Is an unseen planet skirting edge of our solar system?

Originally posted by alfa1

Originally posted by knoledgeispower
Source An excerpt from Wikipedia (see article for full details)
The Pioneer anomaly or Pioneer effect is the observed deviation from predicted accelerations...

Foul!
I'm crying foul at this one.

You've carefully quoted just enough of the article to have the casual reader of this thread pass by thinking there's a gravitational "anomaly" out in space, in a thread discussing Planet X and Nibiru and other rogue planets.
The casual reader will be mislead into thinking there is a connection between these two, because of the very careful selection of your quoting.

Now to be fair to your readers, how about you now quote the part where it says an unknown planet would possibly account for the anomaly.
Oh wait, thats right... there is NO SUCH PART !!

Did I say anything at all about it being because of an unknown planet? NO. I was simply posting that there is a Pioneer Anomaly. If someone jumps to conclusions instead of reading the full article, like I said to do, then that is their own fault.

This is what wikipedia goes on to say, again, not the full article.

Most theories as of 2011 point towards the mundane cause of thermal radiation pressure forces inherent in the spacecraft.[2][3] The most detailed analysis to date, by some of the original investigators, explicitly looks at two methods of estimating thermal forces, then states "We find no statistically significant difference between the two estimates and conclude that once the thermal recoil force is properly accounted for, no anomalous acceleration remains."[4] However, the apparent anomaly was a matter of tremendous interest for many years.

I posted this wikipedia information because if the Pioneers are a little of course then that could account for the reason why they can't see Planet X. What if it's smaller then Jupiter and we have it's size wrong that could also account for why we can't see it. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Originally posted by knoledgeispower
. I was simply posting that there is a Pioneer Anomaly. If someone jumps to conclusions instead of reading the full article, like I said to do, then that is their own fault.

Excellent.
Then we both agree.
There is no evidence whatsoever in the "Pioneer anomaly" to suggest in any way at all that there is an unknown planet out there.

Done.

Originally posted by alfa1

Originally posted by knoledgeispower
. I was simply posting that there is a Pioneer Anomaly. If someone jumps to conclusions instead of reading the full article, like I said to do, then that is their own fault.

Excellent.
Then we both agree.
There is no evidence whatsoever in the "Pioneer anomaly" to suggest in any way at all that there is an unknown planet out there.

Done.

I'm not trying to start a fight.

eriktheawful said

Since the IRAS, there have been several IR observational satellites placed in orbit. None so far have found a Planet X out there yet

So I posted a link from wikipedia that talks about how they aren't on proper course so that could account for why they haven't found a Planet X yet.

reply to post by Human_Alien


K, Could there be something out there ? Hell yes

Is there something out there ? The chances seem to be pretty high that there is, but there is no proof indicating there is one and definetly no proof of where it is.

Could this just be fear mongering ? Or a prank even that TPTB are pulling on the public ? I think that's the most probable. More than anything else. Their taking advantage of the hype and creating fear. That's just my opinion.

I've seen a lot of things said since this news article was first posted on ATS back on May 14th that show ignorance on planetary mechanics.

Usage of the word "Behind". I've seen this used in all the threads, and that is for the most part, incorrect. Planets and other objects in our solar system orbit the sun at different speeds. One planet does not hide behind another planet.
The correct word that should have been used in all of these posts is "Beyond", or more specifically: "Beyond the orbit of Nepture (Pluto).", etc.

Next, Pioneers 10 and 11 (and both Voyager 1 and 2). I've also seen where it sounds like people seem to think that these probes all are headed in the same direction, and that is not true. Take a look at the picture below:



All 4 of those probes are headed out of our solar system on different paths. Why? Because planets move, and as each were launched, the planets they were headed to had moved.

BTW - there has been no contact with either Pioneer 10 or 11 since 2003. Both probes have stopped responding since then.

Pioneer 10 Time Line
Pioneer 11 Current Status

It's been a large amount of time since anyone heard telemetry from either of those probes. If nothing happened to either, it takes almost 12 hours for the sun's light to reach them.

Looking for a planet. I've seen some very absurd posts in these threads, asking why astronomers don't simply point their telescopes out there and look for a Planet X. Do any of you asking this realize just how BIG space is?

IF a planet of substantial size exists out beyond the orbit of Pluto, and IF it followed planetary evolution, it could be in this direction:



That's right, a 360 degree circular direction around our sun. You don't just look at Neptune and then say, oh hey, let's look just past it. Planets move.

