Androgyny as a Non Gender Spiritual Concept

I think the problem is the labeling. Why label yourself "bi", "straight" or "gay" and then try to force yourself to stick with it for your entire life? Things change and sometimes sexuality change. There are some "straight" guys that just lose interest in women or "bi" guys that just lose interest in other guys and therefore are straight...

People act like they KNOW what's going on in another person's mind and just say "they are denying it and are really this way or that way", NO, things change in nature because change is what is natural.

And for all those people saying that he is gay just because he slept with a man, you have a simplistic view of sexuality.

Sexuality is who you are attracted to, not who you are sleeping with.

Sometimes there are questioning straight guys that sleep with man to see if they are really straight and most are straight, and sometimes there are gay guys sleeping with women thinking that it'll "turn" them straight.

Go with your nature and be yourself. Be authentic because the lies are just illusions.

Originally posted by arpgme
I think the problem is the labeling. Why label yourself "bi", "straight" or "gay" and then try to force yourself to stick with it for your entire life? Things change and sometimes sexuality change. There are some "straight" guys that just lose interest in women or "bi" guys that just lose interest in other guys and therefore are straight...

Then, by that logic, all humans can be attracted to both genders. I can see that being generally accurate, however, I would not say that everyone will go through varied stages of sexuality.

Of course, I can only see it from my viewpoint. I can see a woman and understand that she is beautiful. I do not, however, feel any emotion about it or attraction to her. I have no interest.

Granted, this is also how I feel when I see a man and understand that he is handsome. I do not feel emotion about it, or attraction to him. I have no interest.

On the rare occasion that I have felt emotion or attraction looking at a person, it is always toward males.

I guess, maybe, I am unattracted to both genders?

Honestly, I just look at people and see them. It doesn't matter to me what they actually look like. I have no interest in casual relations and do not consider or rate males [or females] as "potential partners" when noting them.

People act like they KNOW what's going on in another person's mind and just say "they are denying it and are really this way or that way", NO, things change in nature because change is what is natural.

I think that is really the case for any type of label or stereotype. There's always going to be someone talking trash about someone else. The fact of the matter is, people are biased. People will always be biased until they realize that their bias only exists because of fear.

And for all those people saying that he is gay just because he slept with a man, you have a simplistic view of sexuality.

Sexuality is who you are attracted to, not who you are sleeping with.

I am not sure how to respond to this statement.

If one is attracted to a man and "sleeps with" the man, then one's sexuality includes attraction to men. I agree, I don't see a point in labeling people one way or the other; but to most people, a person who is attracted to the same gender [homo = same] is homosexual [sexually attracted to same gender].

Sometimes there are questioning straight guys that sleep with man to see if they are really straight and most are straight, and sometimes there are gay guys sleeping with women thinking that it'll "turn" them straight.

Well, that's just misguided. People who do things like this are operating on fear and shame. And, that's always a sad thing to see.

I can't imagine going to the lengths of having sexual relations with someone "just to see" whether or not you prefer the same gender. That seems so bizarre to me...

But, that may be because (as I have stated), I have no interest in casual relations.

Go with your nature and be yourself. Be authentic because the lies are just illusions.

Agreed.

reply to post by ottobot


Just a few things I wanted to clarify:

Yes, you're right. I wasn't saying that it happens to all, but it can and does, sometimes happen...

As for the man that sleeps with another man, I was simply saying that it is possible to sleep with someone without being attracted to them...

A gay guy and be feeling bad about himself and sleeping with a woman while thinking of a man and no one would know, and a straight guy can be sleeping with a gay guy and thinking of a woman, and the other guy wouldn't know it.

(I know it is messed up but it does happen)

So you don't necessarily have to be attracted to someone to sleep with them.

One interesting thing to note is that Dr. Francis Collins, head of the Genome project has stated that there is no ‘gay gene’. He basis his opinion mostly on identical twin studies and genetic comparisons between men who identify themselves as being either gay or straight. His belief is that homosexuality, and to take it a step further sexuality in general is not necessarily ‘hardwired’ in the brain from birth, but rather remains fluid.

He states that there may be certain genes that make it more likely that a person may become gay, but it is overwhelming early childhood experiences and to a certain degree teenage experiences which eventually cement ones general sexual identity.

I personally do not believe that this necessarily means people have necessarily have a ‘choice’ in the matter for when certain neural pathways form in the brain, especially early on in life, it can be in many cases be near impossible to change. Speaking anecdotally to some of my gay friends I know that many of them spent much of their teenage lives wishing they could be anything but gay until they finally grew to accept themselves for who they were. But this also gets back to the points raised earlier about the dangers of applying labels to ones self; for more often than not you end up limiting yourself by believing that’s all you can be and only end up reinforcing the neural pathways which were first made long before puberty ever took place.

