=Satan".
These people, who have no other purpose otehr than to say these two things, add nothing to any of the original reasons of this board's creation. And people like me either wander off in search of a bnoard that hasn't lost direction or spend all their time jousting with morons that have no clue and aren't worth the time. Yes, Moku, I am calling you a moron, and I do so without shame. But I also call myself a moron for bothering to engage in conversation with you. Which one is the worse moron? Me, obviously.

Or, maybe I'm the only moron. It might be that Moku isn't a moron, so to speak, but one of them. He and those like him have kept people from engaging in a true and earnest search for the truth by keeping us at odds with political and national debate and argument. Because of people like him, I've found myself defending a politician (Bush) instead of critically scrutinizing him. I've been so busy explaining why people like Moku is wrong, I've probably overlooked wrong-doings by the one who controls the White House.
Moku isn't the moron, he's the enemy, I'm the moron.