However, it's possible that if such a planet exists, it's orbit could be highly inclined, like Pluto's is. Worse, as has been suggested, again IF it exists, could be a rogue planet that was captured by the sun's gravity. If that's the case, then it could orbit the sun at ANY declination. That means that your search area has changed to THIS:



A spherical area all around the sun. It could be in any direction. So one does not just "point your telescopes out there and find it already!"

A needle in a haystack would actually be EASIER to find.

I'm not saying that the possibility of a planet out there is not possible. However, there still is no concrete evidence yet.

As for Niburu..........Such a planet would have to have a velocity that exceeds the sun's escape velocity (meaning it's NOT in orbit around the sun, and periodically comes into the inner solar system) to get from beyond Pluto to here by December 2012.

And as for it getting here by 2060, 48 years from now, go back and take a look at my first picture I posted.

Pioneer 10 has been traveling for 40 years now, and you can see how far out it is. Voyager 1 for less time, and even further out. However, their velocities are such to where they have achieved orbital escape velocity from the sun. Any planet moving that way would not stay in orbit around our sun.

ETA: By the way. Before anyone jumps up and says: "Ah Ha! I got you, because Voyager is traveling at 38,200 mph, and the Earth is moving at 67,000 mph!"
Please keep in mind that escape velocity for the sun changes the further you get out (because the sun's gravitational influence is weaker the further you get out). The velocity required is higher in the inner solar system than the outer solar system.
Point in case: Neptune is moving at only 12,146 mph, Pluto is only moving at 10,289 mph. In order for "Niburu" to get here IF it was as far out as Pluto's furthest point, by 21 December this year, the planet would have to be traveling at 1,436,910 mph. Way, way more than enough to achieve escape velocity from the sun.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Human_Alien

 

K, Could there be something out there ? Hell yes

Is there something out there ? The chances seem to be pretty high that there is, but there is no proof indicating there is one and definetly no proof of where it is.

Could this just be fear mongering ? Or a prank even that TPTB are pulling on the public ? I think that's the most probable. More than anything else. Their taking advantage of the hype and creating fear. That's just my opinion.

edit on 23-5-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

As always, I'm interested in what you say so please, finish your theory. Fear mongering why? Pulling a prank, why?

Because honestly, if I polled everyone in Walmart (a typical American, right?) I doubt they are even aware of this new find and if they are I bet they'd be nonchalant at best.
The write up and mere mention on this matter lately is so subtle and redundant that it's either overlooked or imbedded into the subconscious by now.

But please, tell me what you think might be happening behind the scenes.
Thanks my friend

reply to post by eriktheawful


That was very informative..... Thank you for taking the time to type all of that and now I wonder even more.....

What do we see out there in all of that space?? Whats told and whats kept secret?

AND something could actually get pretty close before we actually feel any effects...seen or unseen? Is that a correct statement?

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

That was very informative..... Thank you for taking the time to type all of that and now I wonder even more.....

What do we see out there in all of that space?? Whats told and whats kept secret?

AND something could actually get pretty close before we actually feel any effects...seen or unseen? Is that a correct statement?

You're welcome.

Depends: a 100 meter wide asteroid would have to get pretty close to us to be seen. It's effect on our planet would be microscopic, unless we were directly in it's path and it impacted.

A smaller sized planet would not have to get as close. Mars is smaller than us, and even it appears as a bright red star in our skies to your eyes.

A Jupiter sized planet would not have to get very close to us at all before it's spotted, and I don't mean by people from NASA or JPL, etc. Hundreds of millions of backyard astronomers would spot it as it got closer than Neptune or Uranus, as it would start reflecting sun light a lot better and would get brighter. Both Jupiter and Saturn look like very bright stars to our naked eyes.
It's affect on Earth would be catastrophic if it came near us. It could do many things ranging from changing our orbit to eccentric, which would cause the Earth to have a Broil / Deep freeze season, fling the Earth out of the solar system, or draw the Earth so close to it, that when it gets to the Roche Limit Earth would shatter and become a ring around the planet.
It would also greatly disturb the orbits of the other inner planets, and they would stay disturbed.

This is why us skeptics shake our heads at the idea of Niburu. A large planet coming into our solar system like that on a regular basis (3,600 years, or even 55,000 years) would have left it's mark over and over.

