Fundamentalist Christianity: a mind control CULT?

This is one of those TABOO subjects that most folks don't ask about. But anyone who has had a family member convert to Born again fundamentalism has possibly seen these changes in their loved one. It's almost like just after you go to a motivational seminar, you are pumped up and energetic about the topic of the discussion, and then after a few days it starts to taper off.

After seeing two close family members go this route, it was scary to see the change. They immediately changed their stance on many subjects. All of the sudden having a beer was evil, It was like they were in a trance.

Then on ATS you see the same sort of thing. People who claim to be Christians, spit fire and damnation at anyone who doesn't fit into the tiny, tiny little box of agreement. It's the most un-Christian thing I have ever seen.

The family members I speak of have calmed way down over the years and aren't nearly as condemning as they were back then. It seemed after they stopped attending regular services, they started to become normal again. This is a very dangerous secret society as they take away the personalities of your family and friends and replace it with robots who try to beat you with the Jesus stick.

I consider myself to be a Christian and have no hatred towards these people,but I am sad at the years I missed while casually avoiding these members of the family. These are just my observations and I don't mean to offend.

These are just my observations and I don't mean to offend.

Well you did offend.

Why?

Because you told the truth. I don't have much evidence of them being a cult other than the
evidence of the Christians themselves. You told the truth about how it changes people, and it
does. As time passes, they return to normal though. Its like with all religions you
have to follow some "code" or "set of rules". They feel obligated to do this and that based off religion. Why can't you just live your life?

People who claim to be Christians, spit fire and damnation at anyone who doesn't fit into the tiny, tiny little box of agreement.

They do, but not all. I don't like religion in the slightest bit but one thing I never do is generalize a entire group
of people based off a small amount of people in that group. Not saying you did though, just speaking
my mind.

Dear OP. I know exactly what you mean. I've worked with NBCs [new born christians] and I have found, that they seemed indeed as if they were 'high'. I asked the girl who worked opposite me a lot of things and she was willing to answer. She said that indeed the were high, high on jesus . She said as soon as she was reborn, it felt as if the light of jesus was entering her and since then she feels spaced out.
Logic would not come into it. As a matter of fact, I always gave her Satan's side [literally the devils advocate in this case ] and she gave me a big compliment by saying that my arguments are so good, I should become a christian...hahaha. They wish!

They also have the Alpha Course and that 'course' gives me the heebie jeebies. Strange thing is that most people are very easily infected by this, whilst a few people [me included] seem completely immune.

I deliberately say it like this because it almost seems to be a virus. Which it is, it is a dangerous meme, which propagates and has its own fail safe loops that make it nearly impossible for those affected to snap out of it.

Yes I agree that it should be called a cult, it is messing with vulnerable people's brains, always hunting out those that are weak because of problems, gullible or uneducated and hence can't compare their lies to anything else.
The only vaccine is knowledge. Reading as much as possible about everything, especially science, other religions, belief systems and theories. The more you know the less sense they make.

reply to post by network dude

Then on ATS you see the same sort of thing. People who claim to be Christians, spit fire and damnation at anyone who doesn't fit into the tiny, tiny little box of agreement. It's the most un-Christian thing I have ever seen.

Provide examples. Each example you can find will be one of two situations: Either the person is taking the name in vain, or they are presenting truth that judges by the subject they delineate. Rarely have I ever witnessed judgment coming from a true believer on ATS. The subject judges if we are taking the name (Character) of the Lord correctly upon our person. Taking the name of the Lord in vain is taking it apart from the character that is demanded by its legitimate application to life.

What we remember in all of this is the fact that we are all fallen. We are all sinners rising from our state of unholiness. Here are examples for you to consider of a conversation I had on ATS this week. Who is being judgmental in this case?

LINK Example 1

LINK to Example 2

More often than not, what you will find is the Christian clinging to truth that is self-evident. These truths are seen with spiritual eyes and entirely missed by the person drowning in the material world. It's obvious, from the example I provide, that judgement is not coming from the object delivering the message, but the subject of the message delivered. Examine the bias and fire shooting from the mouth of the other party and you see the error blinding the mind.

