To those who can have OBEs

Hi,

First I'd like to mention that I'm quite an open minded person. I'm not a die hard skeptic but I try to keep a realistic and down to earth point of view.

My concern is about out of body experiences or OBEs. I've read a lot on the subject lately (at least 15 pages in the sticky thread in this section by RiverGoddesss) and I know that there are people here who can have conscious OBEs. I've never experienced it myself but I did have some successful experiments with lucid dreaming.

So to those who can have conscious OBEs I would like to ask this : did you actually prove to yourself that your experience is real?

I saw an atheist web show on youtube the other day where they were talking bout this. One guy called in saying that from a young age, he has been able to have conscious OBEs. But being quite skeptic in nature he tried to verify if his experience was true. So in one room of his house, he flipped a card from a regular card game. Then he consciously went out of his body and went to the room where was the card and it didn't match...

Also from most comments I read, people are convinced about OBEs because they all "seem so real" therefore they must be true. I can tell you from my lucid dreams that they can also seem extremely real. I know that our brain and subconscious mind is very powerful and creative and this argument of feeling so real is not a good explanation for me.

Here's an extract from a great text from the Monroe Institue. It's very long to read but if you have a few hours I guess it is worth the time. The extract below is found almost at the very end of the text.

The unusual feeling of leaving the body is exciting and alarming. This, combined with the realistic imagery of the bedroom is enough to account for the conviction of many OBE experients' that 'it was too real to be a dream.' Dreams, too, can be astonishingly real, especially if you are attending to their realness. Usually, we pass through our dreams without thinking much about them, and upon awakening remember little of them. Hence, they seem 'unreal.' But waking life is also like that -- our memory for a typical, mundane day is flat and lacking in detail. It is only the novel, exciting, or frightening events that leave vivid impressions. If we stop what we are doing, we can look around and say, 'Yes, this world looks solid and real.' But, if you look back and try to recall, for instance, brushing your teeth this morning, your memory is likely to be vague and not very life-like. Contrast this kind of event to a past event that excited or alarmed you, which is likely to seem much more 'real' in retrospect.

Source : www.monroeinstitute.org...

With all that said, I have to say that the experiences I've read from people who achieved OBEs could have been some very vivid lucid dreams. So again, to those who can have these OBEs, how can you know that it is not simply a dream? Please don't only tell me that it looks "so real"...

In my opinion, a legitimate way to prove this would be to attempt something like the first guy talked about. This means something like flipping a card in a room and then checking if it matches while out of body. Another good one would be to ask a friend to write something on a piece of paper a place it to a specific place in their house. You should know that place (but not the written note obviously) and with their consent, travel out of body over there, check the written note and then call them to verify.

Or if you can have an OBE with a friend simultaneously, share some information on the astral plane and then call him/her back and verify you have the same versions.

Any of you ever did something like this?

Before I go, please don't think that I'm bashing the OBE phenomenon and those who do it. I'm fascinated by this topic and as I said in the beginning, I try to maintain a down to earth a realistic point of view.

Thanks for your replies and I love you all.

Patrick

I only have OBEs in a dream-like realm, usually when I practice visualization.

I have proved my experiences true by sleeping in various rooms in my home. They almost always initiate from said room. Not always, but usually. I have decided that the ones that miss are lucid dreams or dreams within a dream.

Originally posted by cry93
I only have OBEs in a dream-like realm, usually when I practice visualization.

I have proved my experiences true by sleeping in various rooms in my home. They almost always initiate from said room. Not always, but usually. I have decided that the ones that miss are lucid dreams or dreams within a dream.

Well that doesn't prove anything. You need to do a blind experiment where you don't know what room you fall asleep in. Even that wouldn't necessarily prove it to be true.

I'm not suggesting you do or don't have OBE's, I'm just saying.

reply to post by ExpandedMinds


The only time I have had anything I would call an OBE is when I was in labor with my second child. They wouldn't give me anything for the pain because I hadn't dialated enough, or something, and I was in a lot of pain. All of a sudden my perspective shifted so I was up near the corner of the ceiling, looking down at myself. It only lasted a few seconds and I couldn't focus on what was happening to analyze it, because I was hurting too much to think clearly. I don't know if it was real or just my mind trying to cope with what my body was going through. Maybe I lost consciousness for a few seconds, I just don't know.

Originally posted by ExpandedMinds

Or if you can have an OBE with a friend simultaneously, share some information on the astral plane and then call him/her back and verify you have the same versions.

Any of you ever did something like this?

Yes I have done this. On multiple occasions. I knew the experiences I had were real. But I will admit that getting validation was awesome.

