Seized from smugglers, the leather-bound 'gospel' which Iran claims will bring down Christianity a

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


I read the article that was linked and it states in it that this will debunk Christianity and prove that Islam is the one true religion. How much more of a red flag does there need to be?

And don't hold your breath waiting

Originally posted by kosmicjack
Even if it's true, it doesn't make Jesus any less of an historical, transformative teacher. It just means his story was manipulated and co-opted for the benefit of an elite few. So what else is new?

Interesting nonetheless. It will be fascinating to see how this unfolds, if it's real or a hoax.

It is more than likely real since it is the Turkish government (Not Iran) with possesion of this book (a 1500 year old bible) and the Vatican has not been the only ones chomping at the bit to see it, so far Turkey has not allowed anyone to view the book to my knowledge.

The only way Iran would have it would be if they stole it... I seriously doubt they would.

"The Vatican has made an official request to gain access to a 1500-year-old Bible worth $28 million currently held by the Turkish government in Ankara, Turkey. There is speculation that the Bible may be a copy of the Gospel of Barnabas – a telling of Jesus' ministry Muslims believe is part of the original Gospels."
www.christianpost.com...

I do not know why this is circulating again like this is a new thing, this story first came out almost a year or more ago....

From the text:

The Basij Press claims the text was written in the 5th or 6th century and it predicted the coming of the Prophet Muhammad and the religion of Islam. It says the Christian world denies the existence of such a gospel.

Ok, there's a lot that Christendom doesn't use from the 5th and 6th century. This is a list of early writings. There's over 150 links to different manuscripts (a few potential manuscripts, like Q). These are all from before 400 AD, most of them having their earliest date around 150 AD or less. Considering that Christ's death would have been right before 40 AD, those are before the 2nd generation dies. Those written before 90 AD were written while there were still living Apostles. So sure, we could count this all a hoax, but people were alive who could verify what was written when it was written. Just for perspective: a handful of these were before Josephus wrote his history, period. But, hey, it's a free country.

When you click on each one, on the right side:

At a Glance
Treatise Genre:
Reliability of Dating:
Length of Text:
Greek Original Language:
Ancient Translations:
Modern Translations:

The whole page is set up to find the basics out. It's not detailed, since all copies, in multiple languages, of the same book, are counted as 1, when they are not NOVEL. (As in Q is novel, although there is no actual manuscript that I know of, for it. Theorized progenitor, that.)

Anyway, this text is a bit late to be alongside the rest of the texts. Keep that in mind.


Now:

Muhammad (c. 26 April 570 – 8 June 632;[1]

Literally, 6th-7th century. So, if the late end of the dating is accurate, Muhammad was born already. This is far closer in time to Muhammad's birth than even Daniel was written to Christ's. (Reference: Daniel's supposed to have foretold the coming of the Messiah, and there's no credible source that puts this at anywhere close to Christ's time of birth. ) So, this comes across as someone preparing texts at the time of Muhammad's ascent to power.

But, I can wait and see before cheering for anything.

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath
> 'Laughable' Iranian report claims the book states that Jesus was never crucified and He predicted the coming of the Prophet Muhammad

never crucified?

holy cow, really?

i thought he was hung.

i am sure i read somewhere christ was hung? i wonder where i read it?

oh yea, it was the bible.lol.

Originally posted by groingrinder
Allow me to give this thread it's first flag. You have to be very careful when reading religious works that were written by men WHO DID NOT PERSONALLY KNOW JESUS. But since the supposed author of this text did know Jesus, I would put much stock in his writings if they are proved authentic.

Most of the books of the bible were written at least 100 years after the time of Jesus, but men who didn't personally know him.

Your argument makes absolutely no sense.

reply to post by lacrimaererum

I've also read it in Origen's writings.

Originally posted by CynicalDrivel
Anyway, this text is a bit late to be alongside the rest of the texts. Keep that in mind.


Now:

Muhammad (c. 26 April 570 – 8 June 632;[1]

Literally, 6th-7th century. So, if the late end of the dating is accurate, Muhammad was born already. This is far closer in time to Muhammad's birth than even Daniel was written to Christ's. (Reference: Daniel's supposed to have foretold the coming of the Messiah, and there's no credible source that puts this at anywhere close to Christ's time of birth. ) So, this comes across as someone preparing texts at the time of Muhammad's ascent to power.

