Google Earth proves Muhammad-Islam

Now before everyone starts jumping into panic mode let me give you the background on what I am going to explain.

Muhammad was ordered by God to build a mosque in Sanaa, Yemen which was to face the new Qibla in Mecca, Saudi Arabia. Muhammad did not know which direction to face for construction and he was given divine revelation to point in the direction of the peak of Mount Deyn and the face of the mosque should be constructed as such. Now why you say the peak? Well turns out the peak is on the same line on the surface of the earth as is the Qibla in Mecca, Saudi Arabia.

Qibla (the square building in center of Mecca mosque): en.wikipedia.org...
Great Mosque of Sanaa, Yemen: en.wikipedia.org...
archnet.org...
Additional history of Sanaa: en.wikipedia.org...

The Great mosque of Sanaa was one of the first mosques built outside of Mecca and Medina
Source: UNESCO (whc.unesco.org...)

Criterion (vi): Sana'a is directly and tangibly associated with the history of the spread of Islam in the early years of the Hegira. The Great mosque of Sana'a, built in year 6 of Hegira, is known as the first mosque built outside Mecca and Medina.The Old City of Sana'a has contributed to and played a major role in Yemeni, Arab and Islamic World history through the contributions of historical Yemeni figures including Al Hassan B. Ahmed Al Hamdany, Ahamed Al Razy and Al Shawkany.

Well now lets see how accurate Muhammad was in constructing the new mosque in Sanaa, yemen. Before we begin we need to know the locations of our targets in Google Earth/Maps.

On Google Maps the location of the Qibla in Mecca: 21.422497,39.826203
On Google Maps the location of Great Mosque of Sanaa: 15.353106, 44.214925
Mount Deyn: 15°35'49.63"N,44° 2'46.47"E

Now we need to calculate a line from the beginning to end points. We can use google earth/maps or another calculator which will enable precise comparisons which I am about to show.

Beginning Point (Great Mosque of Sanaa: 15.353106, 44.214925):


Aiming at peak of Mount Deyn: (15°35'49.63"N,44° 2'46.47"E)
Flat Google maps view:


3d Google Earth View of Mount Deyn:



Now there are various methods to calculate a line from two points on a spherical surface (earth is more precisely and oblate ellipsoid of revolution, will get to that in a minute). The two basic methods are to follow the rhumb lines or the Great circle routes

A rhumb line is a a line crossing all meridians of longitude at the same angle, i.e. a path derived from a defined initial bearing (en.wikipedia.org...). Basically a rhumb line is the same as those straight lines you see on a Mercator projection map.

The great circle route is the intersection of a plane through the center of a sphere. This is what aircraft use to circumnavigate (en.wikipedia.org...). It is the shortest path that can be taken between two points on a sphere and is more accurate for directions.

I will now demonstrate the line between the mosque in Sanaa and the Mosque in Mecca using both methods:
Website for geodesic calculator: www.movable-type.co.uk...

Rhumb line Route (beginning and endpoints are both mosques):


Rhumb line Route zoomed to the top of mount Deyn (beginning and endpoints are both mosques):


Great Circle Route (beginning and endpoints are both mosques):


Great Circle Route zoomed to the top of mount Deyn (beginning and endpoints are both mosques):


It is generally accepted in modern calculations that the great circle route is what is generally the method to face the Qibla. As we can see using either methodology that when we face through the mountain we will be relatively close to the Qibla. In fact if you aim precisely at the peak of Mount Deyn you will land smack dab in the middle of the Qibla, which follows the great circle route exactly. Try it for yourself on Google maps or earth.

No human without extremely precise maps could determine such directions without divine revelation. Now there were many other people earlier who had determined the size of the earth (Eratosthenes), made relatively accurate maps:

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

Lets look at some reference maps up until the time period of Muhammad (Born: April 26, 570 AD, Mekka
Died: June 8, 632 AD, Medina)

440BCE:


Pomponius Mela (c.43 AD):


Arab cartographers really did not get better until after the time of Muhammad:
en.wikipedia.org...

An important influence in the development of cartography was the patronage of the Abbasid caliph, al-Ma'mun, who reigned from 813 to 833

As you can see arabic cartography did not really take a hold until after 800AD:
en.wikipedia.org...

Therefore, Muhammad did not have access to any sophisticated maps and his construction directions were given via divine intervention.

