Obama’s war on coal hits your electric bill

The market-clearing price for new 2015 capacity – almost all natural gas – was $136 per megawatt. That’s eight times higher than the price for 2012, which was just $16 per megawatt. In the mid-Atlantic area covering New Jersey, Delaware, Pennsylvania, and DC the new price is $167 per megawatt. For the northern Ohio territory served by FirstEnergy, the price is a shocking $357 per megawatt.

Why the massive price increases? Andy Ott from PJM stated the obvious: “Capacity prices were higher than last year's because of retirements of existing coal-fired generation resulting largely from environmental regulations which go into effect in 2015.” Northern Ohio is suffering from more forced coal-plant retirements than the rest of the region, hence the even higher price.

These are not computer models or projections or estimates. These are the actual prices that electric distributors have agreed to pay for new capacity. The costs will be passed on to consumers at the retail level.

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reply to post by xuenchen

The only way to have them that cheap is to make them. From what I remember of potential output of a solar pannel, you need quite a few to run a house. But any you make over that, and hook into the system, the electricity company pays you.

How Stuff Works is a good place to start. I figure that the home made ones aren't as efficient as the professionally made ones. But you could use them as a jumping stone, in order to afford them.

Plus, there's advertisements for a company that will install them for free, as long as they can collect the pay of the energy. In our hurricane prone area, I'm thinking about that.

Wow and to think my subconscious mind has been screaming at me to develop my own power generation capability ASAP lately....

I was already committed to building my lloyd tanner friction boiler but now I'm even more committed.... I can't afford to pay 8 times what I'm paying now for power. For those of you who don't know what a LLoyd Tanner Friction boiler is here is my thread on the subject. If built right one of these units could not just heat your home but also power it all while only using a couple of 18 inch long green oak 4x4's every 2 days. Even if you are paying premium prices for the 4x4's it's still going to beat what we'll all be paying the power company soon.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Of course it will be the same three morons that do nothing but complain about the President. Let's just completely ignore the fact that the power companies should have been upgrading and reducing pollution all along on their own. The fact is if they had been being responsible they would have been doing it all along and not be crying foul when the Government has to step in and make them do it.

Instead of purchasing gas powered turbines that will more or less pay for themselves over the course of years in NE Ohio what does First Energy do? Hold an auction designed to drive prices up that is what. Why? Because when you have a monopoly on needs you can do that. Please quit crying whoa is me for the corporations whose own irresponsibility put them in a position that they may have to take a loss for a year or two but instead choose to gouge the consumers.

"War on Coal"?

Really?

reply to post by spinalremain


Of course they say it that way because it makes it more frightful. It should be more like Obama's lack of following regulation to it's final conclusion fails to see that the electric monopoly will look to further squeeze consumers instead of manning up and doing what is right.

reply to post by KeliOnyx


There are so many wars right now it's laughable. I can't even keep up anymore. When I read "war on coal" I nearly gagged from laughing. Can you imagine little guys in tanks firing upon the fireplace?

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by KeliOnyx
Of course it will be the same three morons that do nothing but complain about the President. Let's just completely ignore the fact that the power companies should have been upgrading and reducing pollution all along on their own. The fact is if they had been being responsible they would have been doing it all along and not be crying foul when the Government has to step in and make them do it.

Instead of purchasing gas powered turbines that will more or less pay for themselves over the course of years in NE Ohio what does First Energy do? Hold an auction designed to drive prices up that is what. Why? Because when you have a monopoly on needs you can do that. Please quit crying whoa is me for the corporations whose own irresponsibility put them in a position that they may have to take a loss for a year or two but instead choose to gouge the consumers.

edit on 22-5-2012 by KeliOnyx because: (no reason given)

Sounds interesting.

Can you elaborate with some details ?

Maybe you can expose the corruption.

I often wondered why the government didn't just simply somehow nationalize the power industries decades ago.
If the problem is so damned crucial, why can't we get the intellectual community to volunteer time and technology ?

And how exactly are the present government policies "helping" the majority of American citizens ?

reply to post by xuenchen


I'm all for new tech that not only helps the environment, but also secures a better operational future for our children. So this is one thing I can stand behind Obama on, something very rare for me. However, I feel the government should foot the extra bill. If they can bail out companies that don't deserve billions upon billions, and if they can spend trillions on black military projects, they can foot this bill too.

reply to post by MrSpad


I live in coal country, the coal is here, the power plant is here, where is the oil at???

and how would it get to the power plant??
and, how much pollution would be made bringing it here??? want to take about ship wrecks and oil spills next??

by what I've read, the fracking is causing earthquakes by the way!

As in the OP - These are not simulations or theories- these are hard numbers.

There is no wiggle room on this one.

Lots of people are going to be in serious trouble.

Seriously- can this administration do anything right?
It seems as if they are screwing us on purpose.