Christianity is not a cult. It is the awakening of the mind to truth. It is a mirror that clearly shows us our own image. What we do with that image depends on our willingness to see ourselves in the reflection with God. If we only see God as our judge, we miss the opportunity he provides for us to grow beyond ourselves each day.

reply to post by network dude


Sometimes newly converted people are just a bit overzealous, that is all. It's akin to a recent alcoholic or smoker that has just kicked the habit. They are very excited about their new life. Unfortunately, this wears off on most Christians in the years that follow their conversions. Jesus intended for us to not "lose our first love" and to remain pressing on towards the goal, but many backslide.

If a person legitimately saved your life by snatching you from the jaws of death, wouldn't you display some type of positive attitude towards them? Jesus saved us from eternal death and our attitude should be eternal thankfulness.

I hear you Network. My cousin is a prime example. I posted a Futurama quote on Facebook about Hinduism and reincarnation, and my cousin through the book at me damning me for posting such a thing. Fundamentalist s and extremists are annoying. They give Christianity a bad name.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight


Christianity is not a cult.

I Agree 100%. I am not talking about Christians here, I mean the Born Again version. I don't know if they all fall into the same "church" like Penacostal, or Baptist, and that is my fault for not asking the question. And I am sure it's very hard to see on the inside, but being on the outside and looking in, the cult similarities are very evident.

When it's just strangers it's very easy to dismiss it and just assume the people have always been that way, But when you have known them all your life and they change, literally overnight, it's frightening. At the base level, we as Christians are all the same, but once you mix in this inborn need to dominate another's faith, it becomes something much more.

When I was young, Mother took us to churches like this,, and being who I am,, I sat down and read the Bible,, which I think that was my saving grace. For many years I tried to reconcile the Jesus I knew to what was out there in the churches,, as they seemed to be two different things all together.
The memory that is seared into my brain is how I was 'Saved" and my older sister.
I had read the verses about,,, Ye shall be as Gods,,, and Jesus telling the disciples that seeing what he had done,, they would do even more miraculous things,,, how,, the number one rule is to Love your Neighbor after God, how faith the size of a mustard seed can literally move mountains,,, etc etc,,, so the View I recieved,, (self taught mostly reading the Bible) was radically different than the vision my fellow christians seemed to get.
My poor sister and I were taken to a movie at a church at around age 11 to 13 and shown what Hell was going to be like for sinners,,,
She was Scared fecal less!! crying and running to the pulpit to get saved,,,, where she remains today.
They totally brainwashed her. (And I think helped her become addicted to alcohol,, as the fear was too much for her) She hasn't spoken to her Gay Pagan brother in over a decade,,, even though I have tried to reestablish contact many times,,, she can't get past,,,""My Sinful life",,,
such is christian love by these types,,,
So,, today,,, after having went through ministerial program to become a ''preacher'',, I know the Bible,, from front to back,, went to many of the places that Paul started this religion ,, and can see that it mostly is based on Mystery Religions,, and occult truths that are Esoteric to the masses
I returned to the true fold,,, paganism,, shamanic as that really is the oldest human religion,,, but Science and modern psychology are important aspects to how I handle the spiritual.
I am definitely not anthropomorphic anymore,,, and fight that urge when it arises,,
my "Personal" relationship with Deity,,, as Christians say they have with Jesus,, is really the same as when I was a child,, innocent,, out in Nature,, and recognizing that I am part of this Divine world,, and it is Good.
Born in Sin crap is just that CRAP.
a way to control,
I would agree that many Christian factions are cult like,, if not really true cults.
That is why I stay away from most organized religions,,, Leaders want worship,,, too

so basically,, Have no problem with Jesus as a Son of God, we ALL are supposed to be his/her children,, don't think he is the ONLY way,, which is the crux of Christianity,,,

So,, my words to Christians,,, focus on the Red Letter edition,,, what did Jesus say,,,
quit listening to Paul and the Others,, not sure they are reliable Witness to Christ's message.
further more ,, investigate your christian History,,, you will be surprised at what you find.
Actually read your Bible,, instead of preach what Hate you hear from pastors and such,,,
Actually read Other Religions Bibles,, so you can mellow out,,, the Judaic tradition is not the most ancient of sources.
Know Metaphor.
Know the History.
Use Logic and admit the contradiction of your religion,, they are blaring out most of the time.