I know a lot of people say that we don't know if it caused disasters on Earth. The problem is, believers just don't understand the scale of the disasters it would bring. We're talking about the Earth's obit around the sun and proximity, where even a small change can produce ice ages. Niburu if it existed would snuff out ALL life on our planet, as it could make our orbit so that surface temps get above boiling water, and then later so cold that our atmosphere freezes solid.

reply to post by Human_Alien

As always, I'm interested in what you say so please, finish your theory. Fear mongering why? Pulling a prank, why?

Well thanks for the complment Human. As always I'll ablige you best way I can.
Of course, it just being a prank is the most remote possibility. However, I don't see either one of us, you or I, putting it past TPTB. So that's really the only reason it got mentioned. We both know the small band of people that are controling what we see and hear.
I simply put this with all the other threats that never materialize and figure that's what's really going on. In fact that may be part of what this whole 2012 thing is about. Just one gigantic age old plan written forword in history.
Shall we say.
This is just an observation of a another possibility.

Originally posted by Human_Alien
they are even mentioning the word 'Planet X' in these stories and this is MSNBC!

And thats all they'll do. Mention it.
They admitted right there in a nutshell that looking too
hard for something causes you to start seeing things.

"But it turned out that anomaly in Neptune's orbit was the result of bad observation," Levison said"

is exactly what has been talked about for the past 30 years from Sitchen, Lieder, Hazelwood and dozens of others and it's Nibiru.

Talked about? Yes.
Have solid evidence about it? No.

Originally posted by Skywatcher2011
reply to post by Human_Alien

 

Planet X could also be dubbed as a huge asteroid which would collide with Earth causing the end of days for human kind. Another clever way of the media covering up an impact with Earth calling it a planet which is orbiting our solar system. So who knows?!

What i find amazing is, earth has been here for 4 billion years and we're still here so i highly disbelieve any of that sensationalist garbage about it hitting earth. If it does what Sitchin claims and is as large as Jupiter it's gravity would have torn Earth apart the first time it passed by and sent it flying off into space. Seeing as how Earth is still here, we must conclude that all else is lies.

Originally posted by Vandettas

Originally posted by Human_Alien
they are even mentioning the word 'Planet X' in these stories and this is MSNBC!

And thats all they'll do. Mention it.

But don't you see?....this is in contrast to the "Planet X conspiracy theorist" stance they took only a few years ago.

Why is that?

Why is it that our supposition that a tenth planet is out there was 'crazy talk' and now that MSM is slowly breaking it to us to the point where it's no big deal.....it's all okay and no big deal?


What's next? They'll admit alien life is real too? Oh wait!......even the Vatican is pretty much saying that too!

All they're doing is dripping disclosure into the troughs for the sheeple to slop up!

And if any of you don't think they haven't found this elusive celestial body by now then.......your heads are too far stuck in the sand and I suggest you pull them out just a bit!

Can anyone substantiate this video? What is that at 1:02?
I have to wonder if more amateur astronomers are seeing this too, if legit and we just don't know about it !! Because after all we've come to rely on NASA...and SETI....and NORAD...and NSA...and the NAVY...and FEMA and all the other acronym agencies...to 'give us the heads up'


Where would an amateur astronomer go (online) to share their findings......besides Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy which reeks with government involvement anyway?




I think this was the Press Conference they are referring to:

Originally posted by Human_Alien

Originally posted by Vandettas

Originally posted by Human_Alien
they are even mentioning the word 'Planet X' in these stories and this is MSNBC!

And thats all they'll do. Mention it.

But don't you see?....this is in contrast to the "Planet X conspiracy theorist" stance they took only a few years ago.

Why is that?

Why is it that our supposition that a tenth planet is out there was 'crazy talk' and now that MSM is slowly breaking it to us to the point where it's no big deal.....it's all okay and no big deal?


What's next? They'll admit alien life is real too? Oh wait!......even the Vatican is pretty much saying that too!

All they're doing is dripping disclosure into the troughs for the sheeple to slop up!

And if any of you don't think they haven't found this elusive celestial body by now then.......your heads are too far stuck in the sand and I suggest you pull them out just a bit!

That's assuming that it's there. Which has not been proven. All we have is a computer model based up on a theory. That's not proof of anything, except that humans are clever.

We don't have our heads in the sand.

We have our feet on the ground. There's a difference.

reply to post by Human_Alien


Getting information from Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy is a step towards denying ignorance is it not? Truth being the goal rather than myths like those presented by the well known hoaxer Sitchin. Being dead does not make him any less of a con man than when he was alive.

Planet X has nothing at all to do with Niburu. I'm not sure why you even included that word here.

If Planet X does exist, it has no impact at all on us. It's just something new to add to our knowledge.

