Illinois illegally seizes bees resistant to Roundup; kills remaining queens

reply to post by ofhumandescent


It's he, thank you very much.

Originally posted by HIWATT

Originally posted by jssaylor2007
1. Roundup aka Glyphosphate kills plant matter not insects, so the bees couldnt be resistant to that chemical.

LOL!

Ok pal, If RoundUp only kills plant matter, I have a suggestion.

Go down to your local MalWart and purchase a jug of it. Have a seat on your porch with a glass and let us all know how you feel after a few minutes!

This guy looks like he's getting ready for a tour of Fukushima.. it doesn't harm bees though!




Jeez.......

Ok city boy,

Roundup by itself is not dangerous, nice picture, but i bet there is a hell of a lot more chemicals in that tank mix than just round up.

We get roundup in 500 gallon shuttles, and i have taken my fair share of Roundup to the mouth/face/eyes, and I am still doing fine.

Roundup doesnt worry me, its the other chemicals that will get you.

reply to post by ofhumandescent

My understanding is no conspiracy, that if a hive of normal, regular bees are okay and the hive is healthy than they are left alone.

Exactly! Every state has bee inspectors, and they are responsible for ensuring that honey bees are safe and free from diseases. Our blue certification paper states that our bees are healthy, we are responsible bee keepers, and they will not be back for another year.


And yes, they are furry.

Best not to shoo them, they will ignore you if you ignore them. I do however, find it fascinating to watch one while it's pollinating a flower.

reply to post by HIWATT

Go down to your local MalWart and purchase a jug of it. Have a seat on your porch with a glass and let us all know how you feel after a few minutes!

Are you advocating that we imbibe a known HERBICIDE? That's pretty ignorant of you. The label itself warns not to ingest.

Roundup is not a PESTICIDE. However, to stay on topic, Ingram may have been "researching" how his bees were pollinating freshly sprayed flowers with roundup, and to see the toxicity effects on the rest of his hives. He has never released any results, so this is all just speculation anyway.

reply to post by Druid42


Question for you then...

What is the State of Illinois Ag people doing about CCD? Obviously there are multiple health threats to honey bee colonies and the folks trying to do the right thing have to be vigilant against all threats. However, burning these bees sounds more like a feel-good band aid on the Titanic rather than executing the full mission statement of their office. If the disease is so darn bad, why did they wait months to do the 'right' thing?

I do not know personally about the guy who lost his bees. He may have been doing a poor job of animal husbandry. He may have been on to something. Point is, no one will know for sure now. And to claim government agencies and therefore their employees and policies are free from the machinations of large corporations like Monsanto, as some claim, is a bit naive.

The look of modern agriculture is in great part a function of companies like Monsanto. They have vested interest in keeping it on a profitable course as any company would. The rub with modern agriculture versus other businesses, is Mother Nature is still a variable you cannot predict. Non-predictably is a nasty word to non-farming shareholders and Wall Street in general. So, if you as a mega-agriculture-company can lessen that variability, all the better for the bottom line. And to assume those striving to increase that profit will always operate completely along moral and ethical lines is fool hearty.

Granted your friendly neighborhood Bee Inspector may be good at heart just as the Bee Keeper, but the world in which they work and the rules they follow are not always so. A conspiracy theory it is not. A fact it is.

Double Post

reply to post by ABNARTY

What is the State of Illinois Ag people doing about CCD? Obviously there are multiple health threats to honey bee colonies and the folks trying to do the right thing have to be vigilant against all threats. However, burning these bees sounds more like a feel-good band aid on the Titanic rather than executing the full mission statement of their office. If the disease is so darn bad, why did they wait months to do the 'right' thing?

CCD is a different, and unknown beast. There is little the IDoA can do to change the outcome of CCD, or any state, for that matter, until we truly understand what causes CCD. I'm sure they report their findings to the USDA, and beekeepers worldwide are working towards understanding what causes CCD. I have my own theories.