Like your avatar by the way.

the could not see much of my bed room but i did go up into the hevens -ether- astral plane whatever you call it

i had been trying for sometime whith no avail until one night idont know recaled a visual tool i saw online that really helped and all of a sudden i was trying to do and then i started to feel twiching in my muscles and a rushing noise in my ears as my spirit began to lift from my body
im mean it was INTENSE! I recalled simaler accounts saying dont let the noise scare you and to keep going whith it. So i did i flew very fast up into what seemed like a heavens and was serounded by what i percived as golden masculine beings that merly acknowledged me thay did not comunicate .
So i said okey my bodys there but my spirit/soul is here let me try moveing my foot i felt my self moveing what seemed like my life-less body and that kinda bugged me out so i flew back down feeling my self enter my body was so strange . i sat up in bed immediately and smiled trying to keep my excitement to my self i had ben trying astral-projecttion for a couple of months never could do it sence then

been almost a year now
for what my account is worth - it takes time for soms people
jplaysguitar

Good question, Patrick.

People would love to be able to test the ability this way, the only problem is that to properly test it, you should be able to do it at will. So many people who have had out of body experiences, myself included, are in no position to test the phenomenon because we don't get consistent results. My last experience was around seven years ago, and I haven't had another since. Even if a person has them once every few months, it's usually at random. So as you can see, there's a huge difference between simply having an OBE and being able to induce one.

Honestly, I don't think that many people can do it at will. I sincerely believe The River Goddess' thread, and believe that "The Yanker" exists, and that he is a skilled astral traveler. Probably only one of a handful around this forum. This is one particular scene where judging a book by it's cover is useful. Anyone who frequents threads of a paranormal nature and throws out buzz words and spouts of pseudo-philosophical BS is just another idiot looking for attention on the internet. Look through a persons thread and post history when you see them make a claim. If it sounds too fantastical, they are full of it. It may seem like there are a lot of people who are confident in their ability, but I suspect they can rarely deliver.

But yeah, I imagine people have done this if they are skilled enough, and I've only read of one case, which wasn't really on a paranormal themed website if I recall correctly, in which a guys friend told him he had been able to OBE and lucid dream at will, and he asked him to prove it, so he put a sticky note in an air duct vent or something with a message on it. The friend never went in the room, didn't see him write the note, anything. He left that night, called the next morning, and told him exactly what was on the note. It was interesting to read about.

If I ever get to the point where I can do it at will, I will absolutely test myself this way. Seven years of failure is one of the most frustrating things I've ever experienced, because I know I experienced "something" and haven't been able to replicate it. I will say though, in regards to the possibility of it being a lucid dream, I find that to be a valid answer. However, I have experienced both. I have -never- had the same level of awareness and clarity in a lucid dream. The OBE was as real as me sitting here right now at my computer.

If you'd like, I'd be happy to hear your thoughts in this thread I made:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I made it to get the "Average Joe's" view on the whole thing, as I figured there had to have been a handful of people to experience it who weren't oozing new age fluff out of every pore of their body. The member "Realtruth" had some valuable advice, and I'd count him among the "Average Joe's" who have experienced something and have the intelligence to examine their experience from a level headed perspective.

Hope to see you around more, this section could use a few more folks like you!

In a recent Q&A with Drunvalo Melchizedek he speaks about using the Merkaba to go out of body, and verifying the experience for himself.

Question starts at 15:00 minutes.

: )

reply to post by ExpandedMinds

I guarandamntee you that if you take heroic doses of Things-Which-Cannot-Be-Named-On-ATS you will have repeatable OBE's.

Now if you are asking about natural OBE, many who meditate - as a cool down for Remote Viewing and/or searching for a deeply meditative state - claim to have OBE's on a regular and repeatable basis. I believe them.

ATS Poster Daz Smith et al

Personally, I have had one that happened in the middle of a RV session regarding the Alamo. I was transported to the actual combat and was inside of the body of the C.O. and as an apparition viewing the pre and during Mexican invasion action. To say that it was surreal is a serious understatement.

reply to post by ExpandedMinds


This is an excellent question since this i wanted to know a long time when i faced my OBEs. What i have discovered based on my personal experiences:

- Yes, conscious OBEs are real.
The reason for that conclusion is that i had five OBE's up to now which i experienced in waking state. There were no alcohol or any other substances involved and I was'nt tired. Air was fresh and clean. Those OBEs were not based on an accident like many of the OBEs initiated during NDEs (near death experiences).

After my first OBE which also has included a time travel aspect (back to 1600) i did a research based on the impressions i received during this time. I was able to confirm all elements afterwards by evaluating historical documents. I can exclude personal "hidden" knowledge for this facts.

