Do I have freedom FROM religion?

You have freedom FROM religion as long as you;

>> Never claim this publicly if you want to run for political office.
>> Want to forgo a 50-70% discount on daycare.
>> Want to lose a great source of networking. People at church have better incomes than people not -- delaying gratification for heaven? Hardly.
>> Want to skip all the great playgrounds, discounted summer camps for kids, and tax write-offs.


The mega churches in our area have media departments that rival any companies, and they have castles with shiny new cars in the parking lot. These are country clubs as long as you can pretend to pay lip-service to what everyone is saying.

Personally, I get hugely embarrassed whenever walking into a church, because I wonder if their is some higher being looking down on this fiasco of commercialism, mental manipulation, and the death of critical thinking that takes place in most churches.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by SaturnFX
So, here is a question I have then...I have freedom of religion in the United States...I can choose whatever I want, be it christianity, buddism, spaghetti'ism, etc.

But, do I have freedom from religion? Can I go to public places and not have my children or I indoctrinated into any form?

Oh, you mean like the gay pride parades in every city every year? How about you move those inside so that those of US who want freedom from rampant amorality don't have to have OUR children subjected to THAT?

Tell you what, you can have a word removed from a building they day your buddies agree to never have another parade again where the evening news pukes feel compelled to shove those perverse images in our faces.

Deal?

The governments hold gay pride parades?
thought it was just a parade that anyone is allowed to have, including KKK and the like.

the gay pride parade is not a government function...don't like it, complain to the businesses and organizations that hold them.

So...no deal I guess considering its apples and oranges.

Originally posted by deepankarm
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Any smart gov will have the same view and you only need common sense for that...
Anyway, i didn't vote for Obama, so why should i be forced to call him my president???

If you want to give up your citizenship, you won't have to call him your president. However, if you are going to retain citizenship in the US, he's your president whether you like it or not

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by SaturnFX
So, here is a question I have then...I have freedom of religion in the United States...I can choose whatever I want, be it christianity, buddism, spaghetti'ism, etc.

But, do I have freedom from religion? Can I go to public places and not have my children or I indoctrinated into any form?

Oh, you mean like the gay pride parades in every city every year? How about you move those inside so that those of US who want freedom from rampant amorality don't have to have OUR children subjected to THAT?

Tell you what, you can have a word removed from a building they day your buddies agree to never have another parade again where the evening news pukes feel compelled to shove those perverse images in our faces.

Deal?

The governments hold gay pride parades?
thought it was just a parade that anyone is allowed to have, including KKK and the like.

the gay pride parade is not a government function...don't like it, complain to the businesses and organizations that hold them.

Interesting response, since religion is not a function of government. I though religion was just personal beliefs that anyone was allowed to have, including KKK and the like.

So it's okay to ban if YOU don't like it, but something YOU like, it's off-limits?

Typical liberal mindset. Hypocrite.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
So, here is a question I have then...I have freedom of religion in the United States...I can choose whatever I want, be it christianity, buddism, spaghetti'ism, etc.

But, do I have freedom from religion? Can I go to public places and not have my children or I indoctrinated into any form?

If yes, then why are some wanting to have teacher lead prayers back in school, under god in the pledge, or in god we trust stamped on the money? This is not freedom from religion..so, how is it constitutionally applicable. If paganism become mainstream again, do we then change the money to "In the gods we trust"? change the pledge to "Under The Gods"?

If no, then which religion specifically is the state sponsored religion (some constitutional references showing the imposition of religion on the citizens would be helpful for my understanding. My creator (aka, my mother) taught me that its good to get source material in order to back up a claim.


So, your thoughts...do we have freedom from religion?

Heres a question..........When you were younger in age, religious stuff was a lot more abundant , and less activist against it being out in the open.......

it was everywhere.......

You arent indoctrinated now.......You still hold your belief systems........

As do many people who are older and are atheist.......

Why all the sudden is it indoctrination now?

If people from years past, when there as more abundant expression of religion, somehow managed to stillhave their own thoughts on religion today.......

Why is there such an outcry now, when its not as freely expressed without reprisal?

Is it not indoctrination to opress religious groups against their OWN freedom of expression?

Is it not indoctrinating younger generations to loath religion, instead of exercising their freedom of CHOICE?

Do the religious not have freedom FROM those who would seek to oppress them and their views, just as much as you perceive you have the right not to be?

reply to post by Sinny


Ah come on! It's not that bad in the midlands! Granted, I went to a C of E primary and secondary school but there are some secular schools around here! I'm from Coventry by the way. Nice to see another nearby ATSer here!

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by SaturnFX
So, here is a question I have then...I have freedom of religion in the United States...I can choose whatever I want, be it christianity, buddism, spaghetti'ism, etc.

But, do I have freedom from religion? Can I go to public places and not have my children or I indoctrinated into any form?

Oh, you mean like the gay pride parades in every city every year? How about you move those inside so that those of US who want freedom from rampant amorality don't have to have OUR children subjected to THAT?

