Israeli Night of Broken Glass: Africans attacked in Tel Aviv anti-migrant demo

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by MI5edtoDeath

 

Your post is pretty much correct.

What concerns me is the large black market arms trade throughout Africa and there's ALWAYS a handful of renegade Israelis involved as well as Americans and Russians selling weaponry to both sides.

While it might be labeled 'emotional'...I find it very sad for both sides.
If " infiltrators' are as bad as they say, then why ignore an opportunity to show a damaged people a new way of life..show them what men really are and what manhood means..mentor..include..teach...why revert to infantile and primitive behaviors that never work..never help.
If they are not all that is being said of them..why allow your own fear and experience of collective abuse..to choose your path. I have been abused too..I and many know the cycle well and its affects..Israel is one big affect....I and many also know the way out of the abuse cycle..inter personally..and I can really see no reason why those tools, appropriately applied to context, wouldn't work on a collective scale..they only require willingness...faith...and not any one religious faith..just..mere human faith and the action faith requires.
Its really hard sitting here ..watching the suffering..seeing the cycle I was once in being played out and compounded day after day..knowing the reality of a life free from it..the benefits of that freedom from and the joy of the freedom 'to' live..in peace..within.
I can only hope that when the day of judgment comes..the God that Israel holds will show the whole world how powerful He is..is one that gives them the same healing Ive had....one that ends this terrible cycle for good..that is to say..helps us see how not to restart it..enables us to never start these cycles again.

One can hope.

Ro

Originally posted by Viking9019
The Africans there have been causing a large portion of the crime there so i'm guessing this is their answer to stop it.

Well I suppose that's one way of doing it. And since it is Israel they can get away with it. After all, if anyone says anything about it, they are anti-semetic, nazis etc etc etc.

reply to post by bluemirage5


Seriously man, where have I said you haven't been to Israel?
Where Have I said every African in Israel is a criminal ? You keep calling them refugees for some odd reason. Most of them are NOT. Crime rate has jumped by 40% in that particular area of Tel Aviv.

“This thread is not about WW2 and the Holocaust”

it's not ? Than why the hell would anyone use this analogy ? Anyone with some history knowledge and a bit of decency will be calling this for what it is :African illegal infiltrators who seek employment in Israel.

“If our nations treated illegal Israeli immigrants the same way Israelis are treating these Africans there would be a major international out cry. “

Oh please, if those Israelis are involved in criminal activities, they would be behind bars, as any criminal should be.

reply to post by Rosha


This thread is not about domestic violence, it's about the African refugees in Israel

(but I'm sorry you have been through what you have)

I'm sorry but there is no God in Africa because the very (Caucasian) people who consider themselves "Godly" are destroying the African nations selling illegal weaponry, using them to test our lethal vaccines, starving them, sucking their natural minerals dry, etc.

If one goes back deep in history of Africa, what is going on there goes against the grain of what they used to be all about.

reply to post by gravitational


Let's get one thing very clear......

these Africans are technically NOT illegal infiltrators because the Israeli Govt allowed them in to Isreal. This is what most people outside of Israel don't know about.

There is a proper and decent way of dealing with these people; fact is the Israelis don't like them because they are BLACK......not so much because they are not Jewish. There are thousands of REAL illegal immigrants in Israel working right now but the Israelis don't say a word because they are WHITE Caucasians from Romania & Russia - they are the white sex slaves.

You allege crime has skyrocketed by 40% among those Southern Tel Aviv neighbourhoods? Garbage! Thats what the Israelis want you to think. A majority of crime in those neighbourhoods ARE committed by Israeli Jews, not the Africans. Yes, there is one case of rape pending before the courts - ONE case - all the others are rape crimes committed by Jews. Those neighbourhoods are INFESTED with prostitution and home to a very large drug trade organisation.......NOT run by Africans either.

Oh pleaseeeeee; yes there are Israelis sitting inside our prisons mainly in Melbourne and Sydney. Many out there on the streets who have'nt been caught nor picked up yet. Take your rosey glasses off. You'll find them working the streets in the USA too, mainly NYC and LA.

reply to post by bluemirage5

“Let's get one thing very clear......
these Africans are technically NOT illegal infiltrators because the Israeli Govt allowed them in to Isreal. This is what most people outside of Israel don't know about. “

Sure, you'd rather see them shot on spot by the IDF just like the Egyptians do.