CCD is occurring worldwide, but in most cases foulbrood is promptly destroyed or at least restricted to a local. Ingram was doing great harm to other colonies of bees in the area, but fortunately it was during the wintering months, and there wasn't a lot of bees foraging at the time. The IDoA stepped in during peak pollen flow, to prevent the spread of an outbreak of foulbrood. If they didn't take the 15 infected hives, soon, all his hives would have foulbrood, as well as neighboring hives. You do realize a bee can forage for up to 10 miles, and possibly infecting any plant within that radius?

Bees don't forage during the winter months, so there was little chance of the disease spreading, however, the inspectors did check the status of his apiary several times during that time. They gave him multiple chances to comply with agricultural regulations.

reply to post by Druid42


Winter time. OK. Got it.

What do you think is causing CCD?

reply to post by ABNARTY


Imports of honey from other countries, namely China, who can produce honey cheaper and thus make it unprofitable for domestic beekeepers to produce honey. That's not the cause, that's the reason for. Let me explain......

Commercial beekeepers are different from the likes of me. I have a small apiary to tend to. They have hundreds of hives. They used to make a profit from their honey production, pre-2001, before the advent of CCD. Free trade agreements let the Chinese import honey into the US marketplace, undercutting domestic producers, so they had to turn to other aspects of income generation.

What did the domestic beekeepers start doing? They got into the VERY lucrative field of crop pollination. The commercial beekeeper in the US no longer was making a profit from their honey production, so they started boxing up hives and trucking them to different fields in different locations across the US, and the farmers paid them handsomely for doing that during pollen flow.

Commercial beekeepers typical have their hives in California during Almond crop pollination, box them back up and truck them to Florida for the orange tree pollination, then up to Georgia for pollinating the peach trees. By the end of the year, the hives are stressed from so much movement, and have produced enough honey to survive from pollinating so many different crops, but have sampled so many different pesticides from so many different fields that it is upsetting their ability to naturally adapt.

Bees are insects. They have hives, and can survive in any local and be immune after a few generations of any pesticide. Their ability to genetically adapt to their environment is explained by the fact that they have been around for millions of years. The average life of a worker bee is three months, so you should be able to see that a hive is a constantly reproducing organism, and the queen is the one responsible for that.

Tainted pollen (treated Monsanto grain) from many different crops across the US, is arriving back at the hive, and the queen bee, who is fed by the drone bees, are feeding her what the worker bees bring back to the hive.

The hives that can't deal with the influx of unnatural contaminants go CCD. The hives that can survive, do.

It's startling to know that queen bees are being super-ceded (replaced) about 4 times a season. That means they are replacing "their leader" every few months. It takes a fresh queen 27 days to start laying, so what I'm seeing is with CCD, is the queen becomes tainted, she gets replaced, and the new queen is replaced a month later. A healthy hive has a queen that lasts at least 3 years, and on the outset, 7 years of productive laying.

It's already proven that a CCD hive leaves the queen dead in the hive, with only a few dead bees behind. The rest of the hive just "disappears". IMO, the hive creates a new queen, and she swarms with the rest of the hive, due to the hive being contaminated from excess pesticides/herbicides/foreign material in the hive.

reply to post by Druid42


You know what? That's not a bad idea.

I knew that there was a difference between the colonies who were static and those on the move for commercial purposes. However, I was unaware of bees' adaptability. One can see how all the moving around and different chemicals plays havoc with that. It seems the bees have a normal mechanism in place to handle a tainted colony but that is being "tripped" far too frequently for them to do much else.

I was not unaware of the imports from China either. Although it is amazing that would even be profitable for the Chinese. The cost of shipping food is greater than the cost of shipping computer parts. The bee keepers in China must be making pennies in order to keep the price reasonable on the shelf.

reply to post by ABNARTY

that is being "tripped" far too frequently for them

Well said.

Imagine if humans moved every month or so, and the stress we would be under. Bees, like humans, prefer to remain in a local. Keeping them in one location keeps their genetics strong. Otherwise, they are competing to survive against natural selection, and fighting the contamination of "unnatural" herbicides/pesticides. CCD is the end result of human manipulation of honey bees.

oh this makes me so mad.. grrr

Makes me wish that the words police state were in fact vigilante state. Someone needs to start knocking these people off.

reply to post by jssaylor2007


I can actually second that claim, I spent a whole summer doing yard work on a mine site and my tank once cracked leading to round up going all down my back and legs, there was a tingling feeling but no severe reaction. A quick wash fixed it.