But, I can wait and see before cheering for anything.

b. 17th Rabi-ul-Awwal 54 B.H.(Fri 11th May 570 A.D.)
d. 8th Rabi-ul-Awwal 11 A.H.(Wed 6th Jun 632 A.D.)


As your dates were slightly off I thought I would clarify them, according to records, the Prophet Muhammed did not have even one revelation before his 40th year, and it was three years after that, that Islam was spoken of to anyone outside of wife and family, there was no open proclamation of Islam before this time.

If this book, while the church itself may not accept it as a geniune item for adding it to their teachings (as they are known to be very picky about only accepting what is being already taught) is in fact over 1500 years old, as the Turish government is stating categorically that they have dated it such...this would put the writing of this particular book at around 512 or earlier, a full 60 years before the Prophet of Islam was born, a full 100 years before the first revelation of Islam...

The best you can hope to say is that the Prophet copied his ideas from a similar book... not that He wrote it to support His....

This interesting if it is true? However, these matters of faith take a heck of lot more to change than some lost gospel written on animal hide. So far there have been the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Dan Brown books, the Shroud of Turin, and other things throughout the centuries that were supposed to rock Christianity to it's very core.

As far as I see it, things seem to be business as usual among the Christians as it is for other denominations. I certainly don't see a mass exodus over to the side of Islam as I think the Iranians may be hoping for as result of this text. Just another artifact to add to the collection.

reply to post by MI5edtoDeath


I read this story on MSN earlier in the day, and I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt UNTIL I read:

Among other things, it also claims this biblical figure saw an inscription at the gateway to heaven that said, "Allah is the only god and Mohammad is his prophet."

Link for Above


That's when I walked away shaking my head.

Well I read the Wiki article and basically there is reason to suggest it is another Don Quixote. Don Quixote gained other authors after a bit and more stories were written.

However, to suggest that it was written by Barnabas as the truth, when it was written around 1600 shows that it is not really about the truth per se.

If you recall what was going on at that time, conquistadors went to South America found extremely ancient artifacts which they melted down, but the knowledge they gained from that region regarding things, caused people to look again at history.

For instance this painting is from 1600, and it is in a church in Italy, and it shows the moon as a hollow metal sphere, and consciousness as a signal to the brain, from the moon. With angels and arch angels and a Egyptian connection with the arch angel and shows a computer with a tiny round monitor in the background that has a swirl in it to represent a spiral galaxy. You've seen the painting, you just maybe did not realize it was from 1600.
upload.wikimedia.org...

From what I know personally, that painting there knows more than modern science in the mainstream regarding life the universe and everything.
That there is Anunnaki stuff. And mainstream science is like caveman stuff by comparison.

But the text of Barnabas, I suggest it was a critique, by people at that time who were privy to some new information that put everything into perspective for them on a higher level of understanding.

And so then they looked at the Bible and said well hold on, that can't be right. And so they wrote something to try to reconcile their own beliefs with Christianity.

Lets pretend you were an Anunnaki, who came to earth, what are the chances you are going to get crucified?

Zero.

Lets suppose you are an Olympian, who came to earth, proclaiming he was an Anunnaki?

The odds are pretty good for crucifixion by the Titans. (Romans)

So its really a matter of lack of information, that causes these problems. For instance in reality, Mary belongs to the Cult of Isis, she agrees to be the mother of Jesus, so he can reincarnate. He was Horus in a previous life.

Horus was born when Isis took some sperm from her half-brother Osiris, after he was killed by Set. Or she took some sperm off her dress. So the actual situation is that Horus was born without his own personality file, Isis, hacked the computer and made his file by combining some of hers and some of Osiris' file.

So essentially Horus was born with a sister(Isis) and a clone brother (Osiris)
see parallels between Jesus and Horus (google)

So he is his own father. I and the father are one. He is a clone of his dad. So he has no mother or father at that point.

So in the cult of Isis, you take donor sperm from donor priests and you put it into an urn, and then you impregnate yourself, hence a virgin birth, and since the sperm is all mixed up, you don't know who the father is.

at this point he had no father yet because Zeus did not agree to be the father until pressured later after Jesus was crucified by the Romans. Zeus reincarnated as a Roman Emperor, and gave birth to Michael, only his name was something else but I am not going to tell you anything about them.

