Making progress one needs to be corrupt....?

Is it a requierment to be corruptable when serving the people in public office? If there is someone with only good intensions, can he or she make things better if willing to look the other way?

Or will such an approach make things worse.. Are there uncorruptable business people anyway... ?
Can a society thrive with only honnest people?

What do you think.

reply to post by zatara


Good post, Zatara...." Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely ". Give any person power over others and they are compelled to abuse it.....

reply to post by zatara


If pro is the opposite of con, what is the opposite of progress?

Like the above poster said, power corrupts. Period

I think a few folks go into public office straight laced and wanting to end corruption and help others. I also think that money is the most powerful motivator that exists for a lot people. Honorable intentions fall by the wayside as the promise of wealth and/or power is tasted.

Of course I think many folks go into office already corrupted and wanting to further personal agendas as well.

It's a sad fact of human nature. One has to have no need/want of wealth and or power to have a good chance of not becoming corrupted.

This is all my own opinion naturally. I always hold out hope that the majority of people are still good folks, including some that are currently serving in political offices. Maybe I am naive in that, but it would be heartbreaking to believe they were all corrupt.

The people who seek power do not deserve it.

The people who deserve power do not seek it.

Corruption is the feature that is the single hardest thing to eradicate from a society once it sets in. Its like leprosy, or rot, as its name name suggests. It spreads.

The dynamics are easy to understand. In a corrupt society you have two choices: play along, or resist. If you resist, you are killed/silenced/fired/marginalized/otherwise ejected from the system. Result: Corruption continues as if nothing has happened. IF you play along, you gain power. Result: Corruption continues to grow stronger.

See how that works?

reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

Agree with you, entirely... With regard to American politics in particular, it seems to me that unless you are very wealthy, and well connected, you have no chance of getting to the top, which does,nt seem very democratic to me.
A bit like British football... The same few teams dominate the premier league permanently, as they have the bottomless wallet to afford the best players....equally corrupt.
If I were an American citizen, I would vote for the first presidential candidate that gave his / her entire campaign fund to worthy causes...won,t happen of course... Very naive of me, I know....

reply to post by benrl


Spot on, benrl !!!

reply to post by MrJohnSmith


I would love nothing more than to see a blue collar president. I dream of it, but you are correct... It will never happen. A poor man can not run. But a poor man/woman could certainly figure out a way to balance the budget and cut a slew of wasteful spending.

How can one that has never had to struggle a day in their lives understand how to budget wisely and know the needs of the biggest voting sector they have? If one can purchase anything they want, do anything they want, anytime they want, it seems like it would be more difficult to understand how to stretch your dime into a dollar.

Your post isn't naive. Wishful thinking maybe, but I join you in it whole heartedly!

reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe


That reminds me of the mOvie Dave , where the pres is replaced by an every day joe who looks like the pres... One of the first things he does is make a balanced budget.

reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe


It doesn't matter anymore even if they started out poor by the time they get to a position where they can be president they will be subject to corruption by the wealthy. Not only the wealthy but the powerful.

Politics is the art of compromise. Not even the president has absolute power. That's why we have balance of power, not a north-korea-style dictatorship. So every politician has to pick his battles. They all learn to get along to go along.

reply to post by zatara

Corruption can be beaten, even in politics!

All you have to do is get money out of your politics and ban unfettered lobbyism.
Make your representatives income transparent, impose draconian sentences for corruption and ostracize it.
Make elections only about policy issues, content and values again and you will get real politicians.

Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

 

That reminds me of the mOvie Dave , where the pres is replaced by an every day joe who looks like the pres... One of the first things he does is make a balanced budget.

I remember that movie. I laughed. In reality any president who tried to pull that would get the Kennedy treatment before his first day in office was over.

Maybe instead of the current system for election we make all government positions like jury duty... Short term, low pay, and random selection ...

But than who'd want to do it than... Only people who really believe in their civic duty... And those to stupid to figure a valid excuse to get out of it...

And some how I think we would still be better off than we are now.

reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

Thank you. The British prime minister, David Cameron, is a former Eton ( Public school, high fees. ) boy, and is a multi millionaire, and in referring to the financial hardships currently being suffered by the British population he said: " We are all in this together " Hmmmm ! Right, I don,t think so...
The majority of British politicians who get to the top have been to Oxford / Cambridge / Eton. Unfortunately, as I see it, being " well educated " does,nt equate to use of common sense, but like the Americans, we still vote for them...

reply to post by benrl

Doesn't even need to be short term / low pay, just decent enough to keep the weak and greedy away.

Originally posted by benrl
But than who'd want to do it than... Only people who really believe in their civic duty[...]

That's exactly the type you're looking for.

Originally posted by benrl
Maybe instead of the current system for election we make all government positions like jury duty... Short term, low pay, and random selection ...

But than who'd want to do it than... Only people who really believe in their civic duty... And those to stupid to figure a valid excuse to get out of it...

And some how I think we would still be better off than we are now.

I loved that movie!

I have long thought that public office should be something one desires to do and would gladly do for free. It is a civic duty and should be considered an honorable one as well.. One is supposed to have a "higher calling" to go after a position that should be benefiting the country and the citizens that reside there. Rightfully, they should yearn to do it for the betterment of the country if not in some small way, for the world. Senators, governors, mayors, presidents, etc. etc. should either receive no salary or one that is far from lavish whether that comes from kickbacks, hand greasing, back scratching, or not.. This would weed out a lot of bad apples IMO.

Again, it's idealistic, wishful thinking. But imagine the improvements!

reply to post by zatara


Only love, only love can leave such a mark
But only love, only love can heal such a scar...

Originally posted by MrJohnSmith
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

 

Thank you. The British prime minister, David Cameron, is a former Eton ( Public school, high fees. ) boy, and is a multi millionaire, and in referring to the financial hardships currently being suffered by the British population he said: " We are all in this together " Hmmmm ! Right, I don,t think so...
The majority of British politicians who get to the top have been to Oxford / Cambridge / Eton. Unfortunately, as I see it, being " well educated " does,nt equate to use of common sense, but like the Americans, we still vote for them...

I HATE those "We're all in this together" speeches too. It's a load of horse manure that can be smelled even in another galaxy. I would like to know when the last time Obama or David Cameron pumped a tank full of gas and actually had to pay for it with their own money? When the last time was that either had to decide between paying the car payment or the electricity bill...It angers me to no end when they claim "I know how you feel".

Originally posted by FailedProphet
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

 

It doesn't matter anymore even if they started out poor by the time they get to a position where they can be president they will be subject to corruption by the wealthy. Not only the wealthy but the powerful.

Politics is the art of compromise. Not even the president has absolute power. That's why we have balance of power, not a north-korea-style dictatorship. So every politician has to pick his battles. They all learn to get along to go along.

That is how we know the system is broken. I don't think it will ever be fixed though, sadly enough.