The Truth About the Garden of Eden Story

reply to post by SilentKoala


You lost me at "truth" about the garden of eden story, that's like saying the truth about human super flight!

Originally posted by tgwright
I find this interpretation of the Garden of Eden story fascinating.

I believe there to be truth in many stories in the Bible, and when you consider that this is one of the most important stories that may give insight into our beginnings, it's no surprise that we should look at all potential interpretations of the meaning behind it.

I have to admit, you must question God's intentions here. I can't help but pull the story into modern contexts. If we just imagine for a moment that we were created by an extra terrestrial presence who wanted to keep us under control, this is exactly how it would look.

We were told not to eat the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge - if God wanted us to not eat that, why would it be put in the Garden of Eden? Why wouldn't it have been hidden? It must have clearly been a metaphor for something that is visible and accessible by everyone with or without God's choice.

The only thing in this situation that God could do would be to tell Adam & Eve that they would die should they 'eat' from the tree of knowledge. One similar thing comes to mind here, which are drugs such as '___'.

The government tells us that we will die or severely risk our health by taking such drugs, however scientists and researchers all make clear their abilities to alter our awareness, potentially giving way for enlightening experiences, much like the fruit from the tree of knowledge. Not exactly the same, but similar in my opinion.

Just my 2c.

Interesting that you should mention drugs like '___'

Regarding the 'whore of Babylon'
Rev 18:23 "The light of a lamp will never shine in you again. The voice of bridegroom and bride will never be heard in you again. Your merchants were the world's great men. By your magic spell all the nations were led astray."

.The Greek word translated as "magic spell" is pharmakeia.

5331 pharmakeía (from pharmakeuō, "administer drugs") – properly, drug-related sorcery, like the practice of magical-arts, etc. (A. T. Robertson).

Every new age religion, occult, mystical and ufology religion are based on "channeled" messages, often obtained through the use of drug induced trips. The whole 60s culture spawned cults based on psychadelic trips, and a lot of leaders subscribe to these religions. Leading all the nations astray for the messages are derived from the very spirits who lie, deceive and separate people away from God. Millions of people today subscribe fully to these messages ...that the Earth is Divine, that humans are just parasites, that Jesus was simply a man, that we are going to experience an 'evolutionary' change' etc. Scripture is clear that God is not found in this manner, that the Holy Spirit is the gift through which we communicate and learn about God.

Originally posted by solongandgoodnight
genesis is a difficult read really. there are so many questions as you go along. i think it is important to remember that everything in the book was passed down orally through many many years before it was written. point being, there's no telling how everything really happened. the stories could've been butchered through the oral tradition over time. just my two cents. (:

I didn't know that clay tablets and cylinder seals could talk. Many of the bible stories are summaries of the information found in the Sumerian tablets. 10s of 1000s of them, DUG UP so for others on here alluding to them being fake, (that would mean someone must have dug up a mountain, put the many many tablets down ALL OVER THE PLACE and replaced the mountain) have been found and the early books of the bible show a very uncanny similarity to them. So the idea of the "stories" being passed down orally is old hat imo

God said that they will die and so they did die. Adam and Eve are dead - have they not ate from the tree, they would not be dead. They have lost their immortality and live in a world where everyone dies.

Death is a concept tackled by all religions - people were always terrified of the fact that their beloved ones and they themselves would inevitably perish. Death is the reason most people are religious, because of fear of the unknown - death. Religions try to explain death and so according to Bible there is a place where death does not exist.

Your dog, child, wife, mom, dad, you - will all perish. If you think about it long and hard enough, you come up with stuff like Bible.

reply to post by seamus


G'day seamus. An interesting take on it but re this part of your explaination, "(note, this source is not the authoritarian himself; the authoritarian is merely the faithful servant of the Infinite). ", if this authoritarian is only a faithful servant, how come IT is referred to as god? Is it a fake?, Is it a LIAR? hey, hang on, that what it seemed to be in the OP too, wow, sure sounds like IT is a top thing. Pretending to be the be all and end all of everything when, by what you say, it is only something elses' lacky

reply to post by SilentKoala


they did die... what they were before they ate the fruit... that died. I don't know how you cannot see that. If you really think that we became "gods".. think of the state we are in and tell me if we did indeed became "gods"

death was introduced upon the world upon adam and eves sin. God killed animals to make them clothing. at that instance death was introduced into the world due to adam and eves sin.