But it was reasonably close to after the crucifixion.

And so then that gave Christianity the boost it needed to become the Olympian religion. At one point the Romans got on-board and so then it became a synthesis of Titan and Olympian religious views.
But they were no longer at odds with each other.

But David was an outcast because he ran away with Osiris' mom, when she was married to Zeus. So the people of David, have always been sort of on the sidelines. Yet still connected.

So ok straight goods from me to you. I never heard of Muhammad, to be honest with you, and I am Zeus' son Osiris, father of Horus, husband of Isis, brother of Jesus. But then I was away for 2 million years.

Whats interesting there though is they are talking about secret things. And basically there are two machines like in the background of that painting. And the People of David are on one, and the rest on the other, hence all the reference to where the messiah would come from. They are talking about which soul catcher machine they are on. And the two machines were not connected or at least not at that time.

When Osiris died he cut the network, so they told me, but I got it back up and running in 1992, with David' help. He reincarnated too. And so now those two machines can communicate. It was like having 2 collective unconsciouses in the world. Now there is just one bigger one.

So it all makes sense now to most people. But back then in 1600, in that painting again you see the mainframe in the background, with the symbol of the galaxy in the monitor, thats the galactic mainframe, and they were saying it was not being used it had cobwebs on it. Thats because the network was cut.
Whats the moral of the story? If Beiber is Micheal, then he is an Olympian, but he is not a big G God is he.
But, if he one day shoots lightning out of his kazoo I will retract that statement.

Originally posted by babybunnies

Originally posted by groingrinder
Allow me to give this thread it's first flag. You have to be very careful when reading religious works that were written by men WHO DID NOT PERSONALLY KNOW JESUS. But since the supposed author of this text did know Jesus, I would put much stock in his writings if they are proved authentic.

Most of the books of the bible were written at least 100 years after the time of Jesus, but men who didn't personally know him.

Your argument makes absolutely no sense.

Yes, it does make sense. Read what you have written. It is the perfect truth from your own hand.

The Vattican!!!?Who do you think wrote the original text ?The council of Nicaea. Who was that? The Catholics.
Do you think they would favor a heretical text over scripture as they have written it.It will be seen as an ecumenical book like Enoch and simply ignore it as such.Like science does when you fine something that they feel doesn't fit into known history.I don't see any earth shattering changes coming.

reply to post by Rocketman7


So re my last post, how do you reconcile all of that? Well I found that investigating prehistory and chasing civilization back 2 million years with help from my family in space, and them drawing me some nice pictures on your planet, which I show all the time, by investigating all of that, it makes sense from a Olympian and Titan perspective better than it does from the mixture we now see in the world.

The story is so long it would take me 30 pages to tell you.

To tell you of the Matrix, and of how things work, and how all this stuff on earth came to be. In the background of that painting I showed in my previous post, that galactic mainframe, that, is the Matrix. It is projecting the atoms that make up this galaxy in real time according to laws of physics.
Humans are a personality file in that system, and their consciousness signal is transmitted into a biological robot body. That is how humans work.

It doesn't make us less human, if Anunnaki want to be on earth, in a physical reality like this, then they too get their signal sent to the brain of a body. But anyone can live inside those computers without a physical body.

And in that system is a virtual space called the underworld. And that is where you would find Mohamed, where you find Osiris' mom, she is the queen of the underworld, and where there might be a slim chance at the 60 virgins I don't know. But just like Blake, I have been there.
I went in to visit my mom. And when I did, Zeus was in there sleeping and had been for 2000 years.

Since he agreed to be Michael's dad, after pressure from Mary, his girlfriend, and Isis his daughter. Was he pouting or was it more like "I will be in the garage!"? So in this virtual space it appears to be real, like a lucid dream appears to be real. But that place is maintained in the computer. Most other places visited in dreams, are transitory.

So some people live in there because of the astigmatism still, of the time that David ran away with Hekate.

The noive a the guy, stealin Zeus' wife like dat. But she is one of the Seven Sisters, a Titan, Zeus is an Olympian, David is a Titan.
Its not that big a deal because Zeus married another one of the Seven Sisters right after. Set's mom.

But you know when they ran away together other people went with them because they wanted a change of leadership. One that was more free. They wanted to do things their way. It is sort of like a parallel to the Garden of Eden story.