Not sure I got the part about the Vatican and whatever maybe having seen it. Why would anyone hide knowledge of a new planet in the outer Solar System anyway? They would not.

reply to post by Human_Alien



First video: embedding is disabled, but it can be watched if one goes to YouTube.

Comments: not very well done. They don't even know what year they are living in. They claim to have taken a picture in December 2012............


Percival Lowell calculated Neptune's orbit based on a limited data set. The problem was Neptune's mass. They had estimated it incorrectly. With an incorrect mass, Neptune's orbit has an orbital perturbation.
Voyager 2 arrives in 1989. Neptune's mass is measured to a much greater degree of accuracy. The result? The orbital perturbation goes away. There is nothing influencing Neptune's orbit, other than what we know of (IE the sun and other planets we know about).

Gomes article is about Kuiper Belt objects......NOT Neptune (can't anyone get that through their heads? Has anyone bothered to READ the article???), and their orbits. NOT Neptune!

Much of his work is theoretical in nature. We're not 100 percent sure of the mass of many of these objects, so their orbits have not even been clearly defined yet, as they have not been observed for as long as other objects. Nor have they been directly examined up close.
That will change soon however, when the New Horizons gets to Pluto, does a fly by and then heads out to the kuiper belt and can directly observe these objects. It will arrive at Pluto in Feb. 2015 and they hope to observe kuiper belt objects from 2016 to 2020.

Second Video: not impressed. I can loop someone's words and make it sound like something else too.

I don't have much to add but I just want to say I love reading your posts eriktheawful it's always so informative and I usually come away knowing so much more than what I started out with

Everyone can stop talking about Nibiru. We are already dead because of it, it has killed us multiple times already and reptiles riding on it are slaving the survivors.

Nibiru means gate or something and it could be Jupiter or Venus, but people don't want such boring answer.

And there are hundreds of large objects beyond orbit of Neptune, We thought Pluto was biggest planet there, it wasn't and suddenly new pluto-sized planets were detected, that's why Pluto is not planet anymore. And Pluto is actually binary system, Charon is not actually its moon, they are double planets.

Beyond Pluto's orbit is Eris, largest Kuiper belt planet. Its 25% more massive than Pluto, it could be Planet X. Its very unlikely that there is life, as temperature there is only 30 Kelvins.

And we might know more when New Horizons reach the Pluto on 12th April 2015, just 1053 days left
pluto.jhuapl.edu...

I have seen a lot of talk about this "jupiter" sized object lurking in the distant parts of our galaxy, going as far back as 2010 here on ats, (mostly as thats when i really started to research and read about such things). you can see the post i refer too here.. click me

What i do not get is why people associate the term planet X when used by the MSM or the scientific community to mean NIburu or anything of that ilk. The term when used by said entities is simply a way to refer to a unknown unnamed object or planet. It to this day baffles me lol .

a very interesting read non the less and i look forward to even more information on this subject thank you for posting.


thank you and good day/night depending on your location in this universe.

reply to post by Human_Alien

So it doesn't matter what they want to name this, categorize it as, under play it or over simplify it... this body, what ever it is, is exactly what has been talked about for the past 30 years from Sitchen, Lieder, Hazelwood and dozens of others and it's Nibiru.

Oh, but it does matter what we call it and categorize it as.

We don't call a moon a planet nor a planet a comet for very specific reasons. The difference between these objects is in their orbital charateristics. Moons orbit planets and planets orbit their parent star, comets are more eccentric coming from the outer solar system and crossing the orbital parameters of the planets on its way around the Sun. The definition of a planet is one that does not allow it to cross the orbits of other planets, Pluto would be the exeption if it were still classified as a planet.

Planet X is defined as a planet that has its orbit outside that of Pluto's and has no intention of ever coming into the inner solar system.

Nibiru would be better described as a comet or, better yet, a rogue planet as its orbital characteristic is more like that of a comet. Calling Nibiru planet X shows a lack of understanding of the difference between the two. If Nibiru were indeed a "planet X" then we have nothing to worry about as it will never get any closer to us, of coarse this would mean that Sitchin was completely wrong.

This logic also works for those that call Nibiru a brown dwarf or companion star. The theories behind brown dwarf and companion stars has nothing to do with the theory of Nibiru and lumping them together shows this ignorance.

I understand that it is easy to call Nibiru a planet or Planet X but doing this is in defiance to the propper definition of a planet. Nibiru would better be labeled as a Rogue Planet.