Americans are the most tolerable people on the planet- but there is a point.
When that point is crossed- dont have mercy on those who caused it.

reply to post by xuenchen


Wholesale power prices in Northeast Ohio will go up

The blackout of 2003 started in Ohio by the way. Our electrical grid has been in a bad way for a very very long time. And this is the kind of thing that happens when you privatize everything under the sun. There is and has been a need to expand and redevelop our power transmission capabilities for over a decade. But there is no profit just expense in doing so, meaning no motivation for private industry to expand our transmission capabilities. The same reason that these companies have not been upgrading power plants.

The technology has been around and has continually evolved to be cleaner and more efficient, but again there is little or no profit in making the necessary upgrades. And these are the things that those most notably on the right fail to understand. Do you think your parents really enjoyed telling you to clean your room? Or how about when you start noticing a problem with your car. Is it better to take care of it as soon as you can or wait around until it suffers catastrophic damage? This is the same thing if they spent the last 30 years quietly upgrading and cleaning these plants the cost wouldn't be as high as it is now and it would have been so small and transitioned it wouldn't have effected the consumer at all.

The left likes to throw out new rules to address the issue but never seem to give the rules any testing to see what detrimental effect they will have. In this case the rule is designed to motivate power companies to upgrade, effect is shutting plants down and just charging the consumer more.

Overall nationalization of these things isn't a good plan of action. I find myself with a great deal of disdain for that idea on any industry altogether. Mind you these are the same folks that will tell you "be responsible if you can't pay for it don't have it" "Why should the Government give you a handout". All the while expecting the Government to pay for the upgrades and new transmission lines. There are just things that should not be allowed to be run as for profit models because for profit goes against the very nature of the service. The most notable being Power, Water and Healthcare. All three of which have been heavily deregulated and privatized since Reagan. And none of which has resulted in what is best for the American people, lower prices. The problem isn't the regulation, The problem is corporate culture as a whole, because while corporations may be considered people the people running them are not held personally responsible for the decisions they make on behalf of it.

Originally posted by Auricom
reply to post by xuenchen

 

I'm all for new tech that not only helps the environment, but also secures a better operational future for our children. So this is one thing I can stand behind Obama on, something very rare for me. However, I feel the government should foot the extra bill. If they can bail out companies that don't deserve billions upon billions, and if they can spend trillions on black military projects, they can foot this bill too.

No the government should not be paying for the upgrades. If the Government is going to have to pay for, give tax credits for or anything else then they need to pay higher taxes or lower their rates. please explain the logic in the tax payer paying for these things so that this company can in turn charge them exorbitant rates on something that they need? You cannot have it both ways.This was the problem with the bank bailout, the tax payer paid for it yet largely got screwed by it. The auto bailout despite all the whining about it really was something that had an equitable return for the tax payer. If the taxpayer is going to be asked to pony up the dollars, and I have no issue investing in and helping these entities, I do however expect an explanation, accountability and tangible benefits from doing so.

My parents are trying to survive off of their social security..... they are getting some state(western PA) help BUT, they were informed three months ago that their electric bill was going from $65 a month to $101. Their propane that they use for heat and cooking went from $122 to $280 a month. But yet their social security cost of living went up a combined $35. What a good way to treat the elderly....

Why are we still using a pre 20th century means to power the world?

Beyond the fact that those with the most influence are going to make the most money out of still using that I mean?

I just answered my question, nevermind!

Derek

Thanks, Mr. President

Another reason to give you a pink slip in November

Solar panels will never be cheap till we cut the Chinese monopoly on rare earths,

As it is the Chinese are selling solar panels in third world countries for half of what they sell them for in the US just to block other maker from selling in these countries..

With solar panels higher volumes mean lower price. If china can keep US solar panel makers from selling out side the US by undercutting price they can keep the cost in the US up for US made panels because the US makers will have very low foreign sales volumes,
That and limiting rare earths to the US makes large US maker imposable.

reply to post by ANNED


This is someone who talks more:


These are the first 5 in building your own solar panel:





There are more in this series.

Yep, here we go, [ex] This year, the auction procured 164,561 megawatts of capacity at $136 per megawatt for 2015-2016 in the area that includes Chicago -- a megawatt can power 800 to 1,000 homes. That compares to $16 per megawatt consumers will be paying as of June 1 this year and $126 per megawatt in last year's auction for 2014-2015. Prices were higher in northern Ohio and the Mid-Atlantic region, at $357 per megawatt and $167 per megawatt, respectively.

It's getting more expensive for some power plant operators to produce electricity as lower demand coupled with low natural gas prices have driven down electricity prices.

Get your firewood ready! I don't know if many of you know, but as of this posting $16.00 per megawawt vs the identified $136.00 by the Electric companies in 2015, Thanks Obama.

Someone remind me again why in the 21st century we're still creating power with 19th century technologies?

I mean beyond the fact that there are folks who've amassed a fortune and carry a huge amount of influence due to that fortune, why are we still powering the world with chemical release of energy via burning ANYTHING?

Derek