had they not listened to the serpent that would have not happened. since day one man had a choice, they chose death.

reply to post by WhoKnows100


I also find it interesting that you bring up '___' , because before our bodies became truly physical humans had access to untold wealth of knowledge from our pineal gland and the mind;s eye ,,the chakra related to this . You mentiond the light on the rod , well apparently humans , i say humans I mean proto humans had a protrusion from their forehead with a light on it which was the manifestation of our pineal gland /chakra , and as our bodies became more physical this dissapeared and our skulls solidified and the chakra was then contained in the skull cavity and our energy was blocked , the light went out or was dimmed!

reply to post by anoncoholic

I'm sorry you felt I was playing semantic games. I can understand why you might interpret it that way currently thought. Merely trying to share our perspectives to see what clicks in either direction. Since we're all ultimately connected it makes no difference to me it is you who winds up with their perspective expanded or me... at the end of the day it benefits all of us.

Perhaps you can help me see your perspective by starting to list things you KNOW to be absolutely invariably true?

Originally posted by anoncoholic
you choose to play a game of semantics and yet how can you reconcile in your logic that non-believers even have Faith? Perhaps unto themselves but that isn't Faith, that is being self-righteous in rejecting God because they see themselves as the omnipotent.

They have faith in their awareness and belief system they have built up from their awareness and their experiences. Just as you have done. You are currently espousing your own version of omnipotence in that you feel you have enough omnipotence to know for a fact you aren't involved in equal self delusion of the very people you are judging.

You claim to be omnipotent to know what ways in which the definition of God you have constructed will use people and won't... to claim to know the "self-righteous" person isn't doing the very work in helping people cease rejecting God/Tao/Infinity/The Universe. That they are not in fact an angel in disguise who knows exactly what they are doing and why... knowing it is truly Good in the end despite appearances to our limited views and understandings as men.

You claim to be omnipotent enough to KNOW that every one of us who you have interacted with in your entire life are not simply angels in disguise playing a role for you, and that once you finally return back "home" with God will finally understand. To claim to know you aren't the only "fallen" one here, and all the rest of us are simply showing you options to choose from. To claim to know that we aren't all God in disguise acting for your benefit and you're the sucker at the poker table who sees self-righteousness in the non-believers without knowing whether they are such true believers that they are capable of taking on harder missions (roles/characters to play) in order to reach you.

I think people should instead of trying to understand the why of it, instead ask the when of it and see the truth behind why God still waits before passing judgment upon man. The reason should be simple enough to understand... God is waiting for a particular event to grant as many as possible the gift of life. AT any time God could have drawn that line where all who would come to Him will and those who won't never would.

That event is forthcoming and all will know when it happens...

Careful... your omnipotence is showing.

Perhaps he's just waiting for you to stop clinging to the belief there are others out there needing judgement passed on them?

Namaste

ive always said if satan is the master of deception then maybe he is actually playing the "god" and fooling everyone. Judging by gods cruel actions in the bible he doesnt seem like a very nice person (or thing whatever)

But it only matters if any of the fairy tale is true, we all know now that god and satan were just names of alien commanders

reply to post by anoncoholic


So, a book written by man, interpreting stories told/written over time by other men, is considered to be truth, all the while you denote the OP's theory and beliefs as being nothing but absolute falsified trash? Please tell me how you're not hypocritical and just a closed-minded, "God" fearing Christian?

The fact is, the bible is a story. Misinterpreted over thousands of years, written by many, many people. I believe is so far from it's original form that nothing in it will ever be considered as "fact". It's no different from preachers/priests/etc etc these days WRITING their own interpretations on the side of the bible verses. Spouting what they -personally- believe the story means. The OP did nothing more than what the people who wrote the bible, or preach the bible did. He came to a personal opinionated conclusion about the story and perceives it as truth. just like religious people do. For being the word of "God", this crap is way to metaphorical for anyone to understand, and most of it can be put into any scenario being played out by an individual or group. It's like a psychics reading, they leave everything so open that they can play their words into any situation.

Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
reply to post by Bleeeeep

 

Thank you for the answer - I do understand what you were saying to the OP now

If I may answer?

They key to this interpretation lies in the actual hebrew word "arom."
The Torah can be read a number of ways, and certain words being repeated over and over in a short story tend to mean another layer to the story within Judaism.

So, in this story, "arom" is repeated far too many times. One meaning for arom is "naked."
Another meaning for "arom" is "cunning."
When you read the story in hebrew, you find that the nakedness of Adam and Eve, and the cunning of the serpent, are both described using the word "arom."

So what have we here?

edit on 21-5-2012 by CodyOutlaw because: (no reason given)

I know it's such a bore to repeat oneself, but I'm wondering if anyone would like to discuss this?
The only difference one can find, is a tiny little diacritical mark.

Another thing to consider, is that Hebrew letters on their own can hold a meaning. So, there is yet another way to interpret the Torah.

Also, as to the accusation that Sumerian tablets are faked? I am a professor of ancient near eastern religions. I have studied and examined the tablets, and I have been to the sites of discovery. This is a false accusation.

If we can dispense with false accusations, we could have a rather wonderful discussion.
If not, I'm afraid I'll feel like I'm dealing with zealotous preachers, and I shall bow out of such a discussion.

reply to post by SassyCat


He said for in the DAY they eat thereof they shall surely die. Adam had about 339,450 days according to our current calendar system(which I realize was obviously not used back then, thanks Sherlock), based off of 930 year life span. Spin this any way you want devout Christians. There is no difference in the behavior exhibited by God in the Garden of Eden, and the Government of today. On a site for Denying Ignorance, I'm sure you could see how much the corruption of the latter is true.

reply to post by WhoKnows100

Interesting that you should mention drugs like '___'

Regarding the 'whore of Babylon'
Rev 18:23 "The light of a lamp will never shine in you again. The voice of bridegroom and bride will never be heard in you again. Your merchants were the world's great men. By your magic spell all the nations were led astray."

.The Greek word translated as "magic spell" is pharmakeia.

5331 pharmakeía (from pharmakeuō, "administer drugs") – properly, drug-related sorcery, like the practice of magical-arts, etc. (A. T. Robertson).

Every new age religion, occult, mystical and ufology religion are based on "channeled" messages, often obtained through the use of drug induced trips. The whole 60s culture spawned cults based on psychadelic trips, and a lot of leaders subscribe to these religions. Leading all the nations astray for the messages are derived from the very spirits who lie, deceive and separate people away from God. Millions of people today subscribe fully to these messages ...that the Earth is Divine, that humans are just parasites, that Jesus was simply a man, that we are going to experience an 'evolutionary' change' etc. Scripture is clear that God is not found in this manner, that the Holy Spirit is the gift through which we communicate and learn about God.

Wow! Great post. I remember reading this interpretation in a prophecy book several years ago. I forgot about that. This information is even more relevant today. If we tie this back to the garden story, God gave the fruit in the garden for us to use. The one fruit was the fruit of knowledge. From my perspective, the fruit of knowledge is technology. What is technology? It's a fruit we grow ourselves. It's transmutation of the fruit God gave into another form.

If we then return to Revelation 13, we see that the mark of the beast is 666 (Carbon). Carbon has 6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons. Most of of our final technology consists of the transmutation of carbon into energy or products that harm the earth. God's technology gives. Ours takes. God's fruit was perfected. Ours consumes more than it gives.

How do we overcome? Nitrogen is 777 and Oxygen is 888. God's number is 777 in the Bible as the repeated triple heptadic number. Christ's number is 888. The breath of God is used to relate the Word of God. It's also what we must preserve to stay alive on this planet.