Rebuttals:

Rebuttal 1:
Muhammad was a cartographer: There is no evidence that he made any maps or devoted his life to map making

Rebuttal 2:

As claimed, if you draw a straight line starting at the mosque in Sana'a/Yemen to the Ka'aba in Mecca, it does indeed hit the South-Eastern wall of the Ka'aba almost exactly perpendicular. However, the mosque in Sana'a does not seem to be precisely aligned with the Ka'aba. As indicated by the yellow lines, the whole building has no wall that corresponds in any way, with the direction of the Ka'aba or its walls. Without knowing how the rock located in the mosque are aligned, with regard to Mecca and the Ka'aba, but it is unlikely that they as the builders have done a very poor job indeed as the mosque is poorly 'aligned'.

wikiislam.net...

He is saying that the walls are not lining up perfectly and exactly perpendicular to the Kaaba in Mecca. Well blame it on the construction. Muhammad was given instruction to build it aiming precisely at the peak of Mount Deyn. His workers did not do a good job of lining it up to 100% spec, but it still does not negate the fact that Muhammad knew that the direction of the Kaaba in Mecca was a line exactly through the Peak of mount Deyn.

Rebuttal 3:

The connecting line between the Ka'aba and the Sana'a mosque does cross the top of the Dyan as has been claimed by Muslims. However, it misses the peak of the mountain (as modelled in Google Earth and indicated by the red arrow) by about 100 yards. This might be within the tolerance of Google Earth's precision (elevation exaggeration factor 1, i.e. elevations to scale), but we must note that the claimants themselves are using Google Earth to 'prove' this miracle, and so too are we. Now we will show what happens if we let the line cross the exact center of the peak:

wikiislam.net...


He is saying that if you actually do aim it at exactly the peak of Mount deyn that you miss it by 2 miles. While this is true, the peak of mount deyn was probably the closest accurate referece point that Muhammad could instruct his construction workers to build the mosque and aim for. What did you want him to do? Go to the top of mount deyn hold a flag at the exact location and tell his workers to aim for it? That would be too hard and impractical not to mention how could you see a person up on the peak of the mountain that far away?

Rebuttal 4:
There are other mosques that line up with the Qibla:
wikiislam.net...

Islamabad/Shah Faisal mosque
Al-Manamah/Central Mosque
Riadh/Al-Jasser mosque
Kabul/Unknown mosque
Kairo/Mohamed Ali Mosque
Adan/Unknown mosque
London/Central Mosque

Lets take a look at thes mosques individually shall we?

Islamabad/Shah Faisal mosque: Was made in 1986. LOL is this guy desperate? (en.wikipedia.org...)

Al-Manamah/Central Mosque: mosque was built by the late Sheikh Isa ibn Salman Al Khalifa in 1987 (en.wikipedia.org...)

Riadh/Al-Jasser mosque: could not find information on this mosque

Kabul/Unknown mosque
Two mosques in kabul:
en.wikipedia.org... (made in 1893)
en.wikipedia.org... (made in 1960s)

Kairo/Mohamed Ali Mosque
Made between 1830 and 1848 (en.wikipedia.org...)

Adan/Unknown mosque: Could not find information about which mosque he was referring too:

London/Central Mosque: was made in 1978 LOL. Is this guy really that desperate? ( en.wikipedia.org... )


We had excellent maps in the 19th century and upwards; I have effectively destroyed this guys rebuttals with Facts.

My source of inspiration for this thread was this video:


Hope you all enjoy this thread

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
Cool details, but I've got to disagree with the title/interpretation of the thread - all it would seem to prove to me is that Muhammad got the information from somewhere, and if you're acknowledging a divine foot in the door, then you're also aware God is not the only 'divine' intelligence.

And remember, even the muslims themselves acknowledge Muhammad was previously deceived by Satan, in the matter of the Satanic Verses that were originally included in the Quran.

So, is it possible man may not have been able to do this himself? Yes.

Is it also possible the assistance came from a source opposing the actual will of God, and seeking to establish a false religion? Again, yes.

Take care.

reply to post by Praetorius

And remember, even the muslims themselves acknowledge Muhammad was previously deceived by Satan, in the matter of the Satanic Verses that were originally included in the Quran.

Why would Satan want Muhammad to make a new mosque facing mecca? Would that not be leading him on the right path? If it were Satan giving information to him would it not be the wrong direction?

God is not the only 'divine' intelligence.

God is the only divine intelligence and he prescribes and gives intelligence to all his creation including Satan and humans etc.., but none are divine.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

Why would Satan want Muhammad to make a new mosque facing mecca? Would that not be leading him on the right path? If it were Satan giving information to him would it not be the wrong direction?

Not if Islam is meant to distract from and oppose God's actual prior work and revelations. Islam has always been a direct challenge to the continued legitimacy of both judaism and christianity. Satan, or any other being working in opposition to the actual will of God would of course want to make it look as good as possible.

God is the only divine intelligence and he prescribes and gives intelligence to all his creation including Satan and humans etc.., but none are divine.