Tell you what, you can have a word removed from a building they day your buddies agree to never have another parade again where the evening news pukes feel compelled to shove those perverse images in our faces.

Deal?

The governments hold gay pride parades?
thought it was just a parade that anyone is allowed to have, including KKK and the like.

the gay pride parade is not a government function...don't like it, complain to the businesses and organizations that hold them.

Interesting response, since religion is not a function of government. I though religion was just personal beliefs that anyone was allowed to have, including KKK and the like.

So it's okay to ban if YOU don't like it, but something YOU like, it's off-limits?

Typical liberal mindset. Hypocrite.

Your failing to comprehend the thread.
not surprising
Typical conservative mindset. Idiot.
(not seeing how this helps in understanding..but then again, your not trying to understand, are you)

to repost
_____
Yep, my bad. I hit post before rereading it.
You know how sometimes you type something that makes sense to you as you type it, then realize it can be taken different ways when someone else points it out.
Of course, I wasn't even clued in on this until it was past post edit for clarification...(makes sense why people thought I was being a bit insane).

When I said public, I was meaning official public places, like statues of the 10 commandments on display at courthouses...not some preacher on the side of a road.

Had I known this thread would become so hyped up, I would have no doubt spent far more time making sure every word was calculated so there is no doubt as to what I was saying.

Anyhow, ya...I take responsibility for the miscommunication that is this thread in its entirety and will use it as a lesson for future posts on how I need to reread before posting in order to clearly state my point...else ya, people will (rightfully) get the wrong impression on the stance in general.

reply to post by AshleyD


This person speaks the truth. I'm sure you all have a rough idea of what went on in Europe and England 600 years ago. You could still believe in a god and be burnt at the stake let alone being agnostic. Nice title, but yes, you do have freedom from religion.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
If people from years past, when there as more abundant expression of religion, somehow managed to stillhave their own thoughts on religion today.......

Took me a couple decades to get over the programming enough to question it comfortably.

and the repost:
_____
Yep, my bad. I hit post before rereading it.
You know how sometimes you type something that makes sense to you as you type it, then realize it can be taken different ways when someone else points it out.
Of course, I wasn't even clued in on this until it was past post edit for clarification...(makes sense why people thought I was being a bit insane).

When I said public, I was meaning official public places, like statues of the 10 commandments on display at courthouses...not some preacher on the side of a road.

Had I known this thread would become so hyped up, I would have no doubt spent far more time making sure every word was calculated so there is no doubt as to what I was saying.

Anyhow, ya...I take responsibility for the miscommunication that is this thread in its entirety and will use it as a lesson for future posts on how I need to reread before posting in order to clearly state my point...else ya, people will (rightfully) get the wrong impression on the stance in general.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask

Is it not indoctrinating younger generations to loath religion, instead of exercising their freedom of CHOICE?

I think this is closer to the truth than just about everything else said here. This has led to a hypersensitive negative view towards anything remotely religion. I'm not very religious but I have on occasions indulged the "atheist crowd" at times and I have yet to meet one that didn't have zero tolerance to anything they deem religious. Not to mention the vast majority I have met have a superiority complex with narcissistic undertones.

reply to post by FaceLikeTheSun
I just re-read my post. The word bad just aint there. The bad is all of it. Not one part THE WHOLE DAMN THING. ALL RELIGION is bullshat. IMHO. There will never be freedom from it nor true freedom from anything else that encompasse's religion. It's slavery, pure & simple. Good people do good things, Bad people do bad things, but when good people do bad things, that takes some religion. When there has to be hundreds of sites dedicated to the victims of molestation at the hands of the catholic church, that say's a whole damn bunch about religion. And the "Good People" involved in said religion.
Let folks chose for themselves, don't beat them over the head with it and make them feel lost with out it. I aint lost. I made up my own mind years ago. It's fairey tales of biblical proportions.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
If people from years past, when there as more abundant expression of religion, somehow managed to stillhave their own thoughts on religion today.......

Took me a couple decades to get over the programming enough to question it comfortably.

and the repost:
_____
Yep, my bad. I hit post before rereading it.
You know how sometimes you type something that makes sense to you as you type it, then realize it can be taken different ways when someone else points it out.
Of course, I wasn't even clued in on this until it was past post edit for clarification...(makes sense why people thought I was being a bit insane).

When I said public, I was meaning official public places, like statues of the 10 commandments on display at courthouses...not some preacher on the side of a road.

Had I known this thread would become so hyped up, I would have no doubt spent far more time making sure every word was calculated so there is no doubt as to what I was saying.

Anyhow, ya...I take responsibility for the miscommunication that is this thread in its entirety and will use it as a lesson for future posts on how I need to reread before posting in order to clearly state my point...else ya, people will (rightfully) get the wrong impression on the stance in general.

LoL not a problem man it happens........

Was it reprogramming or simply change of opinion? Some people mix the two.............