Jesus in Gematria = Jesus = IhsouV = 10+8+200+70+400+200 = 888

JESUS' GOSPEL = 888 (Mark 1:1, 14-15)

RIGHTEOUS GOD = 888 (Ps 7:9)

SAVED IN JESUS = 888 (2 Tim 1:9)

JESUS' CROSS = 888 (Jn 19:19; Heb 12:2; Gal 6:14)

FINISHED CROSS = 888 (Jn 19:30)

JESUS FORGAVE = 888 (Lk 23:34)

SPIRIT BIRTH = 888 (Jn 3:5-8; Rev 21:6, 22:17)

GOD'S ANOINTING = 888 (1 Jn 2:27)

It's interesting to note that 999 is Fluorine. This element is used for the enrichment of Uranium. It's becomes fluoride in our toothpaste, which calcifies our pineal gland. Mixed with carbon and we get fluorocarbons. Satan tries to rise above God. He also mirrors and reverses truth. 666 and 999 are mirrored twice.

I didn't need '___' to figure this out. I just needed to search God's word in prayer.

Wow.
Your OP has taken delusion to a whole new level.
Between this thread & the "Jesus Was Gay" thread, I feel like I need to go scrub my eyes with bleach.

For what it's worth now that we've amassed 10 pages of discussion on this drivel, I will share my point of view which I stated in a previous thread a few weeks ago. I do this with the intent and hope that the person who needs to read it will find it and it will help to lift the veil of deceit and lead them on to further Truths. It's quite pithy, so you may need to read it more than once, and contemplate it for a while:

The most articulate epiphanies I've experienced about God's nature and His feelings about us have been through my own children.
I could write for days on how it's helped me overcome doubt induced by my attempts to intellectualize spiritual things and reason them to death.
Human reason is distorted by our finite and often self-centered perspective. Reason alone cannot figure out the meaning to life, and cannot comprehend who God is beyond the simple awareness that He exists.

We just recently moved to a new house and two weeks after we moved here, the man accross the street's brother moved in with him.

He also happens to be a registered sex offender.
Pornographic images of little girls on the internet.
I have 3 daughters under the age of 10.

My middle child ran out in the yard buck naked a few days ago after I had already warned her several times not to ever go outside in her panties or without a shirt on.-- (We are used to living like hillbillies in the country, so my children are used to being barefoot and running around in their underwear.--) My husband and I both freaked out and started screaming at her. She was completely terrified and almost inconsolable over the way we acted towards her because we've never done that before.
In her little mind, she couldn't understand why we were so angry with her. What A-holes we must be for getting so bent out of shape over something like that, right?

But the reality was, in our mind, all we could think about was the utter horror of some sick pervert looking at our child without clothes on and getting a hard-on. It makes me want to vomit right now.
The simple truth she didn't understand was that our reaction was solely due to the sheer love and adoration we have for our baby. How do you explain a grown man looking at pornography of children to a 4 year-old little girl? You don't, because they can't comprehend something like that. How do you explain grown men sodomizing CHILDREN to a 4-year old little boy, for that matter??
Not only can a child not comprehend the reasoning behind their parents actions to protect them from that kind of sick sh*t, there is absolutely no reason to expose them to that kind of knowledge. They are babies, for God's sake.

I liken it to the garden of Eden.
I can't even wrap my brain around the rage and betrayal I would feel if someone took it upon themselves to "explain" things to MY children so they would have the same degree of knowledge as their parents. In turn, only succeeding to wipe out the innocence of their childhood and only serving to leave me with the task and grief of cleaning up the colossal mess left in their wake. Thanks, but no thanks. Peddle your divisionary & diversionary wares and pander your unsolicited & unproductive advice ELSEWHERE. We want no part of your self-deluded "revolution."

I spent 9 1/2 months growing them inside MY body in the image of myself and their father. I gave birth to them. My husband and I make the sacrifices that are necessary to self when you have a child and we have a specific plan as to how best to raise our children, and we decided on that plan based on our own personal wisdom before they were even born-- WHAT to allow them to learn on their own and what to teach them ourselves. WHEN to teach them and when to let them learn through their own experiences, even if those experiences are through their mistakes.

So many people think God is the A-hole and that He wanted to keep us "ignorant", while the devil was really the savior of mankind and just got a bad wrap, because he "offered us knowledge and understanding".

What an absolute, delusional joke.

Knowledge and "enlightenment" are the glittering jewels of deception and pride in mankind's vain attempt at understanding God's creation outside of God.
"Deny Ignorance" and think about that for a while.

reply to post by SilentKoala


You Christians get serious with your ripped off creation story gone fairytale.

