Exclusive: U.S. lets China bypass Wall Street for Treasury orders

Originally posted by highfreq


If it's hiding its purchasing, then one could safely assume that China theoretically, could literally buy all of the U.S debt up and no one would be the wiser. Then they could call in the debt to completely destroy the economy or major political leverage. Either way IMO this just sealed the U.S fate.

They could in theory, if it was all up for purchase. But it's not. China can buy US treasuries that are for sale. They arent all for sale, nor are they all in the possession of the US.

www.businessinsider.com...

Originally posted by BurningSpearess
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

 

Also, I remember hearing this last week--tied in as well I'm sure...

......Fed clears China's first US bank takeover

The United States opened its banking market to China's biggest bank ICBC, for the first time clearing a takeover of a US bank by a Chinese state-controlled company.

Just days after high-level US-China economic talks in Beijing, the Federal Reserve approved an application from Industrial and Commercial Bank of China to buy a majority stake in the US subsidiary of Bank of East Asia.

The transaction will make ICBC the first Chinese state-controlled bank to acquire retail bank branches in the United States.

[urlnews.yahoo.com...[/url]

edit on 21-5-2012 by BurningSpearess because: forgot source...sorry...added

So China are having money made and sent direct to Chinese companies in America.. further cutting out the middle man and strengthening China is a way that normal companies cannot. China is a state owned corporation if you like. They are far too big to be treated the same but they are buying into America's debt to buy America. This is a two way bet - typical China. If USA goes down, they get hold of a chunk, already sold, and if America goes up, so does their buy-back cash rate.

China have positioned themselves well.

Get used to it - you guys want to fund a 1st world lifestyle without actually paying your own way in the world, and relying upon the US$ as a reserve currency to allow you to run whatever deficits you want - this is the result.

Serves y'all right

Originally posted by stanguilles7

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07


Or maybe they want to help america crash one year earlier by covertly lending her money that she will never be able to pay back and the chineese could have the perfect excuse to invade america to reclaim what on paper belongs to them.

China has no interest in the dollar, or the US crashing. If it does, then the money they are owed turns to dust.

If you loan someone money, do you want them to go bankrupt?

Also, since It's bound to come up, China does not own the majority of US debt. The US owns the majority of US debt.

Yeah but if they buy enough of it covertly(remember the secrecy clause?) they could easily claim imminent domain if and when the chineese want a piece of america. Wether they invade militarily or just claim possession of town/city/state/federal/private property is a different matter.

I do remember an imminent domain thread had popped up on ATS years ago, but you would have to do an ATS search for it.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07


Yeah but if they buy enough of it covertly(remember the secrecy clause?) they could easily claim imminent domain if and when the chineese want a piece of america. Wether they invade militarily or just claim possession of town/city/state/federal/private property is a different matter.

Hmmmm. You sure about that? Assuming you mean EMINENT Domain, how exactly do you think China, or any person or country holding US Treasuries could declare Eminent Domain in order to collect?

Originally posted by stanguilles7

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07


Yeah but if they buy enough of it covertly(remember the secrecy clause?) they could easily claim imminent domain if and when the chineese want a piece of america. Wether they invade militarily or just claim possession of town/city/state/federal/private property is a different matter.

Hmmmm. You sure about that? Assuming you mean EMINENT Domain, how exactly do you think China, or any person or country holding US Treasuries could declare Eminent Domain in order to collect?

So you are saying the treasury bonds are sold *as is* without any collateral stipulations?

If I go to a bank to ask for a big loan, the bank is just going to give me the money based on my pay? I don't think so, so why would treasury bonds be different, especially when the chinese can buy those bonds directly from the Federal Reserve or treasury...whichever is the case.

I don't know. It is all confusing!

They used to make a big deal about this kind of stuff during the 70's and 80's about the Japanese buying up anything and everything. That situation came to pass. I think the Chinese will have their moment in the sun like the Japanese did in the US, and over time their exposure will subside.

China has the building bubble everyone is talking about that is poised to burst at anytime. Furthermore, they have continuously been accused of manipulating their currency, and under proper evaluation who knows what shape the Chinese economy would be in? Most of the population remains in poverty with an emerging wealthy class as well. Any interruption to the status-quo either here or in China could lead to destabilization. All I am saying is, China is putting too much stock in the US economy, and all it would take would be another economic calamity in the US and China would be along for one hell of a ride. In other words, they are potentially tying the hangman's noose around their neck.

The US is operating a fiscal disaster with a deficit of over 16 trillion dollars, a significant brain drain in the workforce, and unfunded entitlement programs worth more than the annual GDP. I say keep on exposing themselves to the US economy and US treasuries, and over time China will collapse under their own weight. That is how see it.

reply to post by Jakes51


It is pretty natural for the government to NEED to borrow with so many simultaneous wars being fought out, jobs shipped to asia, workers getting underpaid and thus report poverty wages meaning very little income tax paid, the rich send their money offshore to tax havens.

If ordinary people can clearly see a problem with this, then how come the super-smart chineese can't?

Originally posted by stanguilles7

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07


Yeah but if they buy enough of it covertly(remember the secrecy clause?) they could easily claim imminent domain if and when the chineese want a piece of america. Wether they invade militarily or just claim possession of town/city/state/federal/private property is a different matter.