Since the first OBEs where overwhelming for me i tried to dive more into that topic by reading books and doing excercises. I always failed with one exception where i moved out of my body and on half-way out i sticked with my arms in the back. I lay on the left side and I was able to see my physical body in front of me, my two hands still remaining inside the body where my forearms were visible outside. In the moment i started to struggle to leave the physical body I was pulled back into the body completely.

What i like to add even it sounds very, very strange:
Two days before i had my first full concious OBE I had a dream, where a "guy" gave me instructions how to focus the consciousness to be able to travel through time.

I also experienced dreams which a very, very similar to OBEs but there are some differences compared to those five OBEs.

The above mentioned five OBEs started to happen together with other paranormal phenomena 12 months ago.

Originally posted by luminosity

Originally posted by ExpandedMinds

Or if you can have an OBE with a friend simultaneously, share some information on the astral plane and then call him/her back and verify you have the same versions.

Any of you ever did something like this?

Yes I have done this. On multiple occasions. I knew the experiences I had were real. But I will admit that getting validation was awesome.

Like your avatar by the way.

edit on 21-5-2012 by luminosity because: (no reason given)

That's really cool! Could you elaborate more on this?

Originally posted by Morgenstern89
But yeah, I imagine people have done this if they are skilled enough, and I've only read of one case, which wasn't really on a paranormal themed website if I recall correctly, in which a guys friend told him he had been able to OBE and lucid dream at will, and he asked him to prove it, so he put a sticky note in an air duct vent or something with a message on it. The friend never went in the room, didn't see him write the note, anything. He left that night, called the next morning, and told him exactly what was on the note. It was interesting to read about.

If you ever find where you've read that I'd really like to know. And I did check you topic. Really cool. I think we both are very like minded. Since your main concern seems to be to recreate this experiment of an OBE, my advice would simply be (ironically) not to try to hard. Let go of wanting to experience anything particular, but rather allow yourself to experience whatever is present without any expectations.

Originally posted by Hazz-14
In a recent Q&A with Drunvalo Melchizedek he speaks about using the Merkaba to go out of body, and verifying the experience for himself.

Thanks a lot for that video. I would have appreciated that he tries the same experiment a few more times since he seems to be in good control. I know the odds are low but if he ever saw that book only once in the library prior to his OBE, his subconscious mind might remember it even if he consciously thinks he never noticed that book before.

Anyway, that's the first time I heard about the "Merkaba" and it's a very interesting concept. Any other people here used this Merkaba for an OBE?

Originally posted by Alfred2012
After my first OBE which also has included a time travel aspect (back to 1600) i did a research based on the impressions i received during this time. I was able to confirm all elements afterwards by evaluating historical documents. I can exclude personal "hidden" knowledge for this facts.

That's plain awesome. I'm a great fan of history. Could you share more of what you experienced at that time? And any reason why you went back to this specific year?

Same goes to AlchemicalMonocular about the Alamo.

Thanks a lot for your replies, I really appreciate!

I agree that you should be able to c heck it, which was something I personally wanted to do. You check it as you said, with other people, if you go out of body to someone else's home, you can check with them, did you make a picture fall when you went in to their home? When you look through someone elses eyes can you tell them exactly where they were and what they were doing at a specific time? (

There are always ways of checking if the experiences were real.

reply to post by ExpandedMinds


Sure, ExpandedMinds

PART 1
=====
OBE feeling
Before i describe the time travel experience i like to give an impression how an OBE feels to me. The easiest way to describe an OBE - i refer to the five OBEs i've experienced - is:

Imagine you're sitting on a chair. Now you stand up from the chair going a few steps forward. You're fully conscious: you're thinking/analyzing/remembering7feeling/seeing and you're hearing. And you're fully aware of yourself.

Now you turn and you look back to the chair. You see a body still sitting on the chair. You recognize that it is YOUR body but you don't have a close link to this body. You just know that it is your physical body, nothing else. You recognize that your identity is with you, not left in the body sitting on the chair.

That is very much that how an OBE feels to me.

When i did my researches after the first OBE happened i realized that many people experiencing OBEs during a near-death-experience (NDE) describes similar impressions.

OBE with time travel
When i had my first OBE (while awake) i went through the following states:

1. I layed down on my back, closed my eyes and started inwardly "thanking" for all the paranormal phanomena i experienced the days before. Just after starting with the first words the following happened:
2. A white light appeared filling the whole visual field. The light was growing brighter and brighter but was still very mild. I felt a kind of pull to that light and was happy and full of expectation what might happen to me now.
3. Suddenly the bright light changed to total black for a fraction of a second and then
4. I stood in front of my bed, stumbling a little bit. I focused my thoughts on this and immediately i felt stable.
5. I recognized that I'm now out of my body and was very excited at this moment.