This is an issue of semantics. My point is that spiritual opposition to God or his will has its own high levels of intelligence.

reply to post by Praetorius

Islam has always been a direct challenge to the continued legitimacy of both judaism and christianity

Islam is an Abrahamic religion just like Judaism and Christianity.

In fact Jesus is mentioned more times in the Qur'an than in the bible and Muslims believe that Jesus will return

Satan, or any other being working in opposition to the actual will of God would of course want to make it look as good as possible.

But it does not apply to this example as the end result was the construction of a mosque facing Kaaba and spreading more Islam...

I see where you are confused:
You think Islam is satanic and therefore anything facing mecca was satanic inspiration? That is clearly not true

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

islam is an abrahamic religion just like Judaism and christianity.

In fact Jesus is mentioned more times in the Quran than in the bible and Muslims belive that Jesus will return

Abrahamic religion, yes. Just like judaism and christianity - no. Fundamental disagreements on a range of founding doctrines and implications, and direct controversion of both.

But it does not apply to this example as the end result was the construction of a mosque facing kaaba and spreading more Islam...

That's exactly why it applies. Sharing of this knowledge would lend aid to a religion that is at odds with the true faith. That's plenty of motive for this to be shared accurately.

You think Islam is satanic and therefore anything facing mecca was satanic inspiration? That is clearly not true

You misunderstand me - what I'm saying is that God did not have to be the author of this miraculous information being provided to Muhammad, as you're saying he was.

Well, the INFALLIBLE pope(s) DID say the sun goes round the earth in a circle...
which is what he(they) would decree if they were sent by the devil to discredit christianity

there are some pretty wild numbers built into some buildings that man ought not to have known if you put faith in the historical narratives detailed by these religions

but the fact is they had detailed abilities way before any of these pundits like Jesus and Mohammad appeared on the scene ...
funny they didn't know :

Strange Artifacts: The Celtic Cross
Is a Celtic Cross a scientific instrument as well as a sacred symbol?
It allows the navigation of the planet without a time piece, the discovery of Natures mathematics and the construction of ancient sacred buildings using astrology. The philosophy behind all the great religions rest within what the cross reveals. The ancient scientific and spiritual wisdom that has shaped our past and still influences our future is part of a forgotten and often hidden system that reaches back beyond the current established religions, further than Ancient Egypt into an age where Mankind lived in harmony with Nature.
Resurrected by Crichton E M Miller in 1997 the ancient working cross has been awarded two Patents

www.world-mysteries.com...

reply to post by Praetorius

Abrahamic religion, yes. Just like judaism and christianity - no. Fundamental disagreements on a range of founding doctrines and implications, and direct controversion of both.

Then why do you lump judaism and christianity into one?

Do you know how many different sects of christianity there are?

What if they are all satanic and there is one 'right' path?

Sharing of this knowledge would lend aid to a religion that is at odds with the true faith.

Muslims believe the true faith is Islam. You on the other hand do not. What you said above is your opinion and does not reflect the billion muslims.

It still does not deny the fact that this message came from God/Allah (according to a billion muslims)

You misunderstand me - what I'm saying is that God did not have to be the author of this miraculous information being provided to Muhammad, as you're saying he was.

According to Muslims it came from God.

Acoorinding to you it came from Satan.

Please provide evidence that would make it more likely it came from Satan than God. A billion Muslims pray in the direction of Kaaba.

Just like judaism and christianity - no.

Yes actually, Muslims believe in both Jesus and Moses...

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

Then why do you lump judaism and christianity into one?

Primarily because that's how they're addressed (for the most part, in my personal view) by Islam itself, with believers of either being "the people of the book". Christianity is essentially a sect of judaism, despite its own significant differences. Christianity acknowledges the full truth of its parent faith, whereas Islam disagrees with both.

Do you know how many different sects of christianity there are?

What if they are all satanic and there is one 'right' path?

I'll definitely allow that, but my own personal view on salvation is quite different from the usual view - I believe there are true believers in pretty much any and all groups (including Islam), and they are always vastly outnumbered by those who merely identify themselves as this or that.

Muslims believe the true faith is Islam. You on the other hand do not. What you said above is your opinion and does not reflect the billion muslims.

True. And likewise, what you said above will also not reflect the opinion of a few billion christians.

It still does not deny the fact that this message came from God/Allah (according to a billion muslims)

Granted - and just like with the other disagreements jews, muslims, and christians have, here we are.

According to Muslims it came from God.

Acoorinding to you it came from Satan.

Please provide evidence that would make it more likely it came from Satan than God. A billion Muslims pray in the direction of Kaaba.