Essentially people have the right to believe what they want to believe. Seek and ye shall find.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


The range is what I was dealing with,was in the link, and his lifetime, on Wiki. And if it was written just before Muhammad first went on his mission, and he had anything to do with it, I'd call it premeditated--which plenty historians already state of him. Was just pointing out that with that range, it could be written during his lifetime.

But if it is the furthest removed, it wouldn't phase me one bit.

The thing is that this is 1 potential propecy. That's like insisting that the book The Titan was prophecy--which I'm on the fence about.

reply to post by alphabetaone


Well since it predates Muhummad, maybe it just means what the name means - like
There's only one God and praised is the proper advocation.(for him)

Do muslims actually believe this will effect Christians and their beliefs in the slightest? Also this book supposed dates to the sixth century, the same time period that the quran itself was written, so its a hoax probably written by the same nuts who wrote the quran trying to discredit the bible which was written hundreds of years before this book.

reply to post by hadriana


Just clarifying the point of the meaning of words...

The Prophet said:

"...then He (Allah) gave Us names having our names derive from His: from His name the Praised One of the Throne (dhu l-'arsh mahmud) He formed my name, Muhammed, and from His name The Supreme, The Superior (al-Ali al-Alaa) He formed the name Ali."

Ibn Babuye Ilal ch. 116 page 134-35


Mahmud means the Praised or Praised One...ancient syriac is quite similar to arabic

So ok, the Egyptian Underworld, is a virtual space inside the soul catcher machine inside the moon.

And William Blake is one of the people who has been in there, and I can tell from his painting...
upload.wikimedia.org...

Since I have been in there too.

A few years back. And so then what it looks like is Muslim territory to be sure. Domed buildings in a desert like setting. There is even a place in the desert on earth that is in ruins that looks like it a bit. Mud brick buildings with domes and nothing fancy. In an idyllic Egyptian Nile like setting.

Now in the document by Barabas they say there are 9 heavens.

Well what is heaven? Heaven is a place inside a quantum computer system. Just like this reality is.

So then Olympian heaven might be in the inside of the moon. Terraformed, and left over from the ancient ones, the Anunnaki, a spaceship. With interior rings inside rings like portrayed in the Aztec calendar. Thats a cross section of it. But if we take a look you will see a monkey boy in the center of it...
upload.wikimedia.org...

So then Titan religion, and Roman religion and then Catholic religion stems from animism and the Gods, and they in ancient times treated the AI operating system of the Matrix, as God, and so then what they have in common with the Olympians is they both are on machines, quantum computers providing their consciousness, and both systems have AI's from the same company. Essentially they are Anunnaki AI.

So that ties the Christians in with the Catholics and it also ties the Titans in with the Olympians. Since everyone here is a descendant of the Anunnaki, and are on their machines. So here we are on earth, thats like a city, the galaxy, thats like a State, but we are all part of the same universe.

So the Christians possess the moonship, the Catholics have support of the galactic mainframe, since they are Titans, and the Hindu and Buddhist religions are also Titan religions, but Christianity has a bit of Anunnaki stuff in it. Since Zeus was an Anunnaki before he came to earth and became an Olympian.
So even his dreams had information. There is no way to prevent the transfer of information in this situation.
Doesn't mean it would be understood, but many people in the machine and those who are in the loop would have seen Anunnaki stuff over some period of time. Out of his subconscious.

But I assume that the Muslims were an offshoot that occurred when David ran away with Hekate.
And their heaven would be the Egyptian Underworld, or inside the galactic mainframe perhaps.

But as for 9 heavens well there may be 9 moonships in this galaxy, I have been in probably that many and they are all post apocalyptic.
So they don't look like the kindof place where you might play harps all day.
Some are recovering though and improvements are being made now that the network is back up and running.

The computer system is working fine right now, and well there are probably an untold number of places in the universe which you can get to through the network. Sent, or maybe even by choice. I don't know.
I just get sent.

Originally posted by Rocketman7
So ok, the Egyptian Underworld, is a virtual space inside the soul catcher machine inside the moon.

And William Blake is one of the people who has been in there, and I can tell from his painting...
upload.wikimedia.org...

Since I have been in there too.