Ok, so what keeps the government from declaring someone to have foul brood when they really don't, and destroying their hives?

Where is the check?

reply to post by hadriana


It's not the government, it's each state's Department of Agriculture. The DoA from each state gives reports to the USDA. It's regulations.

The beekeepers and the bee inspectors from each state are a friendly group. Each specific state polices their own beehives. This is not on a federal level at all, still at the state level. Beekeeping is one of the FEW things that the government keeps it's nose out of; as well should be.

Originally posted by Phage
You realize that the bees were infected right?

So says a potentially bought-and-paid-for agent.

You realize that Monsanto's patent on glyphosphate expired in the US twelve years ago and that it is now being manufactured and sold by a large number of companies in the US and abroad, right?

The point being? Surely you don't think Mon$anto might want to corner the market on bees that DON'T curl up and die from exposure to Roundup? Naaah, that would be so shark-like.

Originally posted by Druid42
[...] Infected colonies eventually die, which is why the BEST solution is to burn the whole hive. [...]
I want to know where the "illegally" part comes in. They told him months in advance to destroy his hives, that they were inspected and had a disease, he didn't comply, so they removed the dangerous hives as they should do.

They removed them, presumably by truck.

Was the truck hermetically sealed?

Wasn't there risk of spreading infected bees further afield?

If the best solution is to BURN the hive, why didn't they just burn them in situ? Why truck them away? Something's smelling awfully strange.

Originally posted by jssaylor2007

Originally posted by HIWATT

Originally posted by jssaylor2007
1. Roundup aka Glyphosphate kills plant matter not insects, so the bees couldnt be resistant to that chemical.

LOL!

Ok pal, If RoundUp only kills plant matter, I have a suggestion.

Go down to your local MalWart and purchase a jug of it. Have a seat on your porch with a glass and let us all know how you feel after a few minutes!

This guy looks like he's getting ready for a tour of Fukushima.. it doesn't harm bees though!




Jeez.......

Ok city boy,

Roundup by itself is not dangerous, nice picture, but i bet there is a hell of a lot more chemicals in that tank mix than just round up.

We get roundup in 500 gallon shuttles, and i have taken my fair share of Roundup to the mouth/face/eyes, and I am still doing fine.

Roundup doesnt worry me, its the other chemicals that will get you.

I'm not a "city boy" dumbass, and I've worked on farms in my time as well as a vineyard just these past few years, so I know about this chemical and how nasty it is.

That photo is 100% accurate. You don't handle this stuff unless you're protected. Hell, if there is even the SLIGHTEST wind out, it doesn't get sprayed.

So don't patronise me, FRIENDO.

You made a totally asinine comment where you intimated RoundUp was only harmful to weeds. Which is flat out FALSE.

Originally posted by Druid42
reply to post by HIWATT

 

Go down to your local MalWart and purchase a jug of it. Have a seat on your porch with a glass and let us all know how you feel after a few minutes!

Are you advocating that we imbibe a known HERBICIDE? That's pretty ignorant of you. The label itself warns not to ingest.

Roundup is not a PESTICIDE. However, to stay on topic, Ingram may have been "researching" how his bees were pollinating freshly sprayed flowers with roundup, and to see the toxicity effects on the rest of his hives. He has never released any results, so this is all just speculation anyway.

"WE" ?

I was responding to jssaylor2007 not you. And yes I suggested he "imbibe" some roundup as he suggested that it is only harmful to weeds.

If that's the case, he should have no issue with chugging back a swill... and neither should you, if you're as dumb as he is.

I'm ignorant? That's hilarious. This # is bad for you. Period. If you dispute that YOU are the ignorant one.

Actually it's worse that that, you're wilfully ignorant which makes you a FOOL

reply to post by Druid42


I see some folks have never had to deal with disagreeing with BureauRats

So you believe the governments story implicitly with out any proof? The Illinois government are notorious liars. If the bee keeper disputed the inspectors claims they should have had to prove it before they could destroy his property.

It's amazing how many people will just take the governments word for it and condemn someone as guilty... yeah the government would never do something that dastardly despite their track record of doing just that... Sigh!