Join the 21st century,,, some stuff is Tribal crap,, admit it.

reply to post by Hecate666

Dear OP. I know exactly what you mean. I've worked with NBCs [new born christians] and I have found, that they seemed indeed as if they were 'high'. I asked the girl who worked opposite me a lot of things and she was willing to answer. She said that indeed the were high, high on jesus . She said as soon as she was reborn, it felt as if the light of jesus was entering her and since then she feels spaced out.
Logic would not come into it. As a matter of fact, I always gave her Satan's side [literally the devils advocate in this case ] and she gave me a big compliment by saying that my arguments are so good, I should become a christian...hahaha. They wish!

One big lesson I have learned about truth is found in the Seven Rules of Hillel, better known as Hermeneutics. One of the rules states that, "What is true in a greater case is also true in a lesser case by context." If we examine the life of a person making a change in their life, the effect can be compared to many lesser and greater cases. The effect of a pendulum is one. The refinement of metal is another. In the lesser case, metal is refined from a gross state to a more subtle state by a process of fire and dissolution. In the greater case of the spirit and consciousness of mankind, we see the same mental refinement. To a greater and lesser degree, our own personal mettle (vigor and strength of spirit or temperament b : staying quality : stamina) determines how the process appears to others.

What we are describing here is not the symptom of the truth behind Christianity, but he truth that we are all fallen. Ware all judgmental. We all take the name of the Lord in vain until we no longer have the desire to do so. It's a refinement process.

Malachi 3:2
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.

Earth is often compared to Egypt. Egypt is a picture of man and his journey from the wilderness of life to the promised land. We are charged with realizing where we came from and where the prodigal son returns.

Deuteronomy 4

19 And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars —all the heavenly array —do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the Lord your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven. 20 But as for you, the Lord took you and brought you out of the iron-smelting furnace, out of Egypt, to be the people of his inheritance, as you now are.

Our inheritance is the promised land (Universe / Kingdom of God). We are in Egypt in bondage, being smelted like iron. What do we receive when our inheritance is received?

Deuteronomy 6

10 When the LORD your God brings you into the land he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you—a land with large, flourishing cities you did not build, 11 houses filled with all kinds of good things you did not provide, wells you did not dig, and vineyards and olive groves you did not plant—then when you eat and are satisfied, 12 be careful that you do not forget the LORD, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

What does the universe contain? The kingdom of God. We get this for our reward when we leave this wilderness. Who are we? We are fallen children of God. He loves us enough to guarantee that we will be born again when the enemy is defeated within us. The beast is us.

Isaiah 26

19 But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.

20 Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut the doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until his wrath has passed by.
21 See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will disclose the blood shed on it;
the earth will conceal its slain no longer.

Life is this process of birth and death, even for the daily life of the Christian. We have not arrived when we find salvation. We have merely begun a journey where we follow the good Shepherd through the wilderness. We are still charged with the task of completing the journey.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Wow dude, so you truly are lost then...a product of what Network Dude was speaking of, an afraid mind-spinning world of reversals of all truth are what you have become.

The belief in SIN as having something to do with your existence...lol.

You have no idea what has gone on in this universe, but it sure has nothing to do with a supreme being declaring you are lost before you even are born.

Christians mean well, but operate in a TOTAL sense of fear, that masquerades as positivity in that they "Know" they are saved from "Something". They actually feel BETTER being attacked by some spiritual being, and it validates the confusion they truly feel. Gives a sense of comfort in the unknown.

Too bad that all of it is an actual path that leads nowhere, a true awakening will shock the socks off of the Christians, who have been beaten down so bad they likely are too scared now to try ANYTHING new, since God would find this unfavorable and commit them to an eternity of punishment for actually trying to REACH God.

Sigh......

Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Christians mean well, but operate in a TOTAL sense of fear, that masquerades as positivity in that they "Know" they are saved from "Something". They actually feel BETTER being attacked by some spiritual being, and it validates the confusion they truly feel. Gives a sense of comfort in the unknown.