Hmmmm. You sure about that? Assuming you mean EMINENT Domain, how exactly do you think China, or any person or country holding US Treasuries could declare Eminent Domain in order to collect?

Here you go brother. I told you there was an ATS thread about this somewhere..........

www.abovetopsecret.com...

There are more threads as well! Just gotta search.......

FEDS GRANT EMINENT DOMAIN AS COLLATERAL TO CHINA FOR U.S. DEBTS!

Beijing, China -- Sources at the United States Embassy in Beijing China have just CONFIRMED to me that the United States of America has tendered to China a written agreement which grants to the People's Republic of China, an option to exercise Eminent Domain within the USA, as collateral for China's con More..tinued purchase of US Treasury Notes and existing US Currency reserves!

The written agreement was brought to Beijing by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and was formalized and agreed-to during her recent trip to China.

This means that in the event the US Government defaults on its financial obligations to China, the Communist Government of China would be permitted to physically take -- inside the USA -- land, buildings, factories, perhaps even entire cities - to satisfy the financial obligations of the US government.

Put simply, the feds have now actually mortgaged the physical land and property of all citizens and businesses in the United States. They have given to a foreign power, their Constitutional power to "take" all of our property, as actual collateral for continued Chinese funding of US deficit spending and the continued carrying of US national debt.

This is an unimaginable betrayal of every man, woman and child in the USA. An outrage worthy of violent overthrow.

From Patriots For America website.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I find it kind of odd that they would be buying up all these treasuries from a government presiding over a fiscal apocalypse? The numbers are absolutely terrifying. I would not do business or loan money to a person that cannot balance their books or has more debt than collateral. It makes sense to me. Who really knows what tricks the Chinese have up their sleeves? A little game of economic Russian Roulette?

As it looks now, if the US suffers another economic catastrophe? China is going along for the ride. They have over a trillion in US treasuries which will never reach maturity under the current economic conditions. Why continue to take on so much dead weight? Your guess is as good as mine!

Originally posted by Jakes51
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

I find it kind of odd that they would be buying up all these treasuries from a government presiding over a fiscal apocalypse? The numbers are absolutely terrifying. I would not do business or loan money to a person that cannot balance their books or has more debt than collateral. It makes sense to me. Who really knows what tricks the Chinese have up their sleeves? A little game of economic Russian Roulette?

As it looks now, if the US suffers another economic catastrophe? China is going along for the ride. They have 1.7 trillion in US treasuries which will never reach maturity under the current economic conditions. Why continue to take on so much dead weight? Your guess is as good as mine!

Unless China realizes (as I imagine they do) that the US's financial well-being is inextricably lined to theirs, and if the US collapses, so do they.

Which kind of implies that the US is not doing as badly as some might say. Otherwise, why would China continue to invest?

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

FEDS GRANT EMINENT DOMAIN AS COLLATERAL TO CHINA FOR U.S. DEBTS!

That's a totally false and debunked claim:

www.snopes.com...

Smart move
with current Property Values,
and as they decline,
we are inviting all,
to buy at this time.
And just like us,
they will owe more then the property is worth.

Originally posted by stanguilles7
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

FEDS GRANT EMINENT DOMAIN AS COLLATERAL TO CHINA FOR U.S. DEBTS!

That's a totally false and debunked claim:

www.snopes.com...

edit on 21-5-2012 by stanguilles7 because: (no reason given)

So why would someone hoax something like that?

Patriots For America seems like a legitimate site to me. More often than not, you get more truth from bloggers than mainstream media.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


So, which aspects of the Snopes piece do you disagree with?

Originally posted by stanguilles7
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

So, which aspects of the Snopes piece do you disagree with?

I will admit to not being an expert in economics since I actually look down upon the topic, BUT you should ask yourself why would the chinese invest in a nation with 16 trillion defecit and not much chance of recouping anything IF they didn't have an ace card up their sleeve.

Snopes isn't all that great a site either. I heard they specialise in propaganda. Believe what you want though!

This is kind of interesting, especially since I recently read that Japan would become the largest holder of US debt in the very near future.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07


I will admit to not being an expert in economics

No foolin.

BUT you should ask yourself why would the chinese invest in a nation with 16 trillion defecit and not much chance of recouping anything IF they didn't have an ace card up their sleeve.

Well, why would all the other nations who have deep investments in US treasuries? It's becuse the World economy is all linked, and the doom-sayers predicting total collapse are WRONG.

Snopes isn't all that great a site either. I heard they specialise in propaganda. Believe what you want though!

Oh, lord.

Originally posted by Jakes51
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

I find it kind of odd that they would be buying up all these treasuries from a government presiding over a fiscal apocalypse?

Because the US$ is still the world's main reserve currency. when china buys up African oil and resources they do so with US$'s - which everyone accepts.

When/if the US$ tanks the resultant financial problems will not be limited to china or any other debtor - they will be spread around the world in the back pockets of every nation that has been paid by the holders of the debt for services or labour or access to resources.

and in the mean time the Chinese are gratefully accepting the US's donation of vast amounts of wealth to enable them (the Chinese) to buy up as much REAL wealth (=resources) as possible while the US gets on with pushing money around in ever decreasing circles and pretending that Wall St = wealth creation.

I look forward to our new debt overlords,
while I was in California,
I learned their rules.
they are lot simpler,
and faster then ours.
They told me,
No Credit,
No Coupons!
Cash and Carry,
works for me.