Evidence? There's no evidence either way, it's just going to boil down to which faith you think came from God, and then figure from that view who the information more likely came from. I'm not aware of evidence that would suffice to settle it one way or the other regardless as the only thing we can establish is that the information may or may not have been ascertainable by man alone - it's sheer opinion after that point, unless you want this to just turn into a theological "Which religion is the true religion?" thread, and I don't know if you want that here or not?

Yes actually, Muslims believe in both Jesus and Moses...

Yeah...and? They also believe Jesus was never actually crucified, and believe that christians and jews are wrong about most of the root truths of their faiths. They disagree with the christian faith just as I disagree with theirs. That doesn't mean I don't love them or won't be kind to them, it just means we're on different sides of certain fences.

reply to post by Praetorius

Christianity acknowledges the full truth of its parent faith, whereas Islam disagrees with both.

Islam disagrees with certain things that were corrupted. Islam believes in the Original gospels which were unaltered, non corrupted. There are 300 different versions of the bible but Islam still says that only the true unaltered versions are correct and everything else is false.

Anyway you are diverting a bit, now what do you think about the accuracy of the miracle.

well the Op did a nice job on exposing something a little mo solid then most religious proofs usually present.


I can't say god told him because my landlord also talks to god he says and he is often wrong mostly
though he did hang a door so the latch lined up with the jam


but I think his wife was the source of the wisdom that accomplished that feat.

Religions are mere ladders, not structures to inhabit. Only the most brave, will step off the top of the ladder leaving all religions forever behind. Thankfully there are so many "ladders" as there are so many varied personalities throughout the world. I dare not command God how to conduct Its business by thinking I have all the answers locked in any one Way (ladder). Those that do so sadden me.

The Gospel of Barnabas was little known outside academic circles until recent times, when a number of Muslims have taken to publishing it to argue against the orthodox Christian conception of Jesus. It generally resonates better with existing Muslim views than with Christianity:[34] it foretells the coming of Muhammad by name; rather than describing the crucifixion of Jesus, it describes him being raised up into heaven,[35] similar to the description of Elijah in 2 Kings, Chapter 2; and it calls Jesus a "prophet" whose mission was restricted to the "house of Israel".

en.wikipedia.org...

in support of the Op's contention that Muslims may have some credibility as a legit religion vs JewdaoXianity

I think they had someone climb to the top of the mountain, look along the coast to where mecca was and take a sighting to where to build the new Mosque - they couldn't go wrong really could they!!!

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

Islam disagrees with certain things that were corrupted. Islam believes in the Original gospels which were unaltered, non corrupted. There are 300 different versions of the bible but Islam still says that only the true unaltered versions are correct and everything else is false.

I know - and this is where the textual criticism of the bible comes in very beautifully, as it substantiates how much faith we can have in the original message of the bible, all while documenting the few small disagreements for further consideration (meaning the bible fares much better than the Quran under Uthman's cleansing of alternate readings...they were all destroyed outright, leaving us and muslims to hope that he was "divinely inspired" to save the correct reading.

Anyway you are diverting a bit, now what do you think about the accuracy of the miracle.

Diversion wasn't my point anywhere, my apologies. Just trying to address your responses appropriately.

I don't doubt the validity of the information and that it may have had non-human origins by any means - I believe a lot of other ancient information and structures, etc., are the same way. I just disagree with the conclusion that it's from God himself in approval of Islam.

Isn't it possible that he just decided to face it in that direction?

Without devine intervention.

Maybe it felt right

"Look o'er yonder thine faithful plebs, tis here in this direction, whilst aiming as best we can for the top of yonder mount, we build."

and hence it was built.

Originally posted by Danbones

The Gospel of Barnabas was little known outside academic circles until recent times, when a number of Muslims have taken to publishing it to argue against the orthodox Christian conception of Jesus. It generally resonates better with existing Muslim views than with Christianity:[34] it foretells the coming of Muhammad by name; rather than describing the crucifixion of Jesus, it describes him being raised up into heaven,[35] similar to the description of Elijah in 2 Kings, Chapter 2; and it calls Jesus a "prophet" whose mission was restricted to the "house of Israel".

en.wikipedia.org...

in support of the Op's contention that Muslims may have some credibility as a legit religion vs JewdaoXianity

The earliest copies of which describing this information show up only in about the last 500 years...possible, but I don't consider this to have much actual support as a true early christian document.

At this point what about the pure disbelievers: atheitsts etc...

While there are some people on here who believe it came from another one of God's creations like Satan, there are some who believe it came from God.

What about those non-believers how do not believe in any of those...what are your theories and evidence to back it up please.

reply to post by magma

Isn't it possible that he just decided to face it in that direction?

Anything is possible, but we are looking at the evidence.

How did most or all subsequent mosques after the first two ones created all end up facing Mecca? Are all these just lucky guesses? There was some time and consideration taken into aiming the face of the construction.