“There is a proper and decent way of dealing with these people; fact is the Israelis don't like them because they are BLACK......not so much because they are not Jewish. There are thousands of REAL illegal immigrants in Israel working right now but the Israelis don't say a word because they are WHITE Caucasians from Romania & Russia - they are the white sex slaves.”

bull...you have the pretension to know Israelis by being a tourist in Israel or just by looking at a few YouTube clips. You haven't got a clue. Most foreign workers (Philippines Romania etc') have permits to legally work there. Very few crimes are associated with them, unlike with the Africans.
REAL African refugees however get asylum in Israel.

“You allege crime has skyrocketed by 40% among those Southern Tel Aviv neighbourhoods? Garbage! Thats what the Israelis want you to think. A majority of crime in those neighbourhoods ARE committed by Israeli Jews, not the Africans.”

And you know this how exactly ? Please enlighten us ignorant. I bet you know more than IsraeliGuy because you were hmm a tourist.

“Oh pleaseeeeee; yes there are Israelis sitting inside our prisons mainly in Melbourne and Sydney. Many out there on the streets who have'nt been caught nor picked up yet. Take your rosey glasses off. You'll find them working the streets in the USA too, mainly NYC and LA. “

Let's see now, according to this :

www.globalpost.com...

“Australia home to 60,000 illegal immigrants — mainly Brits and Americans - so where's the outrage? “
hmmm...I guess they are NOT illegal infiltrators because the Australian Govt allowed them in to Australia, right ?

How about this?

"Deputy Police Commissioner Gary Burns yesterday said police were concerned by rising levels of violence in the Sudanese community. In the past 16 months, Sudanese people had been involved in 450 offences, resulting in 258 arrests. "This is double the level of offending for the population of the state," he said. “

eye-on-immigration.blogspot.com...

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by Rosha

 

This thread is not about domestic violence, it's about the African refugees in Israel

(but I'm sorry you have been through what you have)

I'm sorry but there is no God in Africa because the very (Caucasian) people who consider themselves "Godly" are destroying the African nations selling illegal weaponry, using them to test our lethal vaccines, starving them, sucking their natural minerals dry, etc.

If one goes back deep in history of Africa, what is going on there goes against the grain of what they used to be all about.

edit on 31-5-2012 by bluemirage5 because: (no reason given)

I have never been beaten by a chosen spouse or partner...but that is irrelevant. I'm not saying it is about domestic violence Blue...though if you relax the context of DV and see it as a huge family sh*t fight..then yes, I suppose it is as these are all humans, one race, all family fighting against family. Unless one group can prove their DNA is not the same..we're all one family in the end.

What I did say was that I have been abused..and understand the abuse cycle..and I am saying that IMO, ALL of this IS such a cycle of abuse...the once abused abusing in kind creating more abused that abuse in kind. Violence, its use, its affects, its outcomes..is an abuse cycle in itself.

Speaking as a person who has lived in a cycle of abuse and lived outside of it, the pattern is as clear as day.

I also said, the God that a good majority of Israel believes in..... and feel debates on the instance or not of God would be better served on another thread as few in Israel these days stand openly on a platform of "chosen-ism." Those involved most heavily in the crimes being committed in the region are openly racist these days which is more properly labeled as simple elitism and these people feel quite justified in that..they no longer seem to need such excuses or justifications for their abuses....the cycle for them is normal...we are the abnormal.

Having studied the IMF's role in the decimation of Somalia and Sudan, also in Nigeria and other places I do agree with your view on the destruction of Africa and all of our role in it, and given the current push by Monsanto ( using Bono of all people) to force feed Africans GMO food and so sterilize Africans out of existence..I am deeply concerned too. but there is hope..Ghana for one..and several smaller nations are reclaiming themselves..hope does live

I know too, of many joint Israeli/Palestinian movements going on right now..also excellent hope points..and so I am not blinded enough to think Israeli Guy's views..or the views on these videos are the ONLY views in Israel...the fact these people were attacking their own people..for not being racists..speaks volumes..that there are people who DON'T buy into the abuse cycle or see it as 'ok' living there..people who ARE willing to stand up for what is right and that effort and courage deserves recognition and equal air time too.

