Why is some of the NASA footage so strange to some?

Originally posted by dejarmaX
if what we are really seeing in the footage in question really is that of something the authorities 'do not' want us to see (due to a cover up of immense magnitude as many feel is the case) then why is the footage made available for all to see?

This is a massive conspiracy as you've noted. Leaks are bound to happen as a result of its size. The U.S. government isn't going to censor material that has already gotten out as that would be seen as tacit admission of cover up. Once that happens an official denial or debunking must be undertaken to keep the majority from thinking there is anything of substance to the leaked material.

reply to post by JimOberg


I will re-watch this video weighted with the information that you posted. If you are wrong, ... hell fire is upon you.

reply to post by JimOberg

I've never heard anybody use the 'reflection of a planet on our atmosphere" excuse, not even the most rabid debunker.

You just imagined that as a satire, right?

You're not expecting anyone to believe it's true, are you?

So you're using mockery as an argumentative gimmick, eh?

Sadly Jim, it has been used before....or close enough.

Menzel and Steuart Campbell are the two guys I've seen using this approach. Campbell explained the Bob Taylor (Dechmont Woods) incident as a mirage of Venus being reflected off a temperature inversion.

The Red Bluff incident had two officers reportedly seeing an object go overhead and appear to be about to crash. They stopped the car to watch and described some object with red lights. Someone from the USAF explained it as a refraction of Mars. Either Hynek or Menzel could have been the source for this explanation. Menzel used a similar approach with Clyde Tombaugh and also the Nash/Fortenberry letters iirc.

We can split hairs over reflection/refraction but it's close enough to show how some guys over the years have put out some incredible explanations.

I seem to recall you taking a dim view of Menzel's approach to explaining UFO sighting reports; it was a couple of years back and hard to place.

Originally posted by dejarmaX

seriously-- Here's the question:

if what we are really seeing in the footage in question really is that of something the authorities 'do not' want us to see (due to a cover up of immense magnitude as many feel is the case) then why is the footage made available for all to see?

peace.

dej...

Well, the answer to your simple question is rather more complicated, certainly in some minds, than you make out. The easy answer, and the one that no doubt you have already come to yourself, is that these people are some shade of nuts. But I believe that to brush off all suggestion of cover ups and conspiracies as the rantings of maniacs and attention seekers is a gross mistake.

First of all it is most important that we make sure we all understand the real meaning of the terminology we are using. A UFO is an unidentified flying object. That phrase alone does not specify the origin of the object, the nature of it, and indeed may have been coined precisely to be as vauge as possible. There is a weight of thought on the subject in these parts (ATS) that leans toward the term being used as often to cover the existance of military testing vehicles, like the HTV , Aurora and others, as it has been used to describe vehicles that the witness would assume were alien in origin, due to the media influence on thier thinking.

The fact is that the governments of the world have had long practice at hiding things from the public, by putting them in plain sight. If it did not work so damned well, then the UK's embattled population would have pulled parliament down around the scum that run the place years ago, in a fit of anger over the treatment of our poorest and most vulnerable citizens over the years, and the ammount of money that dissapears from the coffers of government into private enterprise and the pockets of cronies.

We know they hide things using the plain sight technique all the time, to hide much less sensitive gaffs, failiures, wrong doings, malpractices and so on. Now, it is easy to assume that a subject which carries as much potential weight as the UFO/alien question, would require a much more brutal clamp down on information. You would have thought therefore, that ANY suggestion of a sighting or an abduction would never even have entered the mass conciousness, the witnesses having been liquidated or rendered utterly incapable of sharing thier expiriences in some way (perhaps hypnosis and deep suggestion rather than a ballistic lobotomy).

But, there are some very good reasons why a government would seek to publish material which keeps the fire burning in inquisitive minds. The government know as well as any of us, just how many star child nut bars there are wandering the wastes of the internet, and even camping out in "hotspots" trying to contact thier void born buddies. They know what shades of mental these people are, and they know how to manipulate much stronger minds than these using subtle means. Therefore, it is much easier for them to poo poo the idea when the vast majority of the media exposure that is given to the subject, involves COMPLETE crazies. They get those who claim to want the truth, to spread disinformation on the subject, making it so clouded that no one can name a truth amongst the barrel of seething BS that revolves around it with any accuracy.