I myself believe that this is probably common sense also for if there were such thing as a ‘gay gene’ it would have probably bred itself out long before humans even evolved as a species.

It is actually kinda hard to find any decent information about this from any source that is not fundamentalist Christian or has some other agenda to fulfill. Possibly one of the main reasons for this is these sort of studies are often seen as being somehow politically incorrect due to pressure from gay lobby groups whom I can only surmise see it as an attack on homosexuality in general. I personally believe this is a little crazy as I think that the focus should not so much be about homosexuality per se but on sexual and lifestyle freedom as a whole.

So how does this apply to the question of Androgyny as a spiritual concept? The world is moving forward and many traditional barriers are falling. We saw first with the racial barrier, then in the 60’s and 70’s many of the traditional views on sex and gender fell. Finally we are seeing it now regarding sex and relationships within the same gender. The younger generations are definitely more accepting of other kids who may have ‘homosexual’ tendencies. We have long since become more accepting of sex simply for the sake of pleasure. But what is sex, and to a greater degree relationships as a whole, on a spiritual level?

It is basically a merging of two souls. In the old dualistic world (which still well and truly holds sway today) men and women entered relationships to fulfill to a certain degree a part of themselves which was missing. For men it was the feminine aspect of themselves they looked to complete, and visa versa for the ladies out there. But as Nimbinned pointed out the spirit has no gender. When our focus becomes more spiritual we can often complete this missing part of our circuitry without relying on another, regardless of what organ we find between our legs. The focus then switches to forming a union with another who will allow us to grow on a spiritual level regardless of their physical gender. This obviously can and probably will include the sexual aspects of a relationship, but this is only a small part of it. It is the relationship as a whole which matters, and this is really the key.

For in a the emerging new age I feel that more and more people will begin forming loving relationships between others who will help them grow on a spiritual level regardless of their physical gender. This I believe is one of the main reasons which these old barriers are beginning to crumble. It is to allow us the freedom to interact and form relationships with whomsoever we desire in order to give us the tools to allow us reach our maximum spiritual potential.

ETA: Sexuality is not a complicated thing. It is we who make it complicated as we all seem to do with most aspects of our lives....

reply to post by arpgme


that is about u, since obviously what u mean is that u always get to b and never realize urself being in whatever u seem doing or look like being as

this is u not anyone and surely never what everyone are

that is why u dont know apparantly how impossible it is to b next to someone just to talk to that u dislike

things are real missy not fancies in ur bed connected to whatever conditions for lonely souls

reply to post by arpgme

Oh, ok, I see what you are saying.

I guess, then, the only solution is:

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.
Farewell, my blessing season this in thee!
- Polonius (Hamlet, W.Shakespeare)

Originally posted by 1littlewolf
One interesting thing to note is that Dr. Francis Collins, head of the Genome project has stated that there is no ‘gay gene’...His belief is that homosexuality, and to take it a step further sexuality in general is not necessarily ‘hardwired’ in the brain from birth, but rather remains fluid.

I don't think it is a "gene", per se. But, I do know that there are some children as young as three years old who "know" they are attracted to people of the same or opposite gender.

I myself believe that this is probably common sense also for if there were such thing as a ‘gay gene’ it would have probably bred itself out long before humans even evolved as a species.

In all honesty, I think it is hardwired into the human species to control our own population. As the population increases, more people will be "gay" and thus population growth will slow incrementally.

There is not much room for homosexuality in nature, therefore it only presents frequently when the population is large.

I see this natural population control in other areas, too. When the population starts to increase, more people move to places where natural disasters occur frequently, people procreate less overall, people begin to focus more on "the hive" (society) than "the family".

I don't think it's good or bad - it just is. We're overdue for a bottleneck, and I would not be surprised if the current human genetics are just a precursor.

So how does this apply to the question of Androgyny as a spiritual concept? ...
But what is sex, and to a greater degree relationships as a whole, on a spiritual level?

It is basically a merging of two souls. In the old dualistic world (which still well and truly holds sway today) men and women entered relationships to fulfill to a certain degree a part of themselves which was missing. ..It is the relationship as a whole which matters, and this is really the key.

I agree, I don't think the gender matters - if you love someone, you love them. That love is the important thing.

For in a the emerging new age I feel that more and more people will begin forming loving relationships between others who will help them grow on a spiritual level regardless of their physical gender. This I believe is one of the main reasons which these old barriers are beginning to crumble. It is to allow us the freedom to interact and form relationships with whomsoever we desire in order to give us the tools to allow us reach our maximum spiritual potential.

We'll see! I would be satisfied if folks could just be accepting of others instead of always so judgmental.

ETA: Sexuality is not a complicated thing. It is we who make it complicated as we all seem to do with most aspects of our lives....

This is true.