I remember the result of a forced repatriation of Sudanese immigrants here to Adelaide..the entire city was up in arms in a thinly veiled purge of racism..and then the children came..little ones with no arms.no legs..mothers with babes etc...they shut up...very fast...many expressed shame after meeting them. Some didn't ..still refuse to even be in the same space..but that is not anyone's problem but their own. The more reasoned majority comprehending immediately they had to see them, that these people are not our problem rather we, are theirs..



Rosha

Originally posted by gravitational
"Deputy Police Commissioner Gary Burns yesterday said police were concerned by rising levels of violence in the Sudanese community. In the past 16 months, Sudanese people had been involved in 450 offences, resulting in 258 arrests. "This is double the level of offending for the population of the state," he said. “

eye-on-immigration.blogspot.com...

And you know our response to this?

Police have set up special groups for COMMUNITY POLICING..have inducted several Sudanese officers into the academy...are using Sudanese interpreters on their beats and holding community meetings with Sudanese migrant groups to address the problems being faced - working with these groups to see what can be done and what needs to be done. Where crimes are committed and offenders charged they are given diversionary chances the same as every other citizen, repeat offenders, jailed as any other citizen. Our community is ADDRESSING the issues not REACTING to it or allowing knee jerk reactions to it to bring down our entire society. We are as they are, talking, policing, integrating, mentoring. Not throwing bricks expelling, murdering.

While I don't personally agree with it, we have a mandatory detention process for all human beings arriving illegally or found here without papers. We suck up the taxes it costs to run these centers and DO aim to speed up the check in process for asylum seekers..its not perfect..its often wrong and too often children are harmed and I hate that..however it does balance and maintain a manageable flow...where an open door policy would cripple. Centers are not hotels but compared to what I had growing up in this country they are well equipped..on the main..those centers failing the standard and taken to task when exposed..we are doing our best to remain compassionate and aware, accountable and reasonable..to retain our humanity and keep humanity IN the process of organizing immigration refugee issues.When people became aware children were suffering in detention, family only centers were created, and now the law reflects a growing morality to NOT keeping children in detention and towards community placements- so towards non detention.

More..we are aiding African governments to over come difficulties insitu...working with teh UN peace corps and making a real effort in NGO's..a sensible if not self serving thing to do if we wish to stop the severity of the flow. So we are genuinely as a people, often despite our governments, working towards peace processes to reduce wars and the Need for displacements...not egging on Armageddon or more war.

We are giving them time to adjust and biting our tongues and restraining our selves, prepared to WORK towards solution's not creating more problems. These things are possible when you WORK for them and WANT them to work. It just depends on what you VALUE.

The thing that pisses me off most about racism..that makes it so insidious.. is that it blinds people to those 'other' choices...not only does it affect the victims..it enslaves the perpetrators too. When I see a people or group willingly enslaving themselves it SH*TS me as I know how easy it is to enslave yourself, and how long it takes to extract yourself from those chains...I don't wish that on ANYONE..even them.

You can call this view overly compassionate or too emotional or call me an ignorant too or whatever you like..its is only my view..the way I live not just think or what I type on a computer and if my whole society changed its value system and descended into the type of moral and civil anarchy Israel ( and many nations are ) is in right now..I'd still be here speaking out against racism and shining a light on the processes of abuse and self enslavement.



Rosha.

reply to post by gravitational


I lived in Israel for quite some time you twit! I Know Israel VERY well from North to South, East to West with my bloody eyes closed!

Get your facts straigth before you spout off.......these Africans are NOT illegal infiltrators, the Israeli Govt ALLOWED them over the border or they would had been shot.

Don't assume what's going through my mind, you don't have a clue! You know the saying, best a fool stays quiet than one who proves he is by opening his mouth!

Most foreign workers don't have permits to stay in Israel, a majority of them end up staying after their work visas run out. Secondly, it's obviously you don't know a damn thing about the white sex slave trade in Israel - these prostitutes DON'T HAVE VISAS in to Israel! Want to know why little is done about these women? Because there Police officers high up being paid off and the Israeli elite using the services of these girls.