A few years back. And so then what it looks like is Muslim territory to be sure. Domed buildings in a desert like setting. There is even a place in the desert on earth that is in ruins that looks like it a bit. Mud brick buildings with domes and nothing fancy. In an idyllic Egyptian Nile like setting.

Now in the document by Barabas they say there are 9 heavens.

Well what is heaven? Heaven is a place inside a quantum computer system. Just like this reality is.

So then Olympian heaven might be in the inside of the moon. Terraformed, and left over from the ancient ones, the Anunnaki, a spaceship. With interior rings inside rings like portrayed in the Aztec calendar. Thats a cross section of it. But if we take a look you will see a monkey boy in the center of it...
upload.wikimedia.org...

So then Titan religion, and Roman religion and then Catholic religion stems from animism and the Gods, and they in ancient times treated the AI operating system of the Matrix, as God, and so then what they have in common with the Olympians is they both are on machines, quantum computers providing their consciousness, and both systems have AI's from the same company. Essentially they are Anunnaki AI.

So that ties the Christians in with the Catholics and it also ties the Titans in with the Olympians. Since everyone here is a descendant of the Anunnaki, and are on their machines. So here we are on earth, thats like a city, the galaxy, thats like a State, but we are all part of the same universe.

So the Christians possess the moonship, the Catholics have support of the galactic mainframe, since they are Titans, and the Hindu and Buddhist religions are also Titan religions, but Christianity has a bit of Anunnaki stuff in it. Since Zeus was an Anunnaki before he came to earth and became an Olympian.
So even his dreams had information. There is no way to prevent the transfer of information in this situation.
Doesn't mean it would be understood, but many people in the machine and those who are in the loop would have seen Anunnaki stuff over some period of time. Out of his subconscious.

But I assume that the Muslims were an offshoot that occurred when David ran away with Hekate.
And their heaven would be the Egyptian Underworld, or inside the galactic mainframe perhaps.

But as for 9 heavens well there may be 9 moonships in this galaxy, I have been in probably that many and they are all post apocalyptic.
So they don't look like the kindof place where you might play harps all day.
Some are recovering though and improvements are being made now that the network is back up and running.

The computer system is working fine right now, and well there are probably an untold number of places in the universe which you can get to through the network. Sent, or maybe even by choice. I don't know.
I just get sent.

Somebodies been hitting the crack pipe tonight, rocketman is a good name for you, you sure are a space cadet

You know what it probably is, is that when the network was cut 2 million years ago, during all that commotion, Titans could not get to heaven so they created a virtual space inside the Olympian machine for them.

Some place to wait. If you are immortal whats the rush I suppose.

So when I went down there to see my mom, she was looking Egyptian, and riding with the rebels. They were on horseback playing rebels and wanted to play with me, and you know. We basically exchanged courtesies and that was it. She is fine and having fun with her friends.

I have heard people say they want an upgrade. A new place maybe something 1800's.

I don't know but as far as what Barabas had to say well what I think that was was they got information from South American relics, and decided to write something in around 1600 that they thought might be a closer approximation to the truth as they saw it.

Like Jesus got crucified but David killed a giant, they want to be on David's team.

A lot of the trouble came from the fact that when Osiris died, no one knew what happened to him.
Since I am he I know. He was not on the machine in the moon or the galactic mainframe, he was and is on the universal mainframe.
So it was like I disappeared out of the system and then Horus was born in my place. So that confused everyone, until I reincarnated this time and explained it to them.

So Barabas is a book. Written by some man or woman perhaps. I get my information from emails that consist of the universal mainframe drawing on your planet for me, passing messages from my family, Zeus, the Seven Sisters of the Pleiades, Set (Stephen) Michael, Isis, my uncle Robert, the Wizard of Oz, and a few other people and I know David and of course the AIs.

I have to go with things written on your planet. You know, it seems more credible to me, but I can appreciate that people do study all of this and have their own opinions, and their own beliefs.

What would Barabas say about my friends in the galactic mainframe I wonder?
upic.me...

What would they say about my Grandmother as seen from space in Peru near Nazca?
upic.me...

Almost my whole family sent me emails. Here's my Uncle Robert...
www.flashearth.com...

The cross hairs are in front of his tongue there. So, I know some of the Gods, but not all of them.
And as for Mohamed being special chosen well, I don't know. As I say I had never heard of him.

Maybe it is someone I know reincarnated and I just don't know the story of it.