The other thing you have to understand, is that many of the videos you are talking about, contain objects which could literally be any damn thing. Most of the people who make the really whacky claims about the content of a given video know next to nothing about science, especially phsyics as it relates to space travel. There was a rash at one time, of videos which contained nothing but debris close to the camera, which were being touted as space fleets, enormous armadas of battle ships, and the nutcases were soon creating back histories for the alien races aboard these dust motes. There are hours and hours of such empty video, and pages and pages of false information and psuedo religious ranting about our alien masters to go with them, out there in the internet.

So much is this the case, that it would be very easy to hide an infrequent gem of real deal video, amongst the lies and the blabber, and the worthless hours of wasted video, and skewed opinion. Since the government are aware that the same intellectual non entities will make the same claims about ALL the content of ALL;the video, they have no need to worry about its release, unless the video clearly shows an UNQUESTIONABLE level of vehicular detail, absolute evidence of a crewed craft, or indeed a video of a meet and greet at the White House or any other political centre, between world leaders and that which they claim does not exist, that being a previously contacted space faring intelligence.

They hide thier tyranny behind a thin veil of democracy. What makes you think that is all they hide?

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by alyoshablue
How about the case of Martin Stubbs. I think NASA stopped the direct feeds from most people, yet he was still able to gather the information and compile quite a story. But, I guess I still saw it and NASA wanted me to see it.

I don't know, but I think the Stubbs footage is perhaps the most compelling for "oddities."

For those of you who never want to look at life the same way again, I present:

Actually, it's pretty dry stuff. But, if you are into this type of thing, then it should be right up your alley. It explains how he came about the footage.

As far as I can determine, NASA never noticed Stubbs. He is convinced they performed all sorts of avoidance and coverup measures to foil him, but he brags he was too smart for them. He enjoys thinking that but his claims are silly -- NASA once switched commercial rebroadcast contracts, and to Stubbs, that was a secret shift a communications satellite aimed at avoiding HIM.. NASA released all the videos on a public-access satellite, and Stubbs calls the transmissions 'secret' -- why he lies about the security level, it's not for me to say.

And when he reposts the videos, note how he usually withholds the date/time the scenes occurred, so independent investigators are unable to check up on the context of the original scenes. Carelessness -- or coverup?

You are totally wrong. He did not claim that NASA avoided him...that was Jeff Challender. Jeff was using his 'Project Prove' web site to demonstrate...via video posts... various 'changes' he saw in the NASA coverage after Martyn Stubbs released all his NASA footage worldwide, on March 11, 2000.

The changing of satellites & the other claims also came from Jeff's UK friend at UFO Yorkshire (Andy Elles)

Last time I checked the You Tube 'secretnasaman' channel, the live audio on most clips gives all the details. You just have to look AND listen Mr. Oberg!

NASA never knew that Martyn Stubbs had recorded all of NASA's live downlinks from every mission from 1993 until 2000.!!! After his March 2000 world release the coverage did change & Jim started a NASA UFO War of words with Martyn Stubbs that still roars on today!

And all he has left to say about him... is a series of personal attacks? Shame on you Jim Oberg.

Originally posted by dejarmaX


Why is it no one who believes this can answer a simple straight forward question? If I had a pound for every time I've asked this question without a reasonable logical common sense reply in return from those who believe there's a cover up etc, I'd have about, eeer, 14 pounds by now

seriously-- Here's the question:

if what we are really seeing in the footage in question really is that of something the authorities 'do not' want us to see (due to a cover up of immense magnitude as many feel is the case) then why is the footage made available for all to see?

peace.

dej...

which is fishier? some grainy poor footage with the occassional 'anomaly' that we all seem to argue about for days on end,
or "space station? what space station? oh, that space station! nah sorry the camera broke again"

also since people appear to be brandishing Occam's Razor like some sort of weapon, we have clear proof and precedent that governments will lie to their people any time they think they can possibly get away with it, as well as most times they know they won't. this is a wide wide world full of incredibly strange happenings and increasingly the 'simplest answer' seems to be "they're at it again!"

reply to post by JimOberg

The Mantell Crash was quickly investigated by Project Sign, the Air Force's new research group which had been created to study UFO incidents. Though Project Sign's staff never came to a conclusion, other Air Force investigators ruled that Mantell had misidentified the planet Venus, and, wrongly believing that he could close in to get a better look, had passed out from the lack of oxygen at high altitude.