Too bad that all of it is an actual path that leads nowhere, a true awakening will shock the socks off of the Christians, who have been beaten down so bad they likely are too scared now to try ANYTHING new, since God would find this unfavorable and commit them to an eternity of punishment for actually trying to REACH God.

Sigh......

Nice blanket statement there. My scripture says that true love removes all fear. I do not operate in fear at all.

And can you please cite sources for the true awakening that will shock my socks off? I am interested in how you became the first person alive to know that the path leads nowhere.

I anxiously await your reply.

Originally posted by micmerci
reply to post by network dude

 

Sometimes newly converted people are just a bit overzealous, that is all.

I would invite you to read through some of the threads on this forum to get an idea of the level of "oversealousness" that I am referring to.

But I do get what you are saying. And once the family members stopped attending regular service, we were able to have conversations about different ideas bad beliefs. But while they were being indoctrinated, there was no room for anything other than "their way". It was like having an Amway salesman who was trying to pay off his house with the business coming to every family meeting. After a while, you try to avoid them.

Originally posted by network dude
This is one of those TABOO subjects that most folks don't ask about. But anyone who has had a family member convert to Born again fundamentalism has possibly seen these changes in their loved one. It's almost like just after you go to a motivational seminar, you are pumped up and energetic about the topic of the discussion, and then after a few days it starts to taper off.

After seeing two close family members go this route, it was scary to see the change. They immediately changed their stance on many subjects. All of the sudden having a beer was evil, It was like they were in a trance.

Then on ATS you see the same sort of thing. People who claim to be Christians, spit fire and damnation at anyone who doesn't fit into the tiny, tiny little box of agreement. It's the most un-Christian thing I have ever seen.

The family members I speak of have calmed way down over the years and aren't nearly as condemning as they were back then. It seemed after they stopped attending regular services, they started to become normal again. This is a very dangerous secret society as they take away the personalities of your family and friends and replace it with robots who try to beat you with the Jesus stick.

I consider myself to be a Christian and have no hatred towards these people,but I am sad at the years I missed while casually avoiding these members of the family. These are just my observations and I don't mean to offend.

Its not Taboo, thats a beat up, everyone spews off at Christians. Fundamental or otherwise.
Listen to your fire and condemnation here now....

No different to the rhetoric from a fundamentalist atheist, sounds like political correctness gone wrong.
Its great that every one has freedom and choice and we all get along, unless of course....
You are a bloody Christian.
Muslims dont drink beer, dont hear you bitching at them.
The reality is everyone is different and how they choose to do what they like is a choice. If they change good, but why cant they do what they want. Every one else is allowed to.
Hypocrisy

Secret society come on sensationalism at its finest. Churches have open doors and allow everyone in and out.
Drama queen talk, why not confront their errors if you are a Christian.


Secret societies and it seems to infer you are a freemason by the mask on your picture. What a con.
Fremason bitchin about secret societies. Get a grip on reality

Let me just say it this way.

There are many in the church who are fully educated and experienced in utilizing mind control techniques on their congregations. From the pastor to the music minister. They use them knowingly, and liberally. I know this firsthand. It isn't hearsay from my perspective. For those curious about it, study cult mind control techniques, NLP, hypnosis, waking hypnosis, and so on. Then take what you know, and go to some fundamentalist, "full gospel" churches, revivals, and meetings like Benny Hinn, and others. Watch a little TBN too. You'll get an eye full.

However, unlike a cult, most Christians can still freely walk away. Some cults will actually come after you. About the worst you'll suffer from the church is a visit from the pastor, and shunning from your old "brothers and sisters". Except in rare cases.

reply to post by EarthCitizen23


Thank you for that post. I am sorry to hear the family was/is damaged by this.
Time is something that we can never get back, regret is something we should never have to live with.

reply to post by Klassified


Sure this is certainly possible, but isn't it equally possible that there are churchgoers with equal intelligence and capabilities or perhaps even exceeding?

reply to post by borntowatch

A fundamentalist Atheist. I am trying to let that one sink in.
Don't get hung up on the beer thing, it's just an example of how things changed overnight. And please don't get worked up about it. It was a personal experience and observation on my part.

Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Wow dude, so you truly are lost then...a product of what Network Dude was speaking of, an afraid mind-spinning world of reversals of all truth are what you have become.

The belief in SIN as having something to do with your existence...lol.

You have no idea what has gone on in this universe, but it sure has nothing to do with a supreme being declaring you are lost before you even are born.

Christians mean well, but operate in a TOTAL sense of fear, that masquerades as positivity in that they "Know" they are saved from "Something". They actually feel BETTER being attacked by some spiritual being, and it validates the confusion they truly feel. Gives a sense of comfort in the unknown.

Too bad that all of it is an actual path that leads nowhere, a true awakening will shock the socks off of the Christians, who have been beaten down so bad they likely are too scared now to try ANYTHING new, since God would find this unfavorable and commit them to an eternity of punishment for actually trying to REACH God.

Sigh......

Compare my responses to yours. While I am presenting the truth behind my platform, you are attacking me instead of the platform I rest upon. You make a statement above about a true awakening. Care to elaborate? If you read my last post, I don't provide my own thoughts and words. The Word itself reveals the truth. The reflection of truth scares the person who is running from it. Fear is not a part of being covered by the name of Christ. I am not capable, on my own, to walk successfully through this wilderness experience. The world around us is not in our control. The more we pretend that we can control what is coming, the more we see that we must rest upon the LORD for our journey.

Fear is removed for the one who clings to the cross. Counterfeit truth will always emerge in a mirror to truth. As you can clearly see, we are speaking in opposites. Here is an example of this within a different context.

Aliester Crowley (Freemason) said, ""Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"

Jesus said, "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." Matt 7:12

Intuition can tell you which truth is Objectivism and an example of taking from the world. The other is an example of suffering, humility and giving for the reward of others. Which is truth?

We know the person by their fruit. A person that takes is following the reverse truth. The person that gives is following forward with the suffering example of Christ. Suffering the work to earn reward always leads to true reward for all parties involved. Taking reward, apart form the suffering necessary to earn the reward, leads to a debt that must be paid. Smoke and you get cancer. Work a job to suffer the labor first and reward comes to you and your family. Either way, suffering will occur.

The belief in SIN as having something to do with your existence...lol.

We light the fire we burn by. We also have the opportunity to take the fire and use it for a light on the path to the goal.

Buddha knew this as well:

Choices

We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts we make the world.
Speak or act with an impure mind
And trouble will follow you
As the wheel follows the ox that draws the cart.
We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts we make the world.
Speak or act with a pure mind
And happiness will follow you
As your shadow, unshakable.
"Look how he abused me and hurt me,
How he threw me down and robbed me."
Live with such thoughts and you live in hate.
"Look how he abused me and hurt me,
How he threw me down and robbed me."
Abandon such thoughts, and live in love.
In this world
Hate never yet dispelled hate.
Only love dispels hate.
This is the law,
Ancient and inexhaustible.

Dhammapada (Choices). LINK

Buddha made one mistake. He eliminated suffering. This is not the point. The point is to follow the example of Christ and suffer forward for others. Giving is the fruit that God provides.

Acts 17

24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being. As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.

Originally posted by micmerci
reply to post by Klassified

 

Sure this is certainly possible, but isn't it equally possible that there are churchgoers with equal intelligence and capabilities or perhaps even exceeding?

If I'm understanding your inquiry properly, you think these techniques don't work as well on people with a higher IQ. It's quite the opposite. They were designed for the average and above intellect. That's why they're so effective on the majority.

However, some folks, such as yourself, Lionhearte, and Noturtypical, to name a few, may not be as easily influenced from the pulpit, or the choir, because your critical faculties(discernment) are in place. You aren't "religious". Your core beliefs at this point in your life are self-imposed. The corporate church isn't dictating what you believe and practice.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Aliester Crowley (Freemason) said, ""Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"

Jesus said, "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." Matt 7:12

I thought this thread was about Fundamentalist Christianity being a cult. There are countless threads on freemasonry around. Please stay on topic,