Ive found many things that i thought for a long time, and then changed my opinion on them over the years.....

it wasnt because of indoctrination , as much as I chose to do more research and asses my own ideas......

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask

Is it not indoctrinating younger generations to loath religion, instead of exercising their freedom of CHOICE?

I think this is closer to the truth than just about everything else said here. This has led to a hypersensitive negative view towards anything remotely religion. I'm not very religious but I have on occasions indulged the "atheist crowd" at times and I have yet to meet one that didn't have zero tolerance to anything they deem religious. Not to mention the vast majority I have met have a superiority complex with narcissistic undertones.

I agree ive met many many of this crowd who are like that........yet ive met some that are not, they just make their choice, and religious things just dont bother them......they just dont subscribe to them and realize that other people do......

What hard core atheist need to realize is that they are pushing their beliefs on people just as much as they claim the religious are.....

We must have self evaluation to have freedom of or FROM anything........

We cannot pretend that forcing our views on others who do not subscribe to them, in retaliation for the same, is any more just than the other......

Originally posted by TheRedneck
Your rights do not trump the rights of others.

And yet others' rights do trump mine to enjoy a cigarette in public.

Because second hand smoke may harm them.

Indoctrination is arguably even worse than second hand smoke, because it can harm entire communities down the road.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Sorry, op, much to our dismay, there is no freedom from religion in a country founded by religious zealots.

reply to post by SaturnFX


1. You want to pray in school? There are schools for that. They're called Catholic schools. Go pray there.

2. You want to display the 10 commandments? They've been on display in a book for centuries. Go read it.

Keep organized poison out of our schools and public displays.

reply to post by Kharron

And yet others' rights do trump mine to enjoy a cigarette in public.

Assuming this cigarette smoking in public is done in such a way as to not cause injury to others, then it is not others rights trumping yours to smoke that cigarette, it is bogus legislation trampling all over your right. This is why the courts have power of judicial review, to strike down any legislation that tramples upon the rights of individuals.

Because second hand smoke may harm them.

In an enclosure, this may be so. Of course, legislation claiming it is so doesn't make it so, and such legislation can be challenged, and the wise plaintiff will force the government to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that second hand smoke does harm. Then again, the wise plaintiff will do the research first and if discovering that second hand smoke does demonstrably harm others, then smoking in an enclosed public place is not a right.

Indoctrination is arguably even worse than second hand smoke, because it can harm entire communities down the road.

This sentence implies you have accepted the argument that second hand smoke does cause harm, which then contradicts your first sentence. Harming others is not a right. It looks as if you have indeed fallen prey to indoctrination, but it doesn't look like you've fallen prey to religious indoctrination, only government indoctrination.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


My right to breathe clean air trumps the right of an ignoramus to cloud it up with their toxic smoke.

BUT, it is harder to regulate such things in a public area, which renders such laws moot. Case in point, the city nearest to me attempted to pass a law to ban smoking in the marketplace (a public street with businesses, including bars and restaurants). It was turned down (and rightfully so) because it would be nearly impossible to enforce without an increase in police presence.

You can't have it all. As someone who cannot stand cigarette smokers or cigarette smoke, I accept this. Smoking bans in bars and restaurants are good enough and if people don't like it? QUIT and save yourself some money and your health in the long run. Absolutely disgusting habit (among other habits).

reply to post by The Sword

My right to breathe clean air trumps the right of an ignoramus to cloud it up with their toxic smoke.

Rights do not trump each other. If you are correct and cigarette smoke clouds are toxic then it is your responsibility to prove that this right is being violated. It becomes messier if you live in a smog infested area. Consider the Donora Smog Incident, or the London Smog of 1952, or the more recent Moscow Smog Filled Summer. Smog is quite clearly a problem and toxic. Compare the immediate dangers of smog to second hand smoke, and while there is overwhelming evidence that second hand smoke is dangerous, that evidence makes it clear it is no where near as dangerous as smog.

The data makes your histrionics that much worse, and given you are being histrionic in order to perpetuate the canard that rights trump rights, it is just plain foolish and ignorant. Your right to breathe clean air begins with trumping all over the rights of automobile owners, and fire burners, and any other agent that causes smog, but rather than get all histrionic about that, instead you do it over outdoor smoking. Sigh.

I get that you "accept" the failure to tyrannize smokers in open air public, but just the same, it is a profound disregard for rights.

I think clean air is an issue, but if you are going to ignore the industrial revolution and all the smog caused by factories, cars, and other polluting factors just to have your say about cigarette smokers, well....

Originally posted by lucid eyes

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

10 or 20 years from now when Islam is the religion of the majority instead of Christianity, do you want the government putting "In Allah We Trust" on the money? Would you feel offended, as a Christian? I bet you would.

As previously mentioned I consider people who are offended at mere words, especially harmless or positive words, mentally ill. So no, I wouldn't be offended by the word "God" (or "Allah" if its translated to another language).

Do you have a language in MIND?? What needs to be translated?