For a crazy bible thumper like yourself, the truth would hurt you so I will give it too you as lightly as possible.

What is the woulds oldest living modern intelligent civilization. Sumerians, proven through research and mouth to mouth through 5,000+ years.

Okay what does that prove. You might have a point.

But what is the worlds oldest known written language. Sumerians. PROVEN AS FACT.

Okay, here is a BIGGY, This next thing has been translated by professors and students of yale, cambridge, ciro, dozens if not hundreds of times. Some with better translations and then compounded into a collective understanding for a complete story. This story is is 1377 years older than the old testament. Sumerian tablets. Read it obsorb it.


History, easily verifiable and always a punch in the face. You know that subject in school that was called history, guess what it wasnt just a word. This stuff has records provable, 100% undeniable Irrevocably. TRUE.

Quit being a friggin porch monkey and start listening. Drop the haze that is over your eyes and quit saying he is real. God is not real, Jesus sure as hell aint real. Dont get me wrong, I go to church I have deep faith... IN THE CHURCH. I believe in the core values that comes with being a christian and going to church. But I dont believe the story in and of itself. Not one friggin bit.

Quick question for those who are saying that Adam and Eve were created as immortal beings: What was the purpose of the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden if they were immortal? God kicked them out of the Garden so that they couldn't eat from it and live forever. So, if you eat from it, you live forever. Yet, before they sinned they were already living forever, so the Tree of Life would have just been another tree in the garden that did nothing for them since they were already immortal.

Now, what if they had to keep eating from it to live forever and that's what made them "immortal"? Maybe the Tree of Life sustained them for a long time, but once they were kicked out, they could no longer be sustained by eating from that tree? If that is the case, then death was already in the world before they sinned. Any creature that didn't eat from that tree would die a natural death of old age.

The OP needs to be remanded over to the authorities! I happen to have it from the highest authority that the OP sold his soul to the devil. This here thread is over!






j\k...This is quite a thought-inducing thread. If I may throw in my two cents by paraphrasing Einstein...
The endless debates are boring. I want to know God's thoughts. The rest are details.

reply to post by SilentKoala


Pft. The book was written by prophets, and your interpretation is wrong. You're applying a literal interpretation to text written in prophetic language which guarantees you're going to get it wrong. The Tree of Life and Tree of Knowledge are not trees at all. Nor is water really water, nor mountains really mountains, nor islands really islands. You see but you do not percieve, you hear but do not understand. The beginning is the end and the end is the beginning.

The death that God spoke of was not the physical death. The progenitors were already gods, Satan tricked them into giving it up for knowledge and mortality and the knowledge that they became mortals. God didn't create mortals he created gods. The price for making the wrong choice was eternal death as opposed to eternal life. The root of David is the Tree of Life. This is why Yeshua said:

John 8: 44-47

44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

Knowledge without wisdom is a foolish thing.

Originally posted by stupid girl
I liken it to the garden of Eden.
I can't even wrap my brain around the rage and betrayal I would feel if someone took it upon themselves to "explain" things to MY children so they would have the same degree of knowledge as their parents. In turn, only succeeding to wipe out the innocence of their childhood and only serving to leave me with the task and grief of cleaning up the colossal mess left in their wake. Thanks, but no thanks. Peddle your divisionary & diversionary wares and pander your unsolicited & unproductive advice ELSEWHERE. We want no part of your self-deluded "revolution."

I can understand your feelings since I also have children. But, would you set up a situation for your young children in which you know they will not succeed, only to punish them for it? Would you threaten them with death? Would you curse their descendants because of their failure?

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Pft. The book was written by prophets, and your interpretation is wrong. You're applying a literal interpretation to text written is prophetic language which guarantees you're going to get it wrong. The Tree of Life and Tree of Knowledge are not trees at all. Nor is water really water, nor mountains really mountains, nor islands really islands. You see but you do not percieve, you hear but do not understand. The beginning is the end and the end is the beginning.

Ah, so you have the correct interpretation? Says who?

Do you interpret the whole creation story as prophetic or only the part of them eating the fruits?