Don't bring Israeliguy in to this; if I have something to say to him I'll say it. For the most part I agree with many of his posts on other threads.....I don't have to agree with everything he says or him mine.

Get off your PC and go learn.......ignoramus!

reply to post by Rosha


I won't argue with your last post, I'm with you!

reply to post by bluemirage5


With every post you add, you sound more and more like an angry little child.
No proof of anything, assumptions, accusations all over the place, generalizing, plain lies, fiction stories, and obviously a difficulty to read properly, as your replies to my previous posts shows.

I should have stopped debating with you, when I realized the analogy between the “night of the broken glass” in Nazi Germany and the current protest did not bother you one bit.

Now I'm done with you. Enjoy your new friends.

reply to post by gravitational


Grow the hell up. You will not win this debate because Iknow I am correct in what I say because I know these Southern Tel Aviv neighbourhoods very well.

Here's another article in today's Israeli papers of the crap coming out of Interior Minister Yishai's lying mouth:

www.haaretz.com...

1. Using rape and AIDS to support their stance against Africans is pretty darn low and irresponsible while ignoring rape by Israeli Jewish men.

2. He added "there is not another country that is as sensitive as Israel is to the rights of foreigners".
Is this guy serious? Yishai needs to get out of Israel more often and visit our countries and Dept's of Immigration.

3. He also said "Southern Tel Aviv has turned in to the garbage can of Israel."
It was already that long before the Africans arrived.

4. It also appears Yishai does'nt like little white Jewish kids playing with African kids in daycare.
My son took up a friendship with a little African refugee that other kids did'nt want to play with years ago due to their shared interest of soccer. Nice kid, nice family. Still good mates after 14 years.

The only thing worthy coming out of that idiot's mouth is that of detention camps; yes, build them and put them there like all other nations do while they are being processed for residency or deportation.

reply to post by bluemirage5

The only thing worthy coming out of that idiot's mouth is that of detention camps; yes, build them and put them there like all other nations do while they are being processed for residency or deportation.

I was with you all the way until you came out with this gem.

Under international law, Israel is obliged to respect the right of refugees and settle them if they face genuine persecution, regardless of how they arrive in Israel or whether they have identification. But the policy of mandatory detention for asylum seekers subverts these rights.

My problem is that I have learned from history and believe in the dictum of "never again". The difference between me and Holocaustanists is that I believe this warning from history is relevant to all of humanity while they see it as something exclusive.

Concentrating refugees fleeing persecution and natural disasters in special camps for the long term makes me uneasy.

reply to post by MI5edtoDeath

Under international law, Israel is obliged to respect the right of refugees and settle them if they face genuine persecution, regardless of how they arrive in Israel or whether they have identification. But the policy of mandatory detention for asylum seekers subverts these rights.

No, it doesnt. Immigrant camps is standard policy that is in place all over the world, and it is in accordance with all the rights of immigrants or asylum seekers. Better than being deported immediately, after all.

My problem is that I have learned from history and believe in the dictum of "never again". The difference between me and Holocaustanists is that I believe this warning from history is relevant to all of humanity while they see it as something exclusive. Concentrating refugees fleeing persecution and natural disasters in special camps for the long term makes me uneasy.

I see, but this concern of yours is not based in the rational. I think you just hear the word "camps" and automaticaly associate "WW2 concentration camps", thats all. But there are many types of "camps", or more like "institutions", and there is absolutely no reason to compare modern immigrant camps to WW2 concentration camps of death. Thats a laughable argument, IMHO.

Holocaustanists

reply to post by Maslo

No, it doesnt. Immigrant camps is standard policy that is in place all over the world, and it is in accordance with all the rights of immigrants or asylum seekers. Better than being deported immediately, after all.

Oh yes it does mate. Detention camps for refugees is highly illegal. There are only a handful of countries, primarily Western, that detain refugees indefinitely on visa violation grounds.

Why is it illegal;
Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Article 3; Everyone has a right to life, liberty and the security of person

daccess-dds-ny.un.org...