This was the initiation of my first OBE. But as I mentioned in previous posting i got some "training" in a dream two days before. Based on this information received in the dream i was somewhat "prepared". I had no fear at all but i was very prying.

After looking around my bedroom and recognizing all the details i asked myself "What now?". I didn't expected any answer on this inwardly asked question but

6. I received the following sentence: "Mainz, 1640". Somebody - i didn't know at this time who this entity was - made a proposal. The proposal was to go to the city of Mainz (not far away from Frankfurt/Main Germany) back to the year 1640.

I intuitively knew that the number "1640" was a year back in history.

The idea to go back in time excited me very much. The city was ok but i wondered why this odd year? I decided to change the year to "1600". And i also remembered that i need to focus on the target place as precise as possible. So i changed the proposal from "Mainz, 1640" to "Mainz, 1600, center".

Remark: Mainz is the city where Gutenberg has invented the letterpress.

7. As i have been trained during the dream two days before i focused my concsiousness on the target and immediately my environment changed. There was a very strong but nice pull "upwards" with extremely high speed. A few seconds later - this was my feeling for the ellapsed time - i was able to see a galaxy below me. I thought that might be the milkyway but it looked stretched from my position. The distance to that galaxy which i passed was in the range of appx. 100.000 light years. I estimated the distance based on the diameter of our milky way.

During the flight which lasted appx 10-15 seconds based on my time feeling i asked myself how this could be. The temperature should be 0 Kelvin at the point I flew but it was very pleasant for me. I wasn't cold at all.

8. Suddenly i felt a further pull, now downwards. It felt like beeing in a maelstrom but it was very exciting, like in a rollercoaster. Finally the maelstrom stopped and i "arrived" somewhere.

This was the moment the travel ended and i stood at a place.

9. I looked around and i perceived the following remarkable items:

- I was able to look around to any direction
- The environment was gray like a city in autum at 6.00pm (i mean it was gray, no much light and foggy)
- I was able to identify silhouettes of buildings in a distance of appx. 70-80 feet around me. I concluded for myself that this very much is the center of a small market place or similar. I recognized some people moving and working close to those buildings. (They also appeared as silhouettes).
- Suddenly a woman appeared out of the "foggy" environment (appx 20 feet in front of me) walking into my direction, carrying a wicker basket. The closer she came the more details of her i was able to perceive. I was a little bit surprised because she seemed to ignore me. She passed rightwards in a distance of 25-30 inches.

...PART 2

reply to post by ExpandedMinds


PART 2
======
Then i remembered that she simply isn't able to see my "astral body" and therefore ignore my existence.

The remarkable thing with the woman was her clothes. She weared a strange maroon garb i had never seen before. Especially the headdress was noticeable because it looked like a bicorn.

Remark: Normally I'm not in history facts and figures at all, my interest is the field of computer science and similar topics. So i had no idea what she was wearing. On next day after this OBE experience i started my research in internet to find the corresponding historical documents confirming what i had experienced. After a few days of investigation i found a historical town map of Mainz of year 1600 showing a market place of this size and layout as i have visited. The "big point" was a historical information which exactly described the strange clothes of the woman which passed me. The document described the so called "Fischer-Frauen" ("fisher-woman") in the area of Mainz in the years around 1600 wearing this type of clothes with this bicorn-type headdress.

- After the woman passed me i looked down to my feet and saw a white chicken whick pecked some grains. The interesting point was that the chicken slowly moved step-by-step by pecking - directly through my feet without
any resistance, the chicken didn't sense me at all.

10. I "stopped" this visit mentally and was pulled back to my bedroom.
I "arrived" in my bedroom laying on my bed. I felt great and was very excited about this experience. Then i looked to the right and observed my physical body i left before. Now a further strange thing happened:

11. The "voice" previously recommended "Mainz, 1600" spoke to me again send me an information or better a request. The voice told me "Look what he is doing" and referred to my physical body. I focused my concsiousness on him (me) and i observed (mentally hearing) that he (the physical body) is just thanking for all the paranormal phanomena...

This was really exciting. I saw my own physical boday at a time where i just had left the body and started my time travel. I went back in history a few hundred years came back and all this didn't take longer as a few fractions of a second.

Remark: What i would like to add is that - based on all OBE experiences i had so far - the focus of the consciousness is key if we would like to change the time or place (environement). It is a kind of selection of possible states of reality, this is my impression out of this.