Mantell incident

Do you remember a certain JFK got shot in front of many people, it was filmed and everybody believes a bullet did al lthe damage it did, without being destroyed in any way shape or form?

Magic bullet

Just look at it!

How's that for denying?

reply to post by dejarmaX


Just so you know, you didn't ask me if I "believed" or had seen UFOs.

But I'll play along and tell you; I have seen UFOs and not just your light show over an airport.

I don't believe in UFOs because I know there are many in the skies. And I believe some are from something not of this Earth.

Ever wondered why so many ex-military and ex-secret services agents are spilling the beans in the UFO community? It's part of intox and disinfo from many of them, still on a mission for big brother.
They can't just cross over and change camp because they retired.

Those who really do don't live long enough.

The comment pushed by Jim Oberg that NASA freely & with full knowledge let these downloads be seen by anyone with a 1980s giant satellite dish is correct....but the feeds were ignored by the UFO community in general & we have found out over this past decade that no one else recorded them...except Martyn Stubbs!

He is the sole source for nearly all of the NASA footage now posted by himself & thousands of others (with his permission), all over the web! Thus the NASA videos have multiple millions & millions of views, posted on thousands of sites globally. And the # is increasing steadily.

This year many documentaries have asked for & received his NASA UFO Videos. They will & have come out showing millions more people these amazing NASA UFO videos. He even provided the producers of the latest Discovery/Science channel show that Jim Oberg is promoting..."NASA's Unexplained Files" ...with access to his NASA UFO Archives, & each production does so well with ratings, that new shows are lined up to receive their own copies from his master tapes of these stunning NASA UFO videos. It has turned out that exposure of these UFO videos trumps the debunking!!!

To Jim Oberg's "freely available"/total access by NASA" comment, I say this... If NASA was so open about what it was putting out, then how come no one else in the world has these mastered full flight day videos...like the 'tether incident'. We all know that today, NASA won't release any of the tether video to the public..including debunkers like Jim Oberg!

Before the "Secret NASA Transmissions" was released...the NASA cameras downloaded video at every opportunity. Hours of night video, spacewalks, view shots in color & so much of it showing Unidentified Objects. Special UV & infrared cameras were also downloaded live. When astronauts slept, Mission control would take over the cameras & zoom all over the earth & skies..in focus..out of focus, you name it..but it all was put out

...only to be captured by someone, with the means (a cable TV company) the motive (As a Mufon director at the time he just had discovered the famous 'right turn by a UFO' on the STS 48 mission & the 'orb' UFO video from STS 52) & the opportunity (he was a cable program manager & had access to vcrs/VTRs, Giant Satellite dishes & tons of video tape!)

And the reason NASA showed all it could via live video downlink was because these were TVs 'Analogue' days...& only a single video feed could be sent to earth...thus the cameras were NASA's only "eyes"!
By 2000, Digital had changed everything, with multiple 'piggybacking' of NASA video...all scrambled! What was distributed publically on NASA TV was carefully chosen. There was a delay of 2 minutes on top of that...which allowed NASA to cut out or go to S Band-freeze frame if anything unknown still popped up.

NASA demonstrates, via the thousands of hours of video captured by Martyn Stubbs, ignorance toward the NASA downlinks at the time. Bad, out of focus video..cameras following UFOs instead of spacewalkerss, bloopers on audio & a total lack of preparation regarding when & what to say about all the UFOs showing up.

Any unknown object was greeted with silence or ignored. Comments had to be coaxed out of astronauts when objects turned up!
People contradicted each other & much of the time the CAPCOM person was being shouted at by others in the background as to what they should say. Check out the (NASA described) "bed of Diamonds" sequence to hear this load and clear!