Against a background of regular resort to detention of asylum-seekers, this note is submitted both to draw attention to the increasing institutionalization of the practice and to inform more detailed discussion by the Standing Committee of the Executive Committee of the High Commissioner’s Programme on detention practices. It is hoped that the Standing Committee will again take a strong stand on the issue, in particular on the aspect of arbitrariness.

www.unhcr.org...

“Deplores that many countries continue routinely to detain asylum-seekers (including minors) on an arbitrary basis, for unduly prolonged periods, without giving them adequate access to UNHCR and to fair procedures for timely review of their detention status; notes that such detention practices are inconsistent with established human rights standards and urges States to explore more actively all feasible alternatives to detention;

“Notes with concern that asylum-seekers detained only because of their illegal entry or presence are often held together with persons detained as common criminals, and reiterates that this is undesirable and must be avoided whenever possible, and that asylum-seekers shall not be located in areas where their physical safety is in danger.” International Protection (A/AC.96/911m, para. 21 (dd) and (ee)), the Executive Committee

Israel's answer to the UNHCR's executive committee's concerns;

Knesset passes bill on prolonged detention of refugees without trial

Despite loud opposition, the amendment to the Prevention of Infiltration Law, which passed with a large majority, would detain asylum seekers for three years without trial, or indefinitely if they come from “enemy” countries like Sudan

The Knesset passed on Monday night an amendment to the Prevention of Infiltration Law, which metes out harsh punishments on Africans seeking refuge in Israel.

The amendment does not distinguish between refugees, unauthorized immigrants or “infiltrators” with intention to harm Israel’s security. In fact, according to the law, even people who are granted refugee status or permanent residency, but entered Israel without permission, will still be considered “infiltrators.”

972mag.com...

Interestingly Israel considers Sudan as an enemy country, there is no legal standing in internal law of this term unless there has been a declaration of war. Israel, however, declares persons and countries as 'enemy' in a unique and arbitrary way. Further still, if you are persecuted by this "enemy" country and you escape to Israel, you have a animosity waiting for you from a country you seek sanctuary.

Article 31 of the 1951 Convention relating to the Status of Refugees: Non-penalization, Detention and Protection

1. The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on
account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees
who, coming directly from a territory where their life or
freedom was threatened in the sense of Article 1, enter or
are present in their territory without authorization,
provided they present themselves without delay to the
authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or
presence.

2. The Contracting States shall not apply to the
movements of such refugees restrictions other than those
which are necessary and such restrictions shall only be
applied until their status in the country is regularized or
they obtain admission into another country. The
Contracting States shall allow such refugees a reasonable
period and all the necessary facilities to obtain admission
into another country.
[url=http://]http://www.spottiswood.com/ftp/sarah/back%20up/PACS%20127%20Human%20rights%20and%20Global%20Politics/document%20about%20detention.pdf[/ur l]

Holocaustanist is the equivalent of Islamist and Jihadist. The term seeks to describe fanaticism.

reply to post by MI5edtoDeath

Oh yes it does mate. Detention camps for refugees is highly illegal.

No, they arent. Some aspects of this practice may be against UN guidelines, some even mentioned in your link - if there are bad conditions or harsh restrictions in these institutions or if there is no timely review of the status of the refugee/immigrant etc. Otherwise it is indeed in accord with all the human rights.

There are only a handful of countries, primarily Western, that detain refugees indefinitely on visa violation grounds.

Probably not indefinitely, but there are MANY such countries, my country included, and lots of them in Asia, for example. This practice is common.

reply to post by Maslo


I showed that the detention of refugees is illegal and I also linked a few of many conventions and legal comment under international law.

You have refused to accept this proof which makes me think that you did not read the links or you may in fact being obstinate.

I suspect you classify those going through regularisation as being in detention but the UNHCR distinguishes the two activities. Regularisation and detention are two wholly separate things.

Even more devastating for Israel, all refugees are illegal according to their laws and subject to arbitrary detention even after regularisation and they have been recognised as refugees.

I think the conversation is over unless you can cite checkable references. Bye.

New video of Israeli nazi type mob setting upon Africans.

This is tragic for the individual Africans concerned but they made a horrendous mistake that they could live amongst the zionist horrors.

reply to post by Viking9019


Awful racist of you, mate.

Shame on you and those who starred this post as well.