Originally posted by AlchemicalMonocular
reply to post by ExpandedMinds

 

I guarandamntee you that if you take heroic doses of Things-Which-Cannot-Be-Named-On-ATS you will have repeatable OBE's.

Now if you are asking about natural OBE, many who meditate - as a cool down for Remote Viewing and/or searching for a deeply meditative state - claim to have OBE's on a regular and repeatable basis. I believe them.

ATS Poster Daz Smith et al

Personally, I have had one that happened in the middle of a RV session regarding the Alamo. I was transported to the actual combat and was inside of the body of the C.O. and as an apparition viewing the pre and during Mexican invasion action. To say that it was surreal is a serious understatement.

Are you sure this wasn't a past-life memory? How can you distinguish the difference?

Those who lucid dream, what think before going to sleep ?

reply to post by sled735

Is this post real or only in your mind? Or both?

Originally posted by Alfred2012
reply to post by ExpandedMinds

 

7. As i have been trained during the dream two days before i focused my concsiousness on the target and immediately my environment changed. There was a very strong but nice pull "upwards" with extremely high speed. A few seconds later - this was my feeling for the ellapsed time - i was able to see a galaxy below me. I thought that might be the milkyway but it looked stretched from my position. The distance to that galaxy which i passed was in the range of appx. 100.000 light years. I estimated the distance based on the diameter of our milky way.

During the flight which lasted appx 10-15 seconds based on my time feeling i asked myself how this could be. The temperature should be 0 Kelvin at the point I flew but it was very pleasant for me. I wasn't cold at all.

8. Suddenly i felt a further pull, now downwards. It felt like beeing in a maelstrom but it was very exciting, like in a rollercoaster. Finally the maelstrom stopped and i "arrived" somewhere.

This was the moment the travel ended and i stood at a place.

Hello, i have a theory about this time travelling obe, and few questions.

The theory says, that the past times do exists now, the only question is, where in the space it is.
As we all know, the earth is emitting light to the universe. So it is possibile, theoreticaly,to calculate the speed
of light, with days passed and counting the rotation of the earth, to find the exact place in the universe where
this "movie" of the earth's past is being played.

my questions are:
-Have you heard any sounds while this obe experience ?
-Could you write us the instructions from your dream, where you were taught to do this timetravell ?
-Would you ask the voice, if/when you have this experience the next time, if anything from this time could be changed.

(i hope you understand what i wrote, english is a foreign language for me)

reply to post by Hombre

Hello, i have a theory about this time travelling obe, and few questions.

The theory says, that the past times do exists now, the only question is, where in the space it is.
As we all know, the earth is emitting light to the universe. So it is possibile, theoreticaly,to calculate the speed
of light, with days passed and counting the rotation of the earth, to find the exact place in the universe where
this "movie" of the earth's past is being played.

my questions are:
-Have you heard any sounds while this obe experience ?
-Could you write us the instructions from your dream, where you were taught to do this timetravell ?
-Would you ask the voice, if/when you have this experience the next time, if anything from this time could be changed.

Thank you very much, you described an interesting model.

Have you heard any sounds while this obe experience?
I didn't hear any sound as you would expect. The only sound i've heard was a kind of rush during the OBE experience (and the telepathical "voice" of my guide).

Could you write us the instructions from your dream, where you were taught to do this timetravell ?
The key for doing the time travel was to focus the consciousness. Assuming you have left your body then you will recognize your environment and you will think as normal.

And this is the point. Because it is the environment as you expect it and there has nothing chnaged much (in your first impression) you (most probably) won't have the idea to think of something unusal like going through a wall (which is possible). This is a barrier which could limit your abilities you have.

The key is: in the case you're aware that you left the body then you can start to focus on new things you're capable of.

For time travel that would mean:

Focus you're thoughts on:
- Time (as precisely as possible) and
- Location (as precisely as possible)

Try to imagine your target with all the above mentioned details.

In that moment the environment will change accordingly. It is not a complex process. It is just the consciousness which will be refocused.

Would you ask the voice, if/when you have this experience the next time, if anything from this time could be changed.
This is an excellent question and gives inspiration for further conversations with my guide!
I just did a quick check with my guide, asked whether it is possible to change the past during a time travel and he gave a first answer.

Based on this it is possible to change something in the past. (I refered to my own time travel back in history). But he told me i would never recognize this changes when i come back from the time travel since the environment i have left wouldn't have changed. The reason is that there are "infinite realities" and i would come back to the reality which i left originally (not to that which is related to time changes in the past)

This i need further to explore and validate with my guide in one of the next conversations.(...really weird)

OBE are not real. The us gov did tests in the 90s And set up scientific experiments. All faild. Dr sam Sam Parnia is doing a experiment on NDE google him.