NASA used the video downlinks to share with other related parties (educational institutes & contractors) the video ..around the world. Thus they did not scramble their video downloads. Neither did HBO or ESPN etc. by the way.. because not many people had giant dish access & there was still no need for the early cable channels to worry about theft of signals. (Those were the days!)

Today NASA has to still go "all out" debunking these Space UFOs & has 'parked' it's resident UFO denier, Jim Oberg..."full time" at ATS, posting under his own name to establish some sort of superiority or " deliberate purpose".

...I am sure that NASA wishes for a DO-OVER as the NASA UFO videos have moved the UFO discussion away from the 'credibility of the video source' debate... to what we are actually "seeing" on the videos & that is the best thing of all about Martyn Stubbs NASA UFO discoveries...Its all real & it scares the heck out of NASA & the Gov't secret space program.

And so they continue to engage in a huge debunking campaign led full time by Jim Oberg, the famous old skeptic we like to call "yesterdays man"!

Originally posted by buzzEmiller

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by alyoshablue
How about the case of Martin Stubbs. I think NASA stopped the direct feeds from most people, yet he was still able to gather the information and compile quite a story. But, I guess I still saw it and NASA wanted me to see it.

I don't know, but I think the Stubbs footage is perhaps the most compelling for "oddities."

For those of you who never want to look at life the same way again, I present:

Actually, it's pretty dry stuff. But, if you are into this type of thing, then it should be right up your alley. It explains how he came about the footage.

As far as I can determine, NASA never noticed Stubbs. He is convinced they performed all sorts of avoidance and coverup measures to foil him, but he brags he was too smart for them. He enjoys thinking that but his claims are silly -- NASA once switched commercial rebroadcast contracts, and to Stubbs, that was a secret shift a communications satellite aimed at avoiding HIM.. NASA released all the videos on a public-access satellite, and Stubbs calls the transmissions 'secret' -- why he lies about the security level, it's not for me to say.

And when he reposts the videos, note how he usually withholds the date/time the scenes occurred, so independent investigators are unable to check up on the context of the original scenes. Carelessness -- or coverup?

You are totally wrong. He did not claim that NASA avoided him...that was Jeff Challender. Jeff was using his 'Project Prove' web site to demonstrate...via video posts... various 'changes' he saw in the NASA coverage after Martyn Stubbs released all his NASA footage worldwide, on March 11, 2000.

The changing of satellites & the other claims also came from Jeff's UK friend at UFO Yorkshire (Andy Elles)

Last time I checked the You Tube 'secretnasaman' channel, the live audio on most clips gives all the details. You just have to look AND listen Mr. Oberg!

NASA never knew that Martyn Stubbs had recorded all of NASA's live downlinks from every mission from 1993 until 2000.!!! After his March 2000 world release the coverage did change & Jim started a NASA UFO War of words with Martyn Stubbs that still roars on today!

And all he has left to say about him... is a series of personal attacks? Shame on you Jim Oberg.

Let me go check, thanks for the specific response. When I make any serious criticisms of somebody's analyses I do owe a citable source to the authenticity of the original comment under discussion.

Originally posted by buzzEmiller
...I am sure that NASA wishes for a DO-OVER as the NASA UFO videos have moved the UFO discussion away from the 'credibility of the video source' debate... to what we are actually "seeing" on the videos & that is the best thing of all about Martyn Stubbs NASA UFO discoveries...Its all real & it scares the heck out of NASA & the Gov't secret space program. And so they continue to engage in a huge debunking campaign led full time by Jim Oberg, the famous old skeptic we like to call "yesterdays man"!

So I take it that when I say I'm in it for my own personal interests, with no direction or even encouragement from anyone at NASA or anywhere else, you don't think I'm telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

reply to post by JimOberg
no you do not tell any whole truth...just what you need to in order to keep any debate limited to ice & debris!

Originally posted by buzzEmiller
reply to post by JimOberg

 

no you do not tell any whole truth...just what you need to in order to keep any debate limited to ice & debris!

I wish you would read my "99 FAQs About 'Space UFOs'" on my home page to see how false are